A dinosaur still roams the Earth.

[gundrted+t4r]

Another thing to consider is how much the price of SUVs has changed over the years. I did some googling and came up with these numbers.

1999 4Runner Limited Sticker - $33,438 - Adjusted for inflation (2017 $) $51,343

2017 4Runner Limited Sticker - $45,000 roughly

1999 Tahoe LTD Sticker - $32,520 - Adjusted for inflation (2017 $) - $48,484

2017 Tahoe LTZ Sticker - $53,750, the Premier trim $63,435

1999 Jeep GC Limited Sticker - $34,190, Adjusted for inflation (2017 $) $50,973

2017 Jeep GC Limited Sticker - $37,995, Trail Hawk $43,095, Overland $47,795, Summit $53,495

I think the pricing of the 4Runners has made them a good deal compared to other SUV's. I also think that Toyota has priced them (and thus given them the features to match) in order to fit them between the Highlanders and Lexus models. How many of us would want to pay $50k plus for a Limited 4Runner? What kinds of features would you expect in that price range? Possibly the same features found in a Lexus (ie a $55k to $65k plus SUV similar to the top of the line Jeeps and Chevys).

People are paying 50k+ for TRD Pros and its just a TRD Off-road with some bolton bling ... :hiding:

 

[CO-Cygnus]

Nothing to argue with in this review.

I love the truck but there were quite a few things that sort of took me aback when I bought mine. Whip antenna on a 2012? No projector headlights when the last gen had them? No LED tail lights when the last gen had them? Etc... Little quibbles, but they seemed like really chintzy cost saving measures on a $40K vehicle.

I've been waiting, and hoping, for Toyota to show any level of effort on the 4R so I can upgrade. The reality here is that the only real differences between my 2012 and the 2018s are cosmetic or very minor (cooled seats and LED tail lights) with a few actual downgrades... I think the nav display on my non-entune JBL is larger than the current unit in the Ltd.

Toyota has a stable of technologies and drive trains available on other cars, that are upgraded very frequently, but a lot of the stuff in the 4R feels like it came from 2005. Toyota offers Push Button start on the freaking $15K YARIS but you can't get it on a $40K+ TRD Offroad? C'mon.

I don't regret buying the truck. But I get somewhat annoyed that my brother gets better MPG out of the 420 HP 6.2l V8 in his Sierra.

 

[sn_85]

$30k for a Crosstrek?! You say that like it is a good thing. I don't care what tech you throw in that car, at the end of the day it is a lifted Impreza with 140hp and a CVT.

You obviously missed the point. It's not about the Crosstrek (I honestly don't even know how much a Crosstrek should cost and what a good deal is on one) but it's about cars $5-$15K less having better features and interiors. If you are happy with spending $35-$45k on an SUV that is behind the curve on cars much less expensive then that is up to you. Again, there is no reason they can't maintain reliability and off-road capability while catching up to 2017. When Ford releases the Bronco and Ranger here and Nissan brings out the new Frontier don't be surprised when people start to look elsewhere. I'm happy with my 4Runner for now but come 2020 when the other vehicles come out I would have hoped Toyota upgraded across their entire SUV and truck line.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

$30k for a Crosstrek?! You say that like it is a good thing. I don't care what tech you throw in that car, at the end of the day it is a lifted Impreza with 140hp and a CVT.

You can get a bare-bones Crosstrek for $21K, and you can pretty easily get $4K off sticker. True Car gets you invoice without haggling, work them a bit harder and you can about $1,500 lower.

For $31K sticker you get a maxed out crosstrek with Harmon Kardon stereo, Android Auto/Apple Car Play, 8 inch display, Adaptive Cruise, Push Button Start, Leather (not Vinyl) seats, adaptive LED headlights, and a bunch of other tech that just seems standard these days but you can't get outside of the 4Runner Limited like auto headlights and push button start.

If Subaru would have put their 1.6 or 2.0 DIT engines in the new crosstrek I would have bought one immediately and used in as my DD. Maybe that would have calmed me down about wanting more in the 4R if I could have kept is as my adventure-mobile only. Unfortunately they stuck with the 2.0 NA motor and it is an absolute dog.

