5th Gen Supercharger Inquiry - Magnuson's Response

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[MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION] needs to know about this!!!!

:decision:

Just... can't... help... myself.
 
Well. The biggest challenge for them is to somehow piggieback of the Toyota ECU to override/bypass the current tuning with one for the supercharger. After that, everything's just mechanical. Maybe someone could ask them how that goes.

Anyway...inbeforelocked [emoji2]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
wfo9 said:
Just like there is no market for a snorkle for the 5th gen... right LOL. Funny they can't make them fast enough....

35hp out of a supercharger? That is beyond conservative. I would guess 330hp at a minumum.. probably closer to 350 and it would drive much better than that na v8.

Also the 1grfe dual vvti motor, is used all over the world... There seems to be a huge market. Will it be reliable with the pistons and rods is the question.
Click to expand...

The 1GR version for the ?-'15 Tacoma is 305/330. There's no meaningful benefit to VVTi once its boosted. So I don't know of any reason to think we'll see anything more than the other 1Gr 4.0L in output. Toyota was claiming 345/340 way back when at SEMA. I don't see it. Not that it's not possible, but it seems unlikely unless they're using more boost.

However - I personally wouldn't much care about the peak hp. Actually I don't care at all. I'd LOVE 250hp - if it were at 2500 rpms. If the supercharger can even produce 150hp at 2500rpms it'll be a huge win.

Maybe it'll be a hot item if the price is right. At $4k it's compelling. At $7,500 I think sales will be single digits.
 
If it does go live, they will of course charge that pretty penny (over 4k), as regardless of rational thought....its always about:

"Oh shit, did you see Timmy got that Super Charger on his 5th gen?"

"Yea, saw it out on the trails doing wheelies and shit!"

"Welp, gotta go get all Pokemon on that shit then!"

(sound of credit cards getting maxed out all over the country)
 
sinks88 said:
If it does go live, they will of course charge that pretty penny (over 4k), as regardless of rational thought....its always about:

"Oh shit, did you see Timmy got that Super Charger on his 5th gen?"

"Yea, saw it out on the malls doing wheelies and shit!"

"Welp, gotta go get all Pokemon on that shit then!"

(sound of credit cards getting maxed out all over the country)
Click to expand...

FIFY.:wacko:
 
i would love to see a kit under $5k but realistically i'm betting on $6500k. which i will gladly purchase if it looks good and performs. i'm having flashbacks to my old lightning! i dont think i would ever stop smiling if laying into the throttle produced a nice whine under the hood of my 4runner!
 
The problem with going much higher is that a 1UZ/GM5.3 swap starts to look good as an alternative even if you ignore the GX - which would be my first swap choice. Even a used LC200 starts to creep into the mix. And there's not a chance in hell that the SC will make 381hp/401tq. Plus you get a shit ton of other upgrades too like stronger axles, better suspension design, luxury interior, etc. I'm not a huge fan of the size of the LC200, but if a SC total installed price was $10k, I'd look pretty hard at one as an alternative.
 
Jetboy said:
The 1GR version for the ?-'15 Tacoma is 305/330. There's no meaningful benefit to VVTi once its boosted. So I don't know of any reason to think we'll see anything more than the other 1Gr 4.0L in output. Toyota was claiming 345/340 way back when at SEMA. I don't see it. Not that it's not possible, but it seems unlikely unless they're using more boost.

However - I personally wouldn't much care about the peak hp. Actually I don't care at all. I'd LOVE 250hp - if it were at 2500 rpms. If the supercharger can even produce 150hp at 2500rpms it'll be a huge win.

Maybe it'll be a hot item if the price is right. At $4k it's compelling. At $7,500 I think sales will be single digits.
Click to expand...
There is always benefit to valve timing. What works for bumping power NA (on a non race motor) also bumps power on FI. The only time you run into problems is on a cam profile with tremendous overlap and you start loosing dynamic cylinder pressure with the valves being open too long for boost. I really doubt the cam profile of the 1grfe or the VVTI advance introduces anything at that level. It's the equivalent of having a better flowing head which will produce more power.... BUT... the pistons are lighter and the rods are weaker on the dual vvti motor. So that will limit the power output... then there is the fuel system. The kit would obviously have bigger injectors, but hard to say what the fuel pump itself can support. With a supercharged motor.. you have quite a bit of parasitic loss. So even making 350hp.. the fuel requirement are more like 400ish. When the fuel gets hot... its actually hard to build a fuel system that can maintain good pressure. I've built quite a few FI motors making huge power. The motors were easy, the fuel systems were a PITA.
 
