'89 SAS Lifted 4Runner Story...

[sweetbeats]

So I apologize in advance...this is likely to be one of those monster threads that lasts for years with many months of inactivity here and there..and this is a monster thread opener. But my wife's 4Runner has sort of adopted me and I want to make it and keep it "right"...we've got a lot of adventuring to do. I'm no spring chicken to automotive repair among other things...I've rebuilt an engine before and a cylinder head or two...and I know how to run a metal lathe and mill and I can weld, though its been decades since I've used stick, but the modified off-road thing is new to me...not that it hasn't been of interest for a great many years. The first vehicle I can remember really, really wanting at the age of 14 was Marty McFly's Toyota pickup in Back to the Future. So zoom ahead a few decades and at least the Toyota part lined up.

Here she is...this is from the other night...blew the cobwebs off and took it out simply go somewhere we'd never been...wife, infant daughter and dog are inside:



The long and the short of it: this 1989 4Runner DX was purchased used as a stock manual trans IFS 22RE truck by my wife after it had been rode hard and put up wet...my wife's ex picked it out...I don't think she would have gone for it had it not been at night...she didn't really get to see it before buying it. But she always wanted one, and so it was. The exterior isn't bad...there's some normal rot in the tailgate at the base of the window (I think there are parts missing there), a dented front driver's side fender, and we had some rear fender rot repaired. Other than that it is pretty rust-free and straight. So its pretty good, but not too good. The interior is rough...hope to address that some day. It spent some years sitting under a forest of evergreen trees here in Oregon. Mold was growing on everything inside. The carpet is trashed as are the front seats and door panels. Perfect for the dog.

Its got 243,000 miles on it.

The steering gear and maybe pump leak and sound like a whale in heat. The transmission sounds like the Zipper at the state fair when you let off the gas in 3rd or 5th, though it shifts through and stays engaged in all gears no problem. Its got newer injector seals, distributor cap, rotor, wires and plugs...I also put a new radiator and coolant hoses in. Its got A/C but its all disconnected and looks like it was pulled up from the Titanic...would love to just gut the A/C stuff out of it and save the weight someday. We also had some work done to it keep the idle stable. I really need to replace all the vacuum lines and I'd love to look into an EGR delete. I need to clean the air filter and replace the fuel filter...preventative maintenance. It puffs a little blue smoke when its first started, but it runs and idles like a champ and cruises down the highway with plenty of get-up-and go for my taste in spite of the big tires...runs like a champ really...amazing.

Not long after my wife got it along came new 15" rims and 35" rubber. That didn't fit so good with the stock suspension. Along came a cheap lift kit and I understand a leaf or two or maybe a spring mount or something broke, so my wife's ex got his way on her dime and started converting it for rock crawling...In went the solid axle swap, looks like a 5" IFS Eliminator Solid Axle Swap Kit, and according to paperwork a set of Trail Gear rear leaf springs. What my wife's ex lacks in a great many areas he makes up for with his metal fabricating and welding skills So that's a plus.

I read this thread end to end and it was a great education:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/classic-t4rs/179758-%2A%2Adone-%2A%2A1988-sas-build-need-advice-beginning.html

So with that education I took a closer look...Here's how it looks from the front:





Now, I'm going to butcher the terminology so please forgive me...the cross-member under the front of the frame...the one with the spring mounts...I don't know if that came with the Eliminator kit...I think the ex may have fabricated that...but he welded it all the way across under the frame. :cheers: I haven't looked yet but I expect he welded all the way across on the back side too. There are drop links at the other end of the springs for mounts. The front and rear diffs were re-geared...I don't know what ratio was used...would like to figure that out. It has Warn hubs in the front. I'm not yet sure if the front diff was spooled. The ex spooled the rear diff. Yes its kind of a pain in the ass with those big tires. Its on my list eventually to put some sort of locker in the back. I'm totally fine with the idea of the front being spooled if that's the case. I mean, really...is there any reason why you wouldn't want the front locked when you put it in 4WD?

The front axle looks like it was set forward...Compared to other pictures I've seen of lifted 4Runners it looks "right". What do you guys think? What's the easiest way to verify this?



Bilstein shocks with the Eliminator shock mounts...



And the steering gear looks like maybe it was pushed forward? I think that's about as far forward as you could go...but I can't tell if the mounting was reinforced. How can I determine that? what do I look for? And the system leaks and sounds pretty unhappy constantly...I need help with what to do there. I think its going to need a new steering gear at the least.