 

[engineeer]

I agree on most of your points. But I'd actually like less features. If I could have gotten mine with a stick shift and manual locks and windows (with the exception of the tailgate), I'd have been thrilled. Delete the backup camera, nav system, and heated seats for that matter.

This is probably my last new car, primarily because I'm tired of all the unnecessary tech that gets foisted on us.


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Are you exaggerating or would you actually rather:

* Open your passenger and rear windows by cranking a knob
* Have to reach over or back to unlock doors for passengers and then rely on them to lock them when they get out
* Not be able to see clearly behind you when you're backing up (especially when off-roading)

Heated seats and navigation (especially due to smartphones) I totally agree can be extraneous and unnecessary, but those items above are absolute must-haves for me.

 

[pjku79]

When Toyota releases the next Gen, bet the base price jumps $5K. Look at what they did with the Sequoia and LC. LC used to be a pretty mainstream vehicle, now they are $90K. They would rather sell fewer of them for more profit. These vehicles have been marked by the govt to be eliminated, they want everyone in a EV that is small so they don't have to build more/bigger roads. Two small EV's equal one Sequoia and associated tailpipe pollution. It is a collusion between govt and corporate profits.

Form your own opinion people, don't let the media brainwash you into what they want you to do, think and believe.


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Actually the OEMs would much rather keep building big trucks because that is where they make most of their profit. With HEVs, the electrinics and batteries are still so expensive they are having to subsidize them to get them to the market. The EPA mandates Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) for each OEM and they OEMs are basically producing just enough to balance out the fuel economy of trucks.

OEMs are fighting the regulations tooth and nail.

 

[wadle5]

$30k for a Crosstrek?! You say that like it is a good thing. I don't care what tech you throw in that car, at the end of the day it is a lifted Impreza with 140hp and a CVT.

A fully loaded model yes...and it is a good thing, because those things(subarus in general) actually have a higher resale value than Toyotas. And it is nothing like the Impreza.

I don't regret buying the truck. But I get somewhat annoyed that my brother gets better MPG out of the 420 HP 6.2l V8 in his Sierra.

Yeah...but its an expensive chevy....how much did his fancy badge Silverado set him back? Also those things are being plagued with trans issues.

 

[BroncoBob]

I understand your point. I come from an age where power steering and brakes were extra cost options. I agree that leaning over to unlock a door or roll down a window is a real drag.

That being said, I have NEVER had a window stuck open because of a failed motorized window regulator on a truck with manual windows. I can't say the same for the power one (so, so, many times).

Although I like all the pretty, pretty toys the new cars come with, I have to wonder what it's doing to the reliability numbers (MTBF anyone?)

 

[josefmd]

People are paying 50k+ for TRD Pros and its just a TRD Off-road with some bolton bling ... :hiding:

Yeah, paying $50K for a pro is crazy, but I still like my bling anyway .....:flame:

 

[Quentin]

You obviously missed the point. It's not about the Crosstrek (I honestly don't even know how much a Crosstrek should cost and what a good deal is on one) but it's about cars $5-$15K less having better features and interiors. If you are happy with spending $35-$45k on an SUV that is behind the curve on cars much less expensive then that is up to you. Again, there is no reason they can't maintain reliability and off-road capability while catching up to 2017. When Ford releases the Bronco and Ranger here and Nissan brings out the new Frontier don't be surprised when people start to look elsewhere. I'm happy with my 4Runner for now but come 2020 when the other vehicles come out I would have hoped Toyota upgraded across their entire SUV and truck line.

My point is that you are getting $20k of stuff that actually moves the car and the stuff in it from A to B and $10k of niceties (comparing base price to loaded price). I'd guess that people buying 4Runners are more for spending their money on stuff that adds capability than stuff that makes their bottom less likely to sweat. It is just a function of the priorities of the buyers.