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slipnslide said:
Well. The biggest challenge for them is to somehow piggieback of the Toyota ECU to override/bypass the current tuning with one for the supercharger. After that, everything's just mechanical. Maybe someone could ask them how that goes.

Anyway...inbeforelocked [emoji2]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

They supposedly got the keys to the castle when they purchased the TRD line.
 
Vinsil said:
Is it though? I mean...is it really more power with how much a GX weighs?

And it's fugly. :sick:
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The GX is quicker to 0-60 than the 4R by 0.1s stock. Add some tires to both and I think that gap increases. The V8 definitely has the upper hand in the torque curve, and when you're driving the GX you feel that low end power passing and accelerating. If that V8 ever showed up in the 4R it would be a rocket with the 4R being lighter.
 
MTN4RNR said:
If that V8 ever showed up in the 4R it would be a rocket with the 4R being lighter.
Click to expand...

And you know it would sell. I would honestly bet that if Toyota put a V8 option in the TRD Off Road they would have a good "problem" on their hands. As it is, the 4Runner has kind of taken the place the Land Cruiser once held. Toss an 8 in the 4Runner, and that'd cement it as having taken on the mantle.
 
wfo9 said:
There is always benefit to valve timing. What works for bumping power NA (on a non race motor) also bumps power on FI. The only time you run into problems is on a cam profile with tremendous overlap and you start loosing dynamic cylinder pressure with the valves being open too long for boost. I really doubt the cam profile of the 1grfe or the VVTI advance introduces anything at that level. It's the equivalent of having a better flowing head which will produce more power.... BUT... the pistons are lighter and the rods are weaker on the dual vvti motor. So that will limit the power output... then there is the fuel system. The kit would obviously have bigger injectors, but hard to say what the fuel pump itself can support. With a supercharged motor.. you have quite a bit of parasitic loss. So even making 350hp.. the fuel requirement are more like 400ish. When the fuel gets hot... its actually hard to build a fuel system that can maintain good pressure. I've built quite a few FI motors making huge power. The motors were easy, the fuel systems were a PITA.
Click to expand...

Well... all else equal dual VVTi might make some difference. But if you can vary boost - intake valves basically don't matter. Exhaust valves pretty much don't matter either way for power at lower rpms - they are more for higher rpm potential. The old 1GR isn't meaningfully different until near peak hp. Even NA dual VVTi is essentially only a high RPM benefit. For energy efficiency they also make a difference. I don't think varying the timing will have any benefit to this engine's power potential with FI once you assume the ability to vary boost. It eliminates the intake benefits and other factors limit rpm. So I wouldn't expect any more power than the old 1GR. And as you mentioned the internals are weaker - which is really the limiting factor for power output. As such IMO the only way we'll see more than 305hp is adding more boost and taking the risks associated with it on weaker internals, or running up to 6500rpms and making a paper peak with no usable benefit.
 
MTN4RNR said:
The GX is quicker to 0-60 than the 4R by 0.1s stock. Add some tires to both and I think that gap increases. The V8 definitely has the upper hand in the torque curve, and when you're driving the GX you feel that low end power passing and accelerating. If that V8 ever showed up in the 4R it would be a rocket with the 4R being lighter.
Click to expand...

LOL...rocket might be a stretch. It's not going to be a chipped Explorer Sport, X5M, or modified Range Rover but it would certainly help. Also, FI is preferable for anyone at altitude as a blown 6 will kill an NA 8 when you get higher up.
 
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Jetboy said:
Well... all else equal dual VVTi might make some difference. But if you can vary boost - intake valves basically don't matter. Exhaust valves pretty much don't matter either way for power at lower rpms - they are more for higher rpm potential. The old 1GR isn't meaningfully different until near peak hp. Even NA dual VVTi is essentially only a high RPM benefit. For energy efficiency they also make a difference. I don't think varying the timing will have any benefit to this engine's power potential with FI once you assume the ability to vary boost. It eliminates the intake benefits and other factors limit rpm. So I wouldn't expect any more power than the old 1GR. And as you mentioned the internals are weaker - which is really the limiting factor for power output. As such IMO the only way we'll see more than 305hp is adding more boost and taking the risks associated with it on weaker internals, or running up to 6500rpms and making a paper peak with no usable benefit.
Click to expand...

Better exhaust and intake flow are still extremely critical. You have to keep the boost really low on these types of setups because the inter-coolers are tiny and not very efficient due to packaging constraints.

Detonation is what kills a motor with boost (especially one with cast pistons and rods). If you can keep enough fuel in it and keep the boost low enough, it should work fine... but we are just guessing at this point.
 
My buddy is dropping off his truck this month with Magnuson. It's going to happen but I have no idea of cost or performance numbers.
 
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