5th Gen Caliper Install Gone Wrong?

If you work on brakes at all, I can't suggest this little guy enough:

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Products-108-System-Bleeder/dp/B000TK9FE8?ie=UTF8&hvadid=70880319923&hvdev=c&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvpone=&hvpos=1t1&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvrand=8397244977169913455&ref=pd_sl_8v7p7y9ohx_b&tag=googhydr-20

Makes working on your brakes solo much quicker and simpler. Plus, I find it much easier to run a larger volume of fluid through with confidence and ease, so it is easy to really flush things out. The snap crackle pop of the last bits of air coming out of your lines is oh so sweet.
 
I had a similar problem but mine was due to a poorly installed wheel bearing. The bearing was not sitting on the hub correctly so the brake caliper pistons where missing part of the rotor. After it was fixed the brakes were back to normal.
 
I had a super spongy pedal after my 5th gen front brake upgrade too, and couldn't get it dialed until I found this thread:



The whole thread is great, but do the 40 sloooooow pumps with the key off before trying anything else!!

It worked like a charm for me.

I bet it will work in your situation.

Here is the whole thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/132120-brakes-need-pumped-twice-work-correctly.html

There is a lot of great info in that thread, and it should be easier to search for (it took a while and I knew what words to search for).

Good luck! :cheers:

All the way to the floor slowly and let go slowly repeat 40 times.

Little update definitely the pedals feels firmer and grabs earlier then before.


Don't know what kind of witchcraft or black magic those slow presses are but the system and feel is substantially improved. Pedal is firm and initial bite is much better. Modulating braking force is also much easier now. Before it was just a dead feeling requiring substantial pedal pressure unless I double pressed. I'll do it a few more times but I am more than pleased now.

Thanks!!!!
 
Don't know what kind of witchcraft or black magic those slow presses are but the system and feel is substantially improved. Pedal is firm and initial bite is much better. Modulating braking force is also much easier now. Before it was just a dead feeling requiring substantial pedal pressure unless I double pressed. I'll do it a few more times but I am more than pleased now.

Thanks!!!!
.
AWESOME!!

The thread I got that from said in a caliper change, small bubbles can hide in the system. The slow presses with the key off let those tiny bubbles escape the nooks and crannies they can hide in.

So glad that worked!!!
 
Shouldn't the dealership thousand dollar tool take care off this problem?

Shouldn't a pressure bleeder also take care of having to pump 40 times or whatever? I assume I am missing something.

we lost brakes bc of a caliper leak, I am wondering if I should go in and rebleed. the pedal feels good though. I guess it could be better?
 
Shouldn't the dealership thousand dollar tool take care off this problem?

Shouldn't a pressure bleeder also take care of having to pump 40 times or whatever? I assume I am missing something.

we lost brakes bc of a caliper leak, I am wondering if I should go in and rebleed. the pedal feels good though. I guess it could be better?


There is a lot of confusion over this.

Here is [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]'s post, #9 in the thread I quoted earlier above.

It explains how that "thousand dollar tool at the dealership" works and also how the 40 slow pumps helps to equalize the feel, and get rid of that mushy pedal feel, too:



I think you're slightly mistaken in the procedure for bleeding the unit. There's a lot of confusion when it comes to the Hydraboost unit, its an odd system most people don't recognize or think about. I'll go into brief detail about the unit itself first.

The Hydraboost unit is a hydraulically assisted and electronically controlled unit. It can be broken down into 3 major sections; the Master Cylinder portion (built like a regular MC), the ABS Module/Solenoid Pack (This contains the brains and electronic solenoids that regulate pressure and perform ABS/VSC Functions when commanded), and the Hydraulic Accumulator Pump & Tank.

The unit is hydraulically assisted instead of vacuum assisted like most traditional systems, unfortunately a large majority of these type of systems I have worked with have a very "spongy" feel to them; I don't know if it is intentional by the engineers or just a byproduct of the extra oomph the hydraulic assistance gives.

That said, the purpose of the "depress the pedal 40 times" is two fold. First its not to build up pressure in the system like you would on a normal system. It is done with the Key OFF to purposefully deplete the system of reserve hydraulic pressure in the accumulator tank. This is a test of the hydraulic assistance section of the Hydraboost unit, it should when the key is turned ON; proceed to run the accumulator pump and build up pressure in the system, this process should take roughly 30-40sec. If the pump only runs for a few seconds, this could indicate you have not depleted the pressure properly, or the pump is weakening. Conversely if the pump continues to run for more than a minute or so, this could indicate a failure and/or leak in the hydraulic system that is bleeding pressure and it is unable to build up proper pressure (this could either mean a reduction in braking assistance or a feel of a "spongy" pedal with little to no actual braking force applied.) The second reason is for the system to refill its reserve so it can start the bleeding process from a "100% hydraulic assisted" state rather than say only half full accumulator tank.

Another thing is when bleeding the Hydraboost unit, it is required that you either use a manual bleeder box (as detailed in the .pdf that was linked, this was used prior to the introduction of the TIS Techstream Factory Scantool) or a factory capable scantool. The reason for this is because the ABS/VSC Solenoid Pack/Module attached on the side of the unit bolts DIRECTLY into the master cylinder portion and controls pressure diverted from the unit. Unlike most vehicles, when using the scantool or manual bleeder box you don't have to "pump & hold" in fact, the scantool tells you to simply press the pedal down once and hold, undo the bleeder valve and let it bleed itself until the brake fluid stream reduces to a slow trickle. The unit will utilize the combination of the accumulator pump & ABS/VSC system to self-evacuate air bubbles trapped inside of the unit and lines.

