97 4runner 3.4 timing problem

[GunslingerT4R]

I did my TB and water pump today had everything lined up at TDC and it will not start. I thought possibly I didn't line it up 100 percent but confirmed after taking everything back out. Both cams and the crank are lined up at top dead center. Is there a way to tell if I'm 180 degrees off time?

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[thecole1098]

Rotate the crank around 2 times and confirm the cams still line up when the crank is at 0 on the timing cover. What exactly do you mean won’t start? Just keeps cranking and sounds like it has no spark?

 

[GunslingerT4R]

It sounds like it wants to start but doesn't. I rotated it a few times around, I tried unplugging the crank timing sensor? And cranking it for 10 seconds and it still didn't start. Just keeps cranking until it drains the battery down. Even hooked up a charge to it and another car with jumper cables

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[thecole1098]

Well it won’t start without that lol. It’s possible the crank and or cam sensor could be bad. Try to see if you have any pending or active codes using a scanner.

 

[nissanh]

Before you remove the belt, did you get the cams to the notch marked on the engine and crank sprocket dot to match the oil pump dot?

 

[GunslingerT4R]

Well it won’t start without that lol. It’s possible the crank and or cam sensor could be bad. Try to see if you have any pending or active codes using a scanner.

I had someone tell me to try it without the sensor, he said it could act as a re set? I'll see about a scanner

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[GunslingerT4R]

Before you remove the belt, did you get the cams to the notch marked on the engine and crank sprocket dot to match the oil pump dot?

Why would removing the belt with the cams lined up matter?

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[thecole1098]

Ya it shouldn’t matter if removing the old belt and getting a new one on, although it should’ve been in time anyway before removing regardless. As long as the new belt marks lined up with the sprockets you should be good.

 

[GunslingerT4R]

There were no marks on the old belt and no marks on the new belt. Can this even be 180 degrees out?

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[TheDurk]

There were no marks on the old belt and no marks on the new belt. Can this even be 180 degrees out?

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No, it can't. That was something that could happen when the distributor was geared to the crank to fire every second rotation at TDC on Cylinder 1. That hard gearing of ignition timing does not exist here. The link between ignition timing and valve timing is done by the crank and cam sensors, so there is no way to set this up 180 degrees out. If you try, the ECU will outsmart you.

 

[GunslingerT4R]

So any idea what my problem is?

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[TheDurk]

So any idea what my problem is?

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Well, please forgive me, but there's lot's of dumb stuff (one of which I've done) you can do on this job that will cause this:

Bad connection to sensors
forget key on crank
put sprocket on backwards
break a tooth on cam or crank sprocket
f up the plug wires (if you messed with those, 1-4, 2-5, 3-6 is right)

...just off the top of my head. If you want to take a pic of cam marks and crank marks at TDC, maybe we can see if you did that right, or misunderstood that. The hard marks are more important than the belt marks, which are only lined up once, at installation, anyway.

Hope this helps.

 

[nissanh]

Did you install the key in the crank shaft?

If you didn't line up the cam marks with marks on the engine block, the cams can spin with the spring loads (it is rapid and cannot really see it). This may have caused you to set one or both cams 180 degrees off.

 

[GunslingerT4R]

I got her running. Turns out the dot on the crank shaft doesn't line up with the dot but the pulley lines up on one of the covers with the piece that has a 0 10 15 plastic thing. I took number one spark plug out and put the piston at TDC.

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[TheDurk]

I got her running. Turns out the dot on the crank shaft doesn't line up with the dot but the pulley lines up on one of the covers with the piece that has a 0 10 15 plastic thing. I took number one spark plug out and put the piston at TDC.

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Well, please forgive me, but there's lot's of dumb stuff (one of which I've done) you can do on this job that will cause this:

Bad connection to sensors
forget key on crank
put sprocket on backwards
break a tooth on cam or crank sprocket
f up the plug wires (if you messed with those, 1-4, 2-5, 3-6 is right)

...just off the top of my head. If you want to take a pic of cam marks and crank marks at TDC, maybe we can see if you did that right, or misunderstood that. The hard marks are more important than the belt marks, which are only lined up once, at installation, anyway.

