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Exactly what I needed to hear riverwolf thanks!!!
Do you think I should drop the pan and change the filter as well?
Advice-Drop the Pan or Dealer Flush?
- Thread starter cknsls@adelphia
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Exactly what I needed to hear riverwolf thanks!!!
Do you think I should drop the pan and change the filter as well?
I'm probably the wrong person to ask. ;-) I replaced my pan back in June due to a stripped drain plug. Seems simple enough, just remove 20 or so bolts, right?...oh, yeah, you've also got to remove the exhaust crossover pipe that takes the driver's side exhaust over to the passenger side. Anyway, once I finally picked up a deep well socket for the exhaust studs...the need for which was not discovered until the truck was on stands with the fluid drained , the removal wasn't so bad. Installation was my problem...I managed to slice one of the wires going to the SL2 shift solenoid...of course, you don't know this until you've buttoned it up, refilled the ATF, and started it up. I let a local trans shop fix it since I didn't want to fight with the FIPG gasket (make sure you get a replacement cork gasket from your parts dept, it does exist even if they only use FIPG in the shop, DAMHIK). Most likely, I cut the wire with the edge of the pan while trying to catch the dipstick tube. If your '04 has the sealed trans, you won't have that issue to contend with.
Some will say you need to drop the pan to see how much "junk" is in the bottom and then clean it. Since you're not likely to do anything to the trans until/if it brakes anyway, I'm not sure I see the point, especially at 100K+ miles. I personally, would just do a drain-n-fill to remove whatever's not sticking to the *4* magnets on the bottom of the pan, followed by a cooler line flush, but I don't think I've ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express so the advice is worth the price paid.
Speaking of mileage, have you confirmed your timing belt's been changed? Toyota says 90K/72months. That's likely a more pressing concern than your ATF.
-Brent
They say a picture is worth 1,000 words...
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CJ3Flyr
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Yes it is:bigok: A picture is worth a 1000 words...
Link added here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/maint...ission-fluid-servicing-sealed-non-sealed.html
Link added here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/maint...ission-fluid-servicing-sealed-non-sealed.html
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Yes, I did get my timing belt and water pump changed in the first week after we purchased the 4runner.
However it was a good bargaining chip since the dealer could not tell me if it had been changed... The salesman then gave me this line about how imports are harder to work on versus domestics blah blah blah.
I told the salesmen everything nowadays is overhead cam and electronic so unless your mechanics only know how to fix old GM iron they should have NO problem changing a timing belt on a V8 4runner. That shut him up really quick and he gave me the price I wanted and a full tank of gas :bluejump:
Now I'm ready to do my flush hopefully this weekend. I have a case+ of Royal Purple MaxATF (I know it's not Toyota WS but the viscosities are nearly the same and my vehicle is well out of warranty).
I should be able to pull that cooler line, per the 1000 word picture thank you very much, run it till it sputters, then fill up the trans, run it once more till it sputters and then perform a final fill and level check. Since I have the sealed trans unless I drop the pan I really can't drain much of anything out of it is my understanding... In the end I should get about 11qts of old trans fluid out???
With whatever I have left of ATF I figure I'll do a power steering flush as well since mine is currently almost black in color.
However it was a good bargaining chip since the dealer could not tell me if it had been changed... The salesman then gave me this line about how imports are harder to work on versus domestics blah blah blah.
I told the salesmen everything nowadays is overhead cam and electronic so unless your mechanics only know how to fix old GM iron they should have NO problem changing a timing belt on a V8 4runner. That shut him up really quick and he gave me the price I wanted and a full tank of gas :bluejump:
Now I'm ready to do my flush hopefully this weekend. I have a case+ of Royal Purple MaxATF (I know it's not Toyota WS but the viscosities are nearly the same and my vehicle is well out of warranty).
I should be able to pull that cooler line, per the 1000 word picture thank you very much, run it till it sputters, then fill up the trans, run it once more till it sputters and then perform a final fill and level check. Since I have the sealed trans unless I drop the pan I really can't drain much of anything out of it is my understanding... In the end I should get about 11qts of old trans fluid out???
With whatever I have left of ATF I figure I'll do a power steering flush as well since mine is currently almost black in color.
Koz
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I know Royal Purple MaxATF is not an "official" WS replacement. AMSOIL does have what they call a WS replacement and if you look at the viscosities of the AMSOIL versus the Royal Purple they are nearly identical.
Knowing this I contacted Royal Purple to see what they had to say about the viscosity of Royal Purple, AMSOIL and WS. I received a very quick response from a tech specialist who said the following...