Now, as to whether or not Toyota should offer all those things, more than likely their market research says that not enough people are willing to pay for it or those that will just jump to a GX460 instead. Without knowing what the production capacity is and how the 4Runner is produced from a development and manufacturing side, it is hard to say if the numbers flesh out that they should or should not add these features. That ultimately will only be known by the product planners at TMC. Development and manufacturing is such a complex web that the craziest little things can cause something to be offered or not offered. Sometimes it is the dealer groups screaming for it, sometimes it is a supplier that can only build X number of a certain part before they have to invest in additional capacity that blows that trim or feature out of the water from a unit cost perspective. Sometimes a car or trim is offered because there is a political incentive to do so (Mirai for example).

Having been in the automotive industry for 11 years now, most decisions aren't made because the planners are idiots. They do the best with the data and cost available to them to make a product that meets the market demand while still being profitable. Honestly speaking, I don't think TMC sees a future for the 4Runner. Regulation and buyer desires are increasingly at odds with what a body on frame, real 4WD SUV does well. Hence, we will likely see one last refresh of the 5th gen before the 4Runner goes away. They can build Highlanders and RX350s on Camry platforms to share cost. They can build Rav4s and CH-Rs on the Corolla platform. The basic structure of the car is the same and that gives those vehicles a huge leg up on having a solid business case. Ford has the production capacity to build 600k F series trucks a year, so they almost need everything from a regular cab short bed F150 to a Raptor and everything in between to fully utilize their factories.

 

[Surfinguru]

My wife just got a new Highlander. It is a very nice ride and for 99% of the people reading this, will take you everywhere you want to go.

One thing that this reviewer didn't mention, and, while it gets mentioned occasionally when talking about sports cars, is the 4Runner has a soul. My new manual Tacoma has a soul. My wife's new Highlander, while nice and fancy and all kinds of better that the 4Runner, has no soul.

Very few regular vehicles nowadays have a soul. The 4Runner has it. My Tacoma has it. A Jeep Rubicon has one. A Raptor has one. The friggin Hellcat I rode in the other night has a whole truckload of a soul.

Oh man, how true. Within 30 seconds of sitting in a Highlander it felt like I was in a mini-van. (We had an old 2001 Sienna dubbed the "Snoopy Van" so I know what it feels like.) Not my cup of tea at all. Found an ORP and haven't looked back since.

Long live the 4R!

 

[Quentin]

And it is nothing like the Impreza.

It is as close to an Impreza as you can buy without being an Impreza. Chassis is shared, body panels are shared, drivetrain is shared. It is the "adventure" version of an Impreza.

 

[fogcitysurfer]

Don't get me wrong, I really like my 4Runner. But honestly this is the last time the 4Runner was actually innovative.

 

[wadle5]

It is as close to an Impreza as you can buy without being an Impreza. Chassis is shared, body panels are shared, drivetrain is shared. It is the "adventure" version of an Impreza.

The Crosstrek measures two inches wider and four inches taller than the Impreza, while the Impreza is five inches longer. The Impreza is designed to come with the choice between a 4-door and 5-door body style for more versatile options. They don't share the same body panels, yes the chassis is the same as Subaru like most smart companies are tying to have one chassis for all models. The new released impreza is the first universal platform they have built. In regards to drivetrain...well its a subaru...so yeah it does need a boxer engine and AWD?

Yes they are similar, but they aren't the same...that like saying the highlander is like the 4runner...they are both Toyota SUVs...

 

[JayToo]

Are you exaggerating or would you actually rather:

* Open your passenger and rear windows by cranking a knob
* Have to reach over or back to unlock doors for passengers and then rely on them to lock them when they get out
* Not be able to see clearly behind you when you're backing up (especially when off-roading)

Heated seats and navigation (especially due to smartphones) I totally agree can be extraneous and unnecessary, but those items above are absolute must-haves for me.

Nope. I realize it's not a popular opinion, as evidenced by the fact that most new cars come with all the power features, automatic trans, etc.

I'm usually driving by myself so the things you mentioned aren't really an issue. I just prefer my vehicles as simple as possible. The only things I'd say are must-haves are fuel injection, air conditioning and a stereo.