I had somebody comment on the pinion angle at the front...like an "I'm not so sure you're going to want to put it in the 4-wheel drive" sort of comment. I have reason to believe my wife's ex may have cobbled the front driveshaft. Can anybody help me chase down if it is okay or if there is work to do there?



Moving to the rear...this is where its really unfinished...no shocks...I can't even find shock mounts anywhere. I need help with what to do here. And the lift blocks...are they okay there? And all the e-brake stuff is unfinished...




To be continued...

 

[sweetbeats]

The rear pinion angle looks good...the axle was rotated. But I don't know if it is okay up at the transfer case. :/



So it needs work, but I found this old picture just after the swap and lift was done and it'll do what all that work was intended to achieve:



And one last question: I read somewhere the transfer case is chain driven? Is that right? If so is that a problem?

 

[Dropzone]

I don't see any extra holes in the frame, steering box appear be stock location

Front drive they used a tractor style PTO slip joint so it must clack like crazy

Transfer case: look on back chain drive have 7 bolts, gear drive have 5 on the rear output shaft cover

Front spring hanger looks home built and sky heigh with that extra piece of tubing stuck between it and the stock cossmember. If the thing drives ok your front pinion angle is probably ok but that extra tubing in there IMO is contributing to your almost vertical shackle angle.
With that much steel on the front mount it puts stress on the front of the frame. I would either take out the extra piece of box tubing or brace the front hanger if you guys intend to use the truck. Heck my frame on my old 81 cracked using a trail gear hanger. It was a PITA to fix and brace later

Truck sits too high for my tastes. Those toyos are a heavy beast. Everyone ends up with them because Schwamb pimps the crap out of them

Tho

 

[sweetbeats]

[MENTION=101372]Dropzone[/MENTION] thanks much for the reply and info!

don't see any extra holes in the frame, steering box appear be stock location

Well I’ll have to look closer...because I thought it was important to push the steering gear as far forward as possible when doing a lifted SAS setup like this and there’s no way the steering gear could be any further forward. Hmm...

Front drive they used a tractor style PTO slip joint so it must clack like crazy

Oh geez I knew that drive shaft looked like *something* but I couldn’t put my finger on it...yep...I think that’s what that is. I don’t know if it clacks like crazy or not because I haven’t put the 4WD to serious use until I can determine if it’s safe to use based on the pinion angles. Does anybody have any advice on how to determine what the safe limit is for those angles? I betcha there’s a custom driveshaft in my future.

Transfer case: look on back chain drive have 7 bolts, gear drive have 5 on the rear output shaft cover

Okay, cool. Thanks. So mine has 7 bolts, so chain drive. What does that mean? Is that an inferior t-case?

Front spring hanger looks home built and sky heigh with that extra piece of tubing stuck between it and the stock cossmember.

It looks like the IFS Eliminator swap kit comes with a similar front hanger, just not as much lift because it’s straight across instead of angled like mine...see here:

If the thing drives ok your front pinion angle is probably ok but that extra tubing in there IMO is contributing to your almost vertical shackle angle.

Well, like I said I don’t know if drives okay (I assume you mean in 4WD) because we were warned the pinion angle might be too much. How can we tell? And sorry but is the shackle the hardware that straps the axle to the leaf spring? How do you measure the angle?

With that much steel on the front mount it puts stress on the front of the frame. I would either take out the extra piece of box tubing or brace the front hanger if you guys intend to use the truck. Heck my frame on my old 81 cracked using a trail gear hanger. It was a PITA to fix and brace later

The hanger is braced already. Not the meatiest bracing, but there is some as well as a couple decent beads of weld on the backside of the factory crossmember and the custom spring hanger. See here:

Truck sits too high for my tastes. Those toyos are a heavy beast. Everyone ends up with them because Schwamb pimps the crap out of them

To be honest I’d prefer it be a bit less too...the ex had a thing about being bigger/taller/faster than the other guy. But it seems to me it would be a fairly involved project to lower it. The back end would be easy...pull the lift blocks out, right? But the front would be a lot more involved.

[EDIT] I think the roof of the truck sits at about 79” on the 35” tires, sooo...that’s, like...a 10” lift? Stock height is 66.5”?