No one but Amsoil has approved their fluid as a Toyota WS replacement. The Japanese manufacturers do not license their automotive fluid specs. Amsoil does have a product that is a light viscosity ATF that is "similar" to the Toyota WS viscosity; we do not. However, Royal Purple Max ATF (part #01320, quart bottle) is a great replacement from a performance and protection standpoint. If you are looking for a strictly warranty compliant ATF for a vehicle that specs Toyota WS, you need to purchase Toyota WS ATF. If you are looking for a superior synthetic fluid, Royal Purple Max ATF, and the Amsoil product, will be great choices.
With the slightly higher viscosity of Royal Purple over AMSOIL you will notice slightly firmer shifting. Nothing harsh at all, just less slippage between gears.
Thanks for choosing Royal Purple and have a great day!
In addition to their response they are also sending me some free Royal Purple decals for my inquiry. :cheers:
Knowing this I contacted Royal Purple to see what they had to say about the viscosity of Royal Purple, AMSOIL and WS. I received a very quick response from a tech specialist who said the following...
No one but Amsoil has approved their fluid as a Toyota WS replacement. The Japanese manufacturers do not license their automotive fluid specs. Amsoil does have a product that is a light viscosity ATF that is "similar" to the Toyota WS viscosity; we do not. However, Royal Purple Max ATF (part #01320, quart bottle) is a great replacement from a performance and protection standpoint. If you are looking for a strictly warranty compliant ATF for a vehicle that specs Toyota WS, you need to purchase Toyota WS ATF. If you are looking for a superior synthetic fluid, Royal Purple Max ATF, and the Amsoil product, will be great choices.
With the slightly higher viscosity of Royal Purple over AMSOIL you will notice slightly firmer shifting. Nothing harsh at all, just less slippage between gears.
Thanks for choosing Royal Purple and have a great day!
In addition to their response they are also sending me some free Royal Purple decals for my inquiry. :cheers:
Koz
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Do NOT use RP ATF, you will have problems. Even Royal Purple warns not use!
Please note: Max ATF is not recommended or an approved warranty replacement for: Aisin Warner AW-1, Ford Type F, Ford Mercon SP & Mercon LV, GM Dexron VI, Mercedes Benz MB 236.12 & 236.14, Shell M1375.4 (ZF 6-Speed AT) and Toyota WS.
Why would you use this product in a VERY expensive trans?
Koz
Koz
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Let's back-up a bit; The WS trans in maintenance free. The only time you need to service this trans is when the idiot light lets you know the fluid is damaged. This also includes vehicles towing at recommended weight. You can send a sample for analysis to determine its condition and look for any leaks. If you feel you must do some kind of preventive maintenance just drain the pan (make sure you measure how much you drain and how to get the new fluid in). Adding a couple quarts of fresh fluid rejuvenates the fluid where you should not have to flush the whole system. If I were to feel the need to flush the whole system, I would use the Amsoil fluid; it is engineered for severe operating conditions. It is being used for high HP ISFs (600+hp). I would think you would not have to service the trans for a very long time.
Koz
Koz
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You saying that WS fluid is a lifetime fluid sure seems to go against what everyone else on this forum says about it as well as my dealer who said WS fluid is NOT a lifetime fluid and if you have done any decent amount of towing you SHOULD be changing it on a regular interval.
Only WS fluid is a "warranty replacement fluid". So whether I use Royal Purple or AMSOIL makes no difference since they are nearly identical in viscosity to one another.
I'm not an expert by any means, but there's more to ATF compatibility than the viscosity. Not to mention, the viscosity changes with temp, especially the WS...at lower temps it's thinner than the T-IV spec it replaced and at high temps it's essentially equal. Unfortunately, the graph doesn't actually state what low and high are.
Personally, I stick with OEM chemistry for coolant and ATF in my vehicles...aftermarket probably is compatible, but you *know* the OEM stuff is. Use fluid of choice when the spec is "open source"...power steering, motor oil, diffs, etc.
I believe Toyota says WS is "lifetime"...check your manual for confirmation. Even my '03, which uses T-IV in the same A750F trans as your '04, says something to the effect that ATF doesn't need to be changed under normal operating conditions. Do I actually believe in a "lifetime" fluid?...No. You also have to remember that most of us on the forum are a little more "enthusiastic" about our rigs than the general public, but we only represent a small percentage of the total ownership population.
-Brent
Koz
New member
WS fluid is not indestructible and can be damaged but the only time I heard of it being replaced was for big HP engines. I have never heard of one WS trans damaging the fluid where it needed to be replaced, even with very high mileage and towing. I have read where someone had put in non WS fluid and had problem with the trans. I had planned to have the fluid sampled at approx 80K miles to see what the condition was. All the analysis I have seen so far have shown this fluid to be EXTREAMLY durable (that goes for these trans' also).
There is a BIG difference between RP and Amsoil fluid. Amsoil will NOT void your warranty and Royal Purple WILL. Amsoil is a direct replacement for OEM and RP is NOT. Don't get me wrong Royal Purple makes great products but they themselves, do NOT recommend using it.
