5th Gen Gear Swaps??

[Jetboy]

Slow down, you are throwing multiple applications into the mix and gears are not just "gears". When I say "getting a little thin", I'm not talking about the shaft it's self, but the central mass of the pinion head. Of the two, we've had more 4.88 rear ends get busted than 4.56 on 35s. Granted, that's the FJ side of the house and a relatively small sample group (same rear end depending on years), but the people I wheeled with at the time primarily wheeled rock/limestone shelf.

If the guy is just playing in the mud, I'm sure he would be fine for the most part with the 4.88s. Then again, I doubt he'd want to take the hit at the pump from his comments, therefore we are back to 4.56s. Having as much grey in my hair and coming from aerospace manufacturing, even when I speculate, there has to be some corroborating evidence that lends to a conclusion from past experience. So with that, I bow out. If you have application specific evidence to the contrary please educate us all. I am however, done as I have very specific feelings about arguing on the interweb and I in no way want to belittle/downplay/nor discredit anyone else. Just like everyone else, I have an opinion... and you know what they say about those.

That's what I was curious about. In my experience its rare to see anything between 4.10 and 5.29. I rarely go wheeling with stock or almost stock vehicles. And my 9.5s are a LOT bigger in reality so it's pretty apples/oranges - that's an 8" on top of a 9.5" ring gear:

I think we're in agreement that there really isn't a lot of application for 4.88 gears. From my point of view, once you go past 33-34" tires, you're getting into big $ suspension upgrades and at that point the same money will buy you solid axles, 37's, and a whole new world of capability. - and probably a marginal daily driver at best.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

Yeah man, I don't have the elocker hence why I'm going the ARB air locker route. I just messaged [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] asking his experiences with his front. From what I've read researching is exactly what you have mentioned regarding how/when to use it. Just need to be careful it sounds.

Also, are you running the ARB compressor? I have the CKMA12. If you have that one, how did you mount it? I need to get a mounting plate from somewhere.

On my FJ I had room just behind the TRD air box on passenger side. The foot of the little CKSA12 kit can be re clocked so it was direct mounted where you see it in my photo... Yes dirty and used hard.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

Working from my phone...

 

[cbielat]

On my FJ I had room just behind the TRD air box on passenger side. The foot of the little CKSA12 kit can be re clocked so it was direct mounted where you see it in my photo... Yes dirty and used hard.

I have room in three places in my engine compartment. I just think I need to fab a bracket of some sorts.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

That's what I was curious about. In my experience its rare to see anything between 4.10 and 5.29. I rarely go wheeling with stock or almost stock vehicles. And my 9.5s are a LOT bigger in reality so it's pretty apples/oranges - that's an 8" on top of a 9.5" ring gear:

I think we're in agreement that there really isn't a lot of application for 4.88 gears. From my point of view, once you go past 33-34" tires, you're getting into big $ suspension upgrades and at that point the same money will buy you solid axles, 37's, and a whole new world of capability. - and probably a marginal daily driver at best.

Yes Sir, I do agree with that...

 

[Orlyg1521]

Here is what Metal Tech said about their regearing into their 2011 TE, I bought it with 35's and was getting 12-13 mpg, I switched to 285's and am getting 15-16 mpg in the city. RPM's feel fine even uphill:
The 4.56 gears we choose to do for the simple reason of keeping the 4Runner happy with engine rpm's. When you put larger tires on any vehicle it takes more revolutions for the tire to spin which equates to reduced engine rpm's. This in turn makes for poor power going uphills and reduced acceleration. With the 4.56 gears the engine rpm's will return close to stock and will drive just like it did from the factory. The ARB air locker for the front is give us maximum traction when we need it. The A-Trac works well but it does have it's limitations when you need both tires turning going up an obstacle.

 

[sigbrown1297]

First of all, i know nothing about gears. Regearing to lower rpms to improve your mpg?

I went to 285/70 and drive mostly highway for work between 70-80mph. Will this help my MPG?

 

[wfo9]

First of all, i know nothing about gears. Regearing to lower rpms to improve your mpg?

I went to 285/70 and drive mostly highway for work between 70-80mph. Will this help my MPG?

Simple answer, NO!

It helps with TQ, towing, acceleration, but not hwy MPG unless you are trying to turn really large tires (which will kill MPG anyway).

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

For someone like me, my average mixed MPG went up because I was no longer beating the piss out of the truck to try and get it out of it's own way. In other words during passing and city driving I spent a lot of time with the accelerator floored. Floored out of utter frustration. After adding the 4.56 gears, that frustration is reduced because of the increased mechanical leverage the gears offer to get the truck going. That's in a 6MT FJ mind you. I no longer have to come out of cruise control going up hills to down shift. With the Wife's 2014 TEP, I'm considering gears because the damn truck is constantly down shifting even on mild grades when in cruise control. People will argue with me (wasting their breath), but I believe these trucks are grossly underpowered stock. The little 4.0 just has too much weigh for it's available output. Demello had said that's why it took him so long to give up his 4.7 V8 runner. Even the "updated" version of the 4.0 just doesn't have it. However, gearing down does help.

