A dinosaur still roams the Earth.

[Cymon]

Does anyone think you're going to go on a forum, FOR 4Runners, and have people make critical self analysis about the short comings of their platform of choice?

You'd have to fight through metric tons of confirmation bias. Of course people's reaction is gonna be "nuh uh!"

That is a very blanket statement. I agree with most of the things you post, and of course there is going to be confirmation bias. But I would say there are a good number of members on here who when looking for a vehicle had to weigh the options that are on the market and had to make compromises in what they wanted in buying this vehicle. I was about to pull the trigger on both the Durango and Highlander before buying the 4runner. The Durango lost out because of transmission reliability concerns (this was when Fiat/Chrysler just introduced their 8speed on the V6), although it was awesome to drive and the interior and space inside is perfect for a family of 4. The highlander lost because it was essentially like a bigger version of our Outback and we wanted something different with more truck-like capability.

As been stated all over this forum a number of times and I am well aware that you already know...the 4runner is not the best at any one thing, but does a lot of things well. Tolerable on long road trips, plenty of space and capacity for a mid-sized SUV, can get to most places people would try to get to off-road, can tow reasonably in a pinch...and it looks cool (opinion).

I do understand your point of it not keeping up with the Jones', but at one point in time it was good enough for you buy it.

 

[RUNTHAT]

Does anyone think you're going to go on a forum, FOR 4Runners, and have people make critical self analysis about the short comings of their platform of choice?

You'd have to fight through metric tons of confirmation bias. Of course people's reaction is gonna be "nuh uh!"

Why wouldn't they? :banana:

arty:

 

[LawnDart]

The point is, if you keep releasing the same thing for 7 years, essentially, you either need to update it with minor things, or adjust the price.

Given how the market has changed, 42K+ for these is getting a tad absurd given all the things you DON'T get in them.

My problem as of late is that Toyota can and SHOULD be innovating, instead of being reactionary.

That is a very blanket statement. I agree with most of the things you post, and of course there is going to be confirmation bias. But I would say there are a good number of members on here who when looking for a vehicle had to weigh the options that are on the market and had to make compromises in what they wanted in buying this vehicle. I was about to pull the trigger on both the Durango and Highlander before buying the 4runner. The Durango lost out because of transmission reliability concerns (this was when Fiat/Chrysler just introduced their 8speed on the V6), although it was awesome to drive and the interior and space inside is perfect for a family of 4. The highlander lost because it was essentially like a bigger version of our Outback and we wanted something different with more truck-like capability.

As been stated all over this forum a number of times and I am well aware that you already know...the 4runner is not the best at any one thing, but does a lot of things well. Tolerable on long road trips, plenty of space and capacity for a mid-sized SUV, can get to most places people would try to get to off-road, can tow reasonably in a pinch...and it looks cool (opinion).

I do understand your point of it not keeping up with the Jones', but at one point in time it was good enough for you buy it.

 

[jbstrd]

I would argue most of us here fighting to keep BOF could care less if our truck like SUV has a plush interior. Shit, my old school 1st Gen Tacoma almost has all I need. The added creature comforts in my '13 TE certainly fits my needs.

*** Dammit, I'm sounding like an old man already and I'm only in my 30's***

So yes, I agree people have confirmation bias. But, I'm also certain a large percentage of guys on this forum don't need to prove to anyone why their number one choice is a 4Runner.

 

[KEWW Pro]

Tahoe, $65k
Suburban, $70k
Expedition, $70k
4Runner (Pro), $42K

one dad, three kids, one wheel chair, geocaching, hiking, kayaking, biking, road tripping, camping, overlanding, back and forth to mom's 2-3x/week, firefighting, boat towing, rappelling, range shooting, grocery shopping and a very strong desire to have a rear window that rolls down at the touch of a button in a rig that looks sexier when dirty... go ahead C&D, thanks for being honest but find me a better ride!

 

[LawnDart]

So yes, I agree people have confirmation bias. But, I'm also certain a large percentage of guys on this forum don't need to prove to anyone why their number one choice is a 4Runner.

Yet people post articles that criticize their platform of choice because they want the group think to back up their purchase choice.

I don't think someone would post a rather even keeled review that points out the pros and cons of a 7 year old vehicle, and we'd all gather around, rub our chins, and say, "yep this is totally fair, go about your business, boys!"