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[Quentin]

The Crosstrek measures two inches wider and four inches taller than the Impreza, while the Impreza is five inches longer. The Impreza is designed to come with the choice between a 4-door and 5-door body style for more versatile options. They don't share the same body panels, yes the chassis is the same as Subaru like most smart companies are tying to have one chassis for all models. The new released impreza is the first universal platform they have built. In regards to drivetrain...well its a subaru...so yeah it does need a boxer engine and AWD?

Yes they are similar, but they aren't the same...that like saying the highlander is like the 4runner...they are both Toyota SUVs...

Come on, man. Open the following links side by side and tell me that a Crosstrek isn't an Impreza with a lift, new bumper skins, overfenders, and side skirts.

2017 Subaru Impreza - Photos & Videos | Subaru
2018 Subaru Crosstrek - Photos & Videos | Subaru

You could make one into the other. You cannot do that with a Highlander and 4Runner. I'd be shocked if they share more than a few parts like lash adjusters or window switches. The drivetrains aren't even the same direction on the Highlander (transverse mount, FWD biased) and 4Runner (longitudinal mount, RWD biased). The basic chassis structure is different (unit body versus body on frame). False equivalency.

 

[wadle5]

Come on, man. Open the following links side by side and tell me that a Crosstrek isn't an Impreza with a lift, new bumper skins, overfenders, and side skirts.

2017 Subaru Impreza - Photos & Videos | Subaru
2018 Subaru Crosstrek - Photos & Videos | Subaru

You could make one into the other. You cannot do that with a Highlander and 4Runner. I'd be shocked if they share more than a few parts like lash adjusters or window switches. The drivetrains aren't even the same direction on the Highlander (transverse mount, FWD biased) and 4Runner (longitudinal mount, RWD biased). The basic chassis structure is different (unit body versus body on frame). False equivalency.

You are missing the point or just ignoring my other statements on purpose. Subaru had the genius idea of having a universal platform...The Impreza is the first to use this platform, again this is to save cost. Similar to engine and AWD..this is what Subaru is known for. They dont have the diversity of lineup like Toyota and their motors are tried and true which is why they have in total about 3 different engines across all models. Again you are comparing 2 completely different models that you are unfamiliar with and while they may be "similar" to you they are different vehicles. If they were that similar why would Subaru sell them? My comment on the 4runner to highlander comparison was again a generality well because they are both SUVs

But if you want to futher deter this original post than by all means...

 

[CO-Cygnus]

Yeah...but its an expensive chevy....how much did his fancy badge Silverado set him back? Also those things are being plagued with trans issues.

3 year old CPO... upper $30s I think? Sierra Denali, sweet truck. Good example of when to buy a gently used one and save big $$$ vs a 4Runner when you're better off buying new unless it's 10+ years old.

 

[aelarson]

I wanted to offer my .02.

I just bought my TRD Pro on Monday and I am pretty happy with the features. I came from a 2015 BMW M235i and my new 4Runner is significantly nicer in terms of features. Entune is not as user friendly as iDrive, but there are more features and options.

The interior quality on the 4Runner is also nicer. Everyone keeps talking about how much plastic is in the 4Runner, which is true. But look at BMW...they're all plastic as well. Not to mention, the plastic in the 4Runner is sturdier and more solid than my BMW ever was. One huge reason I sold the BMW was because the interior was literally falling apart (door panels falling off, trim pieces falling off, popping/cracking sounds).

I know that isn't comparing apples to apples, but at the end of the day, most BMW's are very similar in terns of interior layout and materials.

 

[wadle5]

3 year old CPO... upper $30s I think? Sierra Denali, sweet truck. Good example of when to buy a gently used one and save big $$$ vs a 4Runner when you're better off buying new unless it's 10+ years old.

CPO is the way to go with the extended warranty. On my recent search in looking into 5th gen 4runners I am seeing that 2-3 year old models are just a hair less than a brand new one. Wondering if its worth it since they have the extended warranty.