One other thing to note, is that unlike conventional brake bleeding; where you begin bleeding from the furthest brake caliper from the MC. The bleeding procedure for the Hydraboost starts with the Driver's Front Caliper (IIRC, been a year since I last did it.) The scantool tells you what to do, also another thing of importance, if you are using a manual bleeder box; you must be careful to not cycle the solenoids for more than about 10sec with a 20sec cooldown. The reason for this is because unlike normal use, when using a manual bleeder box you are turning the solenoid on or off, not pulsing it as the ABS/VSC will do naturally.

I'll see if I can get you guys some newer technical documents in regards to the system itself when I get to work this weekend or maybe this upcoming week.

Post Note- It is possible to have a failing portion of the Hydraboost unit and it NOT set a code and/or light on the dash. I had to replace my own unit in my '04 due to a failed o-ring seal inside of the master cylinder unit itself, the symptoms were similar to what the OP is talking about. We determined it was the Hydraboost unit after multiple attempts of bleeding (i.e. 4-6 times in a row and then try again in a day or two), eventually we actually took hose clamps that you would use for say vacuum lines when doing EVAP work or Smog work and clamped off all 4 caliper feed lines and then tested the braking system, we verified that that the MC was at fault when it still had a soft pedal feel even with no where for the fluid to go.
 
I'm the OP and I just realized that I never posted back with the solution to this issue. I hate it when people do that and I don't want to be that guy.

My rear brakes were definitely doing most of the work. The local dealership bled everything and gave it back with no improvement. That sort of service is pretty typical from my local dealership and unfortunately it's the only one around.

I tried what one poster suggested about pumping the brakes 40 times very, very slowly with the engine off. After following that suggestion to a T, the problem is fixed. The truck stops like it should and for the first time since I installed the 5th gen brakes I actually noticed some brake dust on the front wheels.

I don't claim to know why it works, but in my case at least it worked very well.
 
I'm the OP and I just realized that I never posted back with the solution to this issue. I hate it when people do that and I don't want to be that guy.

My rear brakes were definitely doing most of the work. The local dealership bled everything and gave it back with no improvement. That sort of service is pretty typical from my local dealership and unfortunately it's the only one around.

I tried what one poster suggested about pumping the brakes 40 times very, very slowly with the engine off. After following that suggestion to a T, the problem is fixed. The truck stops like it should and for the first time since I installed the 5th gen brakes I actually noticed some brake dust on the front wheels.

I don't claim to know why it works, but in my case at least it worked very well.

Glad it helped!!!
 
I'm the OP and I just realized that I never posted back with the solution to this issue. I hate it when people do that and I don't want to be that guy.

My rear brakes were definitely doing most of the work. The local dealership bled everything and gave it back with no improvement. That sort of service is pretty typical from my local dealership and unfortunately it's the only one around.

I tried what one poster suggested about pumping the brakes 40 times very, very slowly with the engine off. After following that suggestion to a T, the problem is fixed. The truck stops like it should and for the first time since I installed the 5th gen brakes I actually noticed some brake dust on the front wheels.

I don't claim to know why it works, but in my case at least it worked very well.


This 40 slow presses, you did it during the bleeding process, thus the air escaped through the bleeder valves, or when you had buttoned up everything?
 
This 40 slow presses, you did it during the bleeding process, thus the air escaped through the bleeder valves, or when you had buttoned up everything?

It was about a week after the brake job and everything was buttoned up.

It took me half an hour or more. I sat there and sipped a cocktail and listened to some tunes.
 
Total shots in the dark here:

Once I had an issue like this, and the threads on the caliper were letting air back into the caliper down the threads because of a machining issue. The threads were "loose". I used plumbers tape on the threads and it worked. The symptom was constant bubbles coming out of the caliper. It would never stop bubbling because the air was going down the threads.

Also, is it possible the master cylinder went dry? That can cause a bunch of problems obviously.

Sorry that the slow pumps didn't work. It worked for many of us. Hopefully the cocktail was a great one!
 
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Total shots in the dark here:

Once I had an issue like this, and the threads on the caliper were letting air back into the caliper down the threads because of a machining issue. The threads were "loose". I used plumbers tape on the threads and it worked. The symptom was constant bubbles coming out of the caliper. It would never stop bubbling because the air was going down the threads.

Also, is it possible the master cylinder went dry? That can cause a bunch of problems obviously.

Sorry that the slow pumps didn't work. It worked for many of us. Hopefully the cocktail was a great one!

Actually, it did work. I'll admit being surprised that it worked, but it definitely did.
 
I know this is an old thread, but Im curious if you actually tested the lock up of the brakes by turning off ABS, find some wet pavement and from 30mph, hit the brakes hard and see which wheels locks up first, rears or fronts. The rears should not lock up at all. They are meant to drag so the back end stays behind you.

When I put Tundra front calipers and rotors on my 3rd gen, I noticed the pedal traveled further but still felt solid and brakes stronger than the 3rd gen calipers. The master cyl is designed for the fluid volume needed by the calipers. If you are changing all four corners to 5th gen, shouldnt you also change the master?

Lastly, when I replaced all four of my 07 Sport calipers, one of the rear calipers would not seal the bleeder screw and needed replacing. You might be getting air sucked back in from the bleeder or brake line. If the 40 pumps works, its because the sustained pressure is putting the large air bubbles back into suspension in the brake fluid. Once you do that, re-bleed the brakes to remove that fluid with fresh fluid. Otherwise the air bubbles will reform once again.
 
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