Obviously people were going to defend their choices.

C&D really has no vested interest one way or the other, which usually leads to more accurate reviews. I got the chance to drive a Ferrari 458 around for a day, and when you realize it's not your money involved, you can be aware of how stupid some stuff is on modern cars, regardless of the budget and what they cost.

Would a better interior be nice on the 4Runner? yeah man, for 42K+...hell yeah. Turning down better because something is good enough is the enemy of improvement.

 

[Cymon]

The point is, if you keep releasing the same thing for 7 years, essentially, you either need to update it with minor things, or adjust the price.

Given how the market has changed, 42K+ for these is getting a tad absurd given all the things you DON'T get in them.

My problem as of late is that Toyota can and SHOULD be innovating, instead of being reactionary.

Absolutely! And if the 4runner is still around when mine is done (which is unlikely unless something unfortunate happens to my current one) and they still haven't changed their philosophy, I will likely end up buying a different vehicle. I just hope when that happens there is something available that can match all of the current 4runner's positive attributes with some of the innovation of other vehicles and not compromising reliability...in essence a Unicorn!

 

[DesertRnr]

I came to the 4Runner from a late model Cherokee Trailhawk. That thing had all the bells and whistles, and would get me most places I wanted to go, but it just didn't provide any level of excitement.

Toyota should certainly provide a lot more amenities that are standard on much less expensive vehicles, and the engine should be stronger, and the gas mileage better, but I still enjoy just looking my 4Runner, much less driving it. I can't explain it, but it's the only daily driver that I have ever owned that I was at interested in doing more than driving around. I'm addicted to this forum and have list of mods that I probably won't need, but will probably do.

It may not have been the smartest choice in vehicles I could have made, but so far its been pretty satisfying.

 

[LawnDart]

Absolutely! And if the 4runner is still around when mine is done (which is unlikely unless something unfortunate happens to my current one) and they still haven't changed their philosophy, I will likely end up buying a different vehicle. I just hope when that happens there is something available that can match all of the current 4runner's positive attributes with some of the innovation of other vehicles and not compromising reliability...in essence a Unicorn!

I think the point we're in agreement on is that the 4Runner could use a healthy update. If people think it's fine as is, I'd say look at a lot of features available on toyota's cheaper products, and ask why we don't benefit from that.

Why does the RAV4 have better headlights than the 5th gen. Don't tell me because it's an exciting vehicle we're excused from modern LED headlights.

I'd rather we have incremental changes than updates we only get by massive generational changes.

 

[jbstrd]

Yet people post articles that criticize their platform of choice because they want the group think to back up their purchase choice.

I don't think someone would post a rather even keeled review that points out the pros and cons of a 7 year old vehicle, and we'd all gather around, rub our chins, and say, "yep this is totally fair, go about your business, boys!"

Obviously people were going to defend their choices.

C&D really has no vested interest one way or the other, which usually leads to more accurate reviews. I got the chance to drive a Ferrari 458 around for a day, and when you realize it's not your money involved, you can be aware of how stupid some stuff is on modern cars, regardless of the budget and what they cost.

Would a better interior be nice on the 4Runner? yeah man, for 42K+...hell yeah. Turning down better because something is good enough is the enemy of improvement.

Totally agree people on this forum do this but I feel that is the minority since most of us sit back and lurk realizing people don't give two shits what we think. Could be wrong though, as I am often. Not even sure why I got a wild hair and chimed in on this thread, lol.

Maybe it's brand loyalty or internal confirmation bias for me, but there isn't any other SUV I would want. But, like I said in a previous post, I'm easier to please than a lot and I don't expect much in the amenity department.

 

[Throwback]

Yet people post articles that criticize their platform of choice because they want the group think to back up their purchase choice.

I don't think someone would post a rather even keeled review that points out the pros and cons of a 7 year old vehicle, and we'd all gather around, rub our chins, and say, "yep this is totally fair, go about your business, boys!"

Obviously people were going to defend their choices.

C&D really has no vested interest one way or the other, which usually leads to more accurate reviews. I got the chance to drive a Ferrari 458 around for a day, and when you realize it's not your money involved, you can be aware of how stupid some stuff is on modern cars, regardless of the budget and what they cost.