 

[Dropzone]

I was wrong about there being an extra piece of box tubing in the front, it is all part of the front spring hanger..over built for sure. Lowering the front would be a pain reworking the hanger. You could swap out springs

 

[Dropzone]

I was wrong about there being an extra piece of box tubing in the front, it is all part of the front spring hanger..over built for sure. Lowering the front would be a pain reworking the hanger. You could swap out springs

It is important to have the steering box as far forward as you can, but looking at your pic again it appears to be the stock location as indicated by the upper mount

And I was backwards(wrong) about transfer case .7 bolts is gear drive 5 bolts for chain drive. I have both on the floor of my garage I should have known

 

[SCZFZJ]

How does it handle on the highway? Can you drive it to the trail and back?

 

[sweetbeats]

How does it handle on the highway? Can you drive it to the trail and back?

Absolutely. Just got back from a 100 mile round-trip run to pick up some furniture...most of it on the freeway...truck cruises easy at 70+mph, tracks straight, goes where I point it...doesn’t wander...It’s like driving a car as far as the steering is concerned. You can definitely feel there aren’t any shocks yet at the back end...jiggle over sharp bumps, wallow over big bumps but it’s not too bad...and of course the spooled rear end creates its own set of issues but they’re manageable.

[MENTION=101372]Dropzone[/MENTION] earlier you remarked about the “almost vertical shackle angle” at the front. It’s more like 80 degrees not 90 degrees FWIW...definitely not vertical. Although maybe 80 degrees is considered almost vertical. I don’t know.

[EDIT] I meant to include above I really don’t notice any bump-steer either.

 

[4runner_kid]

I would look into plating the front frame from firewall forward.

 

[sweetbeats]

Update...

So I jacked up the front end, locked both hubs and when I spin one wheel the other one doesn’t move, so the front is not spooled/locked, right?

With manual hubs there’s no reason to put a locker in the front right? Just spool it?

And can somebody help me figure out the ring and pinion ratio? I’m turning the wheel one time around and trying to count the number of driveshaft rotations but it seems like it ends up in a different place every time, and even at that the drive shaft is only spinning about 2.75 times and there’s NO WAY that’s right...I know it was re-geared, it that would be the wrong way withthise 35” tires. It drives like it has stock rubber on it.

[MENTION=101372]Dropzone[/MENTION] you are sure right about that janky front drive shaft...that garbage solution clacks like crazy even just manually rotation the front wheel by hand. What a joke. Custom driveshaft goes on the list. Geez.

[EDIT] There’s a pair of ring and pinion sets with all the 4Runner stuff in the barn, 7 tooth pinion and 41 tooth ring. Do you just divide the number of pinion teeth into the number of ring teeth to get the ratio? Maybe it wasn’t regeared? That’s...geez. 5.85 final drive??

 

[4runner_kid]

So I jacked up the front end, locked both hubs and when I spin one wheel the other one doesn’t move, so the front is not spooled/locked, right?

Sounds like a open diff to me.

[MENTION=101372]Dropzone[/MENTION] you are sure right about that janky front drive shaft...that garbage solution clacks like crazy even just manually rotation the front wheel by hand. What a joke. Custom driveshaft goes on the list. Geez.

I had a square driveshaft last longer then anything else on the truck. When mine would clank i would take it apart and pack it full of grease. The noise would stop.

 

[4runner_kid]

Transfer cases that use a chain to connect the front drive are called "chain drive" style transfer cases. Transfer cases that do not have a chain and use direct gear contact are called "gear drive" transfer cases. Transfer cases installed into trucks with automatic transmission, and/or V6 engines are usually chain drive style. Some later model 4Runners with a manual transmission and a w58 transmission also have a chain drive case. Determining if a transfer case is chain or gear driven within this year range is easy to do by looking at the rear cover of the case and counting the number of bolts holding the cover in place. If the cover has 7 bolts (as shown in photo) it is a gear driven case. If the rear cover has 5 bolts then it is a chain drive style case. At this time Trail-Gear does not support any of the chain drive applications.

 

[sweetbeats]

Transfer cases that use a chain to connect the front drive are called "chain drive" style transfer cases. Transfer cases that do not have a chain and use direct gear contact are called "gear drive" transfer cases. Transfer cases installed into trucks with automatic transmission, and/or V6 engines are usually chain drive style. Some later model 4Runners with a manual transmission and a w58 transmission also have a chain drive case. Determining if a transfer case is chain or gear driven within this year range is easy to do by looking at the rear cover of the case and counting the number of bolts holding the cover in place. If the cover has 7 bolts (as shown in photo) it is a gear driven case. If the rear cover has 5 bolts then it is a chain drive style case. At this time Trail-Gear does not support any of the chain drive applications.