On a side note, if you keep it at 70mph or less, you probably won't notice much of a highway mpg loss on a modified rig with 4.56 gears, 285 tires or larger. My Wife's TEP was only averaging 16mpg mix with only stock size E rated General AT2s. Now lifted, same tires, it has not changed much if at all.

 

[1engineer]

Simple answer, NO!

It helps with TQ, towing, acceleration, but not hwy MPG unless you are trying to turn really large tires (which will kill MPG anyway).

Larger diameter tire will help torque?

 

[sigbrown1297]

For someone like me, my average mixed MPG went up because I was no longer beating the piss out of the truck to try and get it out of it's own way. In other words during passing and city driving I spent a lot of time with the accelerator floored. Floored out of utter frustration. After adding the 4.56 gears, that frustration is reduced because of the increased mechanical leverage the gears offer to get the truck going. That's in a 6MT FJ mind you. I no longer have to come out of cruise control going up hills to down shift. With the Wife's 2014 TEP, I'm considering gears because the damn truck is constantly down shifting even on mild grades when in cruise control. People will argue with me (wasting their breath), but I believe these trucks are grossly underpowered stock. The little 4.0 just has too much weigh for it's available output. Demello had said that's why it took him so long to give up his 4.7 V8 runner. Even the "updated" version of the 4.0 just doesn't have it. However, gearing down does help.

On a side note, if you keep it at 70mph or less, you probably won't notice much of a highway mpg loss on a modified rig with 4.56 gears, 285 tires or larger. My Wife's TEP was only averaging 16mpg mix with only stock size E rated General AT2s. Now lifted, same tires, it has not changed much if at all.

I notice the same thing when I'm accelerating on the onramp and maintaining speed on cruise control when going up a hills.

What are the disadvantages of going with 4.56?

How much id this gonna set me back?

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

I notice the same thing when I'm accelerating on the onramp and maintaining speed on cruise control when going up a hills.

What are the disadvantages of going with 4.56?

How much id this gonna set me back?

The only disadvantage in my opinion is based on YOUR daily driving. Meaning if you do more hwy than city driving it's likely that you will see a decrease in MPG. Because of my feelings about the available power in these trucks, it would be worth a few MPG so as I'd be happier with the truck. That is VERY subjective. I saw an INCREASE in MPG because I was beating the piss out of the truck in city driving to get it to "go". No longer now with the gears. You are running 285/70/17 tires. I'm of the opinion that 4.56 gears are perfect for a that size tire as you get OE or actually better acceleration. Others might say 34"/35" tires because it puts you closer to the original ratio for lack of better words (the math works out).

As far as cost, I suggest whether you do the work yourself or not going with East Coast Gear Supply's loaded front clam shell and rear third (talk to Chase). They know what they are doing, have GREAT customer service, and you can't beat their core policy. More importantly, setting up gears is an art that should not be trusted to your average shop. I say this from a couple decades of experience in observing upset customers due to improperly setup gears/failures. IIRC for just the gears your looking at about $1500 including the return label for the cores. If you really crawl the truck, that's a good time for an ARB front locker as well (I did this). However, be honest with yourself. If you don't really crawl the truck in rocks and the such often, save yourself the extra $1k.

 

[TravelWest01]

4.56 Awsome

I just put 4.56 in, along with lockers. While it set me back 5K, I now have significant new capabilities. Just finished a 350 mile off road trip in Utah/Arizona and the 4.56 were perfect. When I was in 4lo I could go down to 1st and just creep down over most ledges as I dropped down into washes without touching brake. When climbing, 1st or 2nd gave me a very precise speed control, just eased up over all obstacles. Never needed the lockers, in part because speed was so well controlled. On the road the 4.56 does give some more power, and my mpg is about same. I run a top speed of about 75 on the highway, but it is fine when passing at 80. Would I run at 100, no, but I didn't do that prior to re-gearing anyways! I went with a local shop here in SoCal, Yotamasters, they do a lot of re-gearing and are seen as one of the best shops around. Looking back now, no regrets at all on re-gearing!