Would a better interior be nice on the 4Runner? yeah man, for 42K+...hell yeah. Turning down better because something is good enough is the enemy of improvement.

You could open the other can of worms and dissect how much of that confirmation bias is because the 4Runner shows the world what the owner *wants* the world to see.

A dude that drives a 4Runner is so old school and rugged that he doesn't need frilly interiors. Heck, he won't even take them for free. He spends his free time adventuring in places normal commuter cars can't go.

My wife cut me straight to the core one day when she said, "You know, you spend way more time on the computer reading about off roading and exploring in 4Runners instead of off roading and exploring in your 4Runner."

I'll admit that I bought my 4Runner mainly because it was cool and I wanted it. I don't come close to using it to it's potential. There are some guys here who do and it's very cool to see, but unfortunately I'm not one of them.

 

[dot_tom]

The review is dead on for standard buyers. I purchased a T4R TRD OR last months because it meets all my needs. It's not like a Ford Edge, or Honda CRV/Pilot, or anything else for that matter. That is why I bought it. Reliability, great looks, awesome off road ability, and all around fun vehicle to drive. If they change any of that, at least I have my '17.

Side note- C&D did pick the best color to post

 

[ddT4Rdd]

My 4Runner scores high in all the categories I feel are important. Driver assist, adaptive cruise control? Meh... And no off-road comparison?

 

[fogcitysurfer]

Historically 4runner reviews by generalized magazines have been mediocre, except for reliability. Same old thing vs other SUVs, better at off road, worse on road, lacking features. the only exception I would say is the 2003 reviews with the sweeping changes and the V8.

I bought mine because of its all-around versatility and reliability. I have a long commute and I have a need for a vehicle that can handle at least medium off-roading, and I like the look.

It has many shortcomings, but so do a lot of other vehicles depending on what you need.

Would I like more comfort? Sure! Would I like more power? Sure! But show me another vehicle with this level of 0ff-road ability, customization options, and reliability at this price range. There is none.

So until something comes along that I like better or suits my needs better, or my needs change, this is it.

 

[LawnDart]

You could open the other can of worms and dissect how much of that confirmation bias is because the 4Runner shows the world what the owner *wants* the world to see.

Oh sure, we could play the "looks like it goes offroad but doesn't offroad" game all day.

The reality is that the percentage of 4Runners that actually go off road is low, like 1-2 percent of the total model base. It's really really low. And those numbers typically only apply to "anything not on pavement" which can mean gravel roads.

I'm not saying toyota needs to go balls deep into crazy offroad upgrades. It'd just be nice for them to modernize the vehicles with the same features in their cheaper models. The Limited's selling points are a few features that now come standard on base models from other competitors or even other products within Toyota's line up.

 

[tpetsch]

All that truth from C&D doesn't seem to effect resale value very much.

 

[Throwback]

Yeah totally agree. My wife's 2012 RAV4 has heated leather seats, auto headlights, dual zone auto HVAC, smart key/push start, etc.

The 2017 Corolla has collision detection, LED headlights, auto HVAC, and an out the door price tag of around $18k. It's shameful that the 4Runner can't get outfitted *at least* as well as the lowly Corolla.

 

[Cymon]

:iagree:

I think the point we're in agreement on is that the 4Runner could use a healthy update. If people think it's fine as is, I'd say look at a lot of features available on toyota's cheaper products, and ask why we don't benefit from that.

Why does the RAV4 have better headlights than the 5th gen. Don't tell me because it's an exciting vehicle we're excused from modern LED headlights.

I'd rather we have incremental changes than updates we only get by massive generational changes.

:iagree:
I think Toyota may see it as these things last so damn long that those of us that don't plan on upgrading every couple of years likely won't buy one until the next generation anyway. But this also contributes to your point as if they made more incremental changes, then some of the current owners might upgrade more often allowing for even more sales... why does my logic when reading this to myself sound like Vizzini from the princess bride?

 

[JPOVS]

This article missed all points why I bought a 4Runner.
I bought it for running kids to soccer and going to the mall. It excels at both!
Now I dont have to wait in line to leave the soccer park, I can just leave taking the ditch.
At the mall, well now I can park on top of the snow bank!

 

[e60ral]

All that truth from C&D doesn't seem to effect resale value very much.

if people bought the car that was actually the best for their needs 99% of people would be in either a minivan or a small sedan