Again, somewhere down the road I will send a sample to determine its condition and will do whatever is necessary to keep the trans happy. I will NOT replace the fluid for no reason and certainly will not put in a fluid that is not recommended and will void my warranty.
Koz
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Thanks for the input Koz! I did some further research on WS and found on bobistheoilguy forums several that have sent new and used WS to Blackstone and other labs for analysis. The comments on the results are questioning whether WS is even a full-synthentic and others say given the lab analysis WS appears to be a lighter DEX III. They also agree there that it is not a super fluid by any means.
Also per CJ3Flyr his experience with WS after only 45k http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/53168-ws-transmission-fluid-stands.html
I have found a couple people that have used Royal Purple and Mobil1 as a WS replacement without any adverse affects... Unfortunately all of them are in a much warmer climate than myself. I'm thinking going to AMSOIL will be better given most of our daytime highs here in the winter are in the low teens.
Also per CJ3Flyr his experience with WS after only 45k http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/53168-ws-transmission-fluid-stands.html
I have found a couple people that have used Royal Purple and Mobil1 as a WS replacement without any adverse affects... Unfortunately all of them are in a much warmer climate than myself. I'm thinking going to AMSOIL will be better given most of our daytime highs here in the winter are in the low teens.
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I recently purchased a 2005 Limited V6 with only 35,000 miles on it. Bought it from a family who's father owned the truck and had passed away. He apparently took good care of it and had all the maintenance receipts. After studying over the maintenance receipts I discovered that at 30,000 miles the dealer drained and filled the transmission with ATF T-IV (about 4 qts.), but this car requires ATF WS fluid.
1. Should I be concerned that there is a mix of WS and T-IV?
2. When you drain and fill from just the drain pan and fill hole, are you only replacing about 30% of your transmission fluid?
3. If the mix of WS and T-IV is bad, should I do an entire flush and fill?
>Rob
1. Should I be concerned that there is a mix of WS and T-IV?
2. When you drain and fill from just the drain pan and fill hole, are you only replacing about 30% of your transmission fluid?
3. If the mix of WS and T-IV is bad, should I do an entire flush and fill?
>Rob
wolfgang
New member
I can't believe a toyota dealer would drain it at only 30k and then replace it with wrong stuff! It's a lifetime fluid (even though I'd personally change it at 75k or so). Guess they needed the extra income that day. Based on your receipt and their stupidity - I'd take it back and insist they flush the system and use the proper fluid. I'd for sure get the proper stuff in the trans.
Never realised how much scheduled maintenance varies on the same vehicle. In Canada, transmission fluid change is every 96000km (about 60000 miles) on the V8 04 I have, with transfer case and diff fluid changes every 64000km (around 40000 miles) and they recommend more frequent changes if you tow! (Makes the 192000km service a scary prospect- coolant, cases, tranny and plugs all in one service - dreading it..)
Guess the cold temperatures make them more cautious in Canada but there are US states with just as harsh winters as Ontario for instance. FYI - I was given the choice of drain or flush and opted for a flush given it was just the cost of a few more litres of ATF.
All that said, there is no scheduled frequency for brake or steering fluid flush/change in Canada
Guess the cold temperatures make them more cautious in Canada but there are US states with just as harsh winters as Ontario for instance. FYI - I was given the choice of drain or flush and opted for a flush given it was just the cost of a few more litres of ATF.
All that said, there is no scheduled frequency for brake or steering fluid flush/change in Canada
Flush, for sure!
I bought a 1992 Lexus ES300 w/75k miles in 2005. In 2006, noting the transmission shifted into overdrive only after warming up (in FL), I took it to the only AAA certified repair shop in the area, and they did the flush for $149. It is a several step process, that is gauranteed not to harm a trannsmission with no loose parts. My mileage improved by 2mpg, and the transmission shifting was solved. Money well spent.
I will have my 4R done at 45k, and will make suure the technicians have the right equipment, and poper training.
I bought a 1992 Lexus ES300 w/75k miles in 2005. In 2006, noting the transmission shifted into overdrive only after warming up (in FL), I took it to the only AAA certified repair shop in the area, and they did the flush for $149. It is a several step process, that is gauranteed not to harm a trannsmission with no loose parts. My mileage improved by 2mpg, and the transmission shifting was solved. Money well spent.
I will have my 4R done at 45k, and will make suure the technicians have the right equipment, and poper training.
00328
Senior Member
As the weather is getting better, I plan to do this flush very soon.
My question refers to the pic the riverwolf posted. With the clear tubing attached to the return line and dumping the used ATF into a container, can you then put the black hose into a container of fresh ATF and have it draw the fresh ATF right into the tranny? Would the black return line produce sufficient suction to do this? If so, you could then do the whole flush right from the front of the vehicle.
Anyone know?
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