Hope this helps.

If pulley is not lining up, but the sprocket is, then either the key was not installed, or the little end of the key that engages the pulley sticking out from underneath the sprocket is sheared off, or you may not have engaged the pulley key slot on the key end when you reassembled, and then mashed the little key end when you torgued to spec. If the key end is just sheared clean, you can leave it like that, but if the key is not there, then the sprocket will eventually slide out of register to the crank shaft and your engine will stop. If it was installed out of register and the key end was mashed, that could allow the tension of the bolt on the shaft to loosen with time and that could be VERY bad. I'd pull pulley, key and sprocket, see which it is, and get it right so that both pulley and sprocket are held firmly in register with the crank by the key and make sure it is torqued to the spec 217 ft-lbs.

I think this is what is going on. Or did you just not understand how to align the hard marks in the first place?

 

[GunslingerT4R]

If pulley is not lining up, but the sprocket is, then either the key was not installed, or the little end of the key that engages the pulley sticking out from underneath the sprocket is sheared off, or you may not have engaged the pulley key slot on the key end when you reassembled, and then mashed the little key end when you torgued to spec. If the key end is just sheared clean, you can leave it like that, but if the key is not there, then the sprocket will eventually slide out of register to the crank shaft and your engine will stop. If it was installed out of register and the key end was mashed, that could allow the tension of the bolt on the shaft to loosen with time and that could be VERY bad. I'd pull pulley, key and sprocket, see which it is, and get it right so that both pulley and sprocket are held firmly in register with the crank by the key and make sure it is torqued to the spec 217 ft-lbs.

I think this is what is going on. Or did you just not understand how to align the hard marks in the first place?

Ya know I never got past the whole how do you put a square block through a triangle hole... Yeah the key is in there holding the pulley. Yes I torqued the bolt to 217. Yes I understand how to align the hard marks. Yes the pope is probably Catholic.

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[TheDurk]

Ya know I never got past the whole how do you put a square block through a triangle hole... Yeah the key is in there holding the pulley. Yes I torqued the bolt to 217. Yes I understand how to align the hard marks. Yes the pope is probably Catholic.

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OK. So what was wrong?

I'm just trying to help. I have no idea of your technical expertise, and you were asking for help, Mr. 68 posts. So hold the snark. When I did it, it started right up.

 

[GunslingerT4R]

OK. So what was wrong?

I'm just trying to help. I have no idea of your technical expertise, and you were asking for help, Mr. 68 posts. So hold the snark. When I did it, it started right up.

Your question was a little insulting bud. So I apologize. My old crank pulley had a chip right where the timing mark was pulled one from the grave yard and lined her up and it started right up. I pulled the number one spark plug to double check she was at TDC. She actually starts better than before.

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[IBallEngineer]

Your question was a little insulting bud. So I apologize. My old crank pulley had a chip right where the timing mark was pulled one from the grave yard and lined her up and it started right up. I pulled the number one spark plug to double check she was at TDC. She actually starts better than before.

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Yeah well when you ask for help, it is assumed you don't know some things. Clearly the timing was off, he was offering probable solutions, and asking for clarification. If you want to :flamethrwoer2:, there are other more suitable forums. Cough"Pirate" cough

Glad you figured it out!

 

[TheDurk]

Your question was a little insulting bud. So I apologize. My old crank pulley had a chip right where the timing mark was pulled one from the grave yard and lined her up and it started right up. I pulled the number one spark plug to double check she was at TDC. She actually starts better than before.

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I'm guessing you meant to say "sprocket" instead of "pulley", because a chip on the pulley would not make any difference if all was lined up. A chip on a sprocket tooth can be fatal because those provide the signal to the crank position sensor. I only care because if there is someone out there searching this forum trying to find info on how to fix their own problem, it would be nice if this thread had some useful information. So far, there isn't any. A clear exposition of what was wrong and how it caused a fail would provide that.