 

[sigbrown1297]

I just put 4.56 in, along with lockers. While it set me back 5K, I now have significant new capabilities. Just finished a 350 mile off road trip in Utah/Arizona and the 4.56 were perfect. When I was in 4lo I could go down to 1st and just creep down over most ledges as I dropped down into washes without touching brake. When climbing, 1st or 2nd gave me a very precise speed control, just eased up over all obstacles. Never needed the lockers, in part because speed was so well controlled. On the road the 4.56 does give some more power, and my mpg is about same. I run a top speed of about 75 on the highway, but it is fine when passing at 80. Would I run at 100, no, but I didn't do that prior to re-gearing anyways! I went with a local shop here in SoCal, Yotamasters, they do a lot of re-gearing and are seen as one of the best shops around. Looking back now, no regrets at all on re-gearing!

This is my DD and I travel a lot mostly highway going bout 75 - 80mph.

So regearing would help with towing/loaded rig and initial acceleration, but once you get up to highway cruising speeds, its not going to benefit me.

I also don't do any crawling and don't see myself doing anything crazy so it doesnt' sound like this would benefit me much.

 

[wfo9]

Larger diameter tire will help torque?

Obviously not.

I meant it HELPS with tq, acceleration, towing....

not mpg on the hwy, UNLESS you are turning really big tires, which will result in overall poor mpg no matter what you do.

Big tires allow for much improved traction and angle of attack on obstacles offroad... they are about the worst thing you can possibly do for efficiency/mpg on the road. Tradeofffs... as they say.

I really like my 4.56 gears for all the reasons mentioned. They are a dream off-road. There is a tradeoff with mpg and high speed comfort. If you stay under 75mph (with 285ish tires) its pretty much all good.

The 4.0 seems to really like to rev to make power (VVT-i...), so it is a big difference in drivability.

 

[cbielat]

I'm picking my truck up on Monday from having the ARB rear locker and 4.56 gears installed. Pretty excited to see how it feels.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

I'm picking my truck up on Monday from having the ARB rear locker and 4.56 gears installed. Pretty excited to see how it feels.

On my FJ, wish I had the ARB in the rear to complement the one in the front. I have the OE rear e-locker and after the "sublimeness" of the ARB in the front, the OE locker is a freakin pain in the ass. To me it's like Apple to Microsoft... the ARB always works. Works instantly. Turns off instantly, and ultra reliable. Whereas the OE e-locker frequently needs a rolling start to engage. Takes usually a roll to disengage, and much like Microsoft must be turned on and off somewhat frequently in order to stay somewhat stable (reliable).

 

[cbielat]

On my FJ, wish I had the ARB in the rear to complement the one in the front. I have the OE rear e-locker and after the "sublimeness" of the ARB in the front, the OE locker is a freakin pain in the ass. To me it's like Apple to Microsoft... the ARB always works. Works instantly. Turns off instantly, and ultra reliable. Whereas the OE e-locker frequently needs a rolling start to engage. Takes usually a roll to disengage, and much like Microsoft must be turned on and off somewhat frequently in order to stay somewhat stable (reliable).

Thanks for the info. I was going to throw in the air locker up front as well but was a bit turned off after reading about how careful one must be with a front locked ifs set up. For what I've been doing, I feel the ATRAC will help enough paired with the locked rear. Seeing as how the front diff was going to already be open while doing the gears, I figured it'd be the best time to put the locker in the front…but I didn't. How did you feel about having it up front. Obviously it gained better traction in circumstances but did you ever feel an "Oh S**t" moment while the front was locked?

 

[bimrunner]

Thanks for the info. I was going to throw in the air locker up front as well but was a bit turned off after reading about how careful one must be with a front locked ifs set up. For what I've been doing, I feel the ATRAC will help enough paired with the locked rear. Seeing as how the front diff was going to already be open while doing the gears, I figured it'd be the best time to put the locker in the front…but I didn't. How did you feel about having it up front. Obviously it gained better traction in circumstances but did you ever feel an "Oh S**t" moment while the front was locked?

I think sometimes people get a little freaked out about front lockers and ifs. I have locked mine numerous times and never felt the OMG moment. I know what I have and its weaknesses. I know when I need to back out and take a better line and when locking up will be sufficient. What you want to avoid is locked and heavy torque on the cv angles. Just the same weakness that is there all the time anyway but could be a lot easier to break if you are locked up. I don't freak out when I need to lock up, I stay level headed and assess the situation and what is most likely necessary. I don't rush and I only use it when I need it. I'm very glad I have it.

 

[shufly09]

Take it from someone who has the ARB front/e-locker rear... instant satisfaction. ARB instantly locks/unlocks. The OE e-locker requires a little rolling distance more times than not to engage/disengage. Also remember that you have to be mindful of the steering angle in front when locked up and gassing it. Bad things can happen.

I'm also about to re-gear (was thinking 4.88, but this thread has me really considering 4.56) and was thinking about adding a front ARB air locker since I already have the e-locker in the rear. Is it reasonably possible to switch out the OEM e-locker with the ARB air locker (ie just a swap)? Is it worth getting the rear air locker as well?