Thanks for the additional info. Dropzone helped me verify my t-case is gear driven; 7-bolt rear pinion cover. BTW mine has the W56 transmission.

Any reason not to just spoil the front diff if I want to be able to wheel with the front diff locked and I’ve got manual hubs? I mean, why do people put lockers on the front? Why would you ever want to be in 4WD and not have the front locked?

And I’m really curious about figuring out what my third member ratio is, and verifying the ratio of the ring and pinion sets I have in the barn.

 

[Dropzone]

T

Any reason not to just spoil the front diff if I want to be able to wheel with the front diff locked and I’ve got manual hubs? I mean, why do people put lockers on the front? Why would you ever want to be in 4WD and not have the front locked?

any chances of need to street the drive the truck during the winter and needing 4WD? if so any locker besides a selectable (unlocked) has a tendency to want to go straight even with wheels turned on slippery stuff. I have an aussie up front and it makes winter driving on the road interesting the few times we get snow/ice around PDX and I DD the 4runner. Eventually I would like to have a locker I can unlock- HP ARB would be nice

T



And I’m really curious about figuring out what my third member ratio is, and verifying the ratio of the ring and pinion sets I have in the barn.

for the set in the barn: count the teeth on the ring gear and count the teeth on the pinion, divide ring gear by pinion ..
for the set on the truck you can try putting it on jackstands, rotate the tire one revolution and count how many times the d/s turns...sort of subjective IMO

edit:
just saw this in one of your posts above

[EDIT] There’s a pair of ring and pinion sets with all the 4Runner stuff in the barn, 7 tooth pinion and 41 tooth ring. Do you just divide the number of pinion teeth into the number of ring teeth to get the ratio? Maybe it wasn’t regeared? That’s...geez. 5.85 final drive??

my guess is 5.71's
if you truck drives and accelerates OK you probably have 5.29's

 

[4runner_kid]

Any reason not to just spoil the front diff if I want to be able to wheel with the front diff locked and I’ve got manual hubs? I mean, why do people put lockers on the front? Why would you ever want to be in 4WD and not have the front locked?

All a locker does is spin both tire's instead of one. So you don't need a locker in the front to have 4wd. So if there is no locker in the front then only one tire will spin.

I prefer a selectable locker in the front for winter driving in 4wd. Plus having a selectable locker in the front always makes it easier to turn cause you can turn it off.

 

[sweetbeats]

Thanks guys for the info on the front locker. So the way I have it setup right now would be good for inclimate weather street driving which is one way we want to use the Runner, though it doesn’t happen often here in this part of Oregon, but if we were going to do any serious wheeling or crawling a front locker would be the ticket. Same goes for the rear then too...right? With the rear end spooled as it is now if we were driving on street in snow/ice it would try to plow straight ahead, yes?

As a related aside is there such a thing as a manual locker (vs air or electronic) to save money? I don’t mind hoppin our to switch stuff...
[MENTION=101372]Dropzone[/MENTION] thanks for the feedback on the loose ring and pinion sets. I do have the Runner sitting up on jack stands in the front right now and I did the exercise again where I turn a wheel one time around and count the number of times the driveshaft spins and it is only 2.75 times.

 

[Dropzone]

Yep, that's why I have always felt the method was pretty subjective. I have never had luck with it and others swear by it.

 

[sweetbeats]

Well it was bugging me why I was getting inconsistent or unexpected results trying to determine my final drive ratio by turning a wheel and counting the driveshaft rotations...then I realized I should be hand-turning the driveshaft and counting number of rotations needed to turn the wheels one time around. Is there a standard ring a pinion ratio between 4.75 and 5.00?

And another comment on my janky front driveshaft...the driveshaft is only mounted to the pinion with two bolts...only two of the four holes on that jury-rigged thing line up so that’s all my wife’s ex installed. There’s a bit of work to do there.

And a self correction...in the first post I said there were Warn manual hubs up front...not sure why I thought that...they are the factory Aisin hubs that were probably original to the second-hand axle that was purchased for the SAS swap.

 

[4runner_kid]

You can always get some triple drilled flanges for the transfer case and front pinion.

 

[sweetbeats]

I saw something like that online today. So yeah...then it’s just a matter of removing the pinion nuts, pulling the existing flanges, and then installing the adapter flanges, right?