So, after I bought my 4Runner, one user PM'd me the following:
Congrats on your new 4Runner. I love the white and that is a clean truck.
I happen to be looking for a truck myself.I noticed in your spreadsheet that you have a 2006 Sport in Manassas Va. Listed. I'm just curious how closely you looked at that truck. Did you go and see it in person? It is from a northern state so I'm wondering if rust could be an issue. Did you investigate the dealer enough to get any kind of feeling about their trustworthiness? I'm about nine hours from them so it would have to be either invest in a trip up there or buy unseen and ship it here. Neither of which are great options. The price has been lowered now and it could be a good buy if it doesn't have issues. If you have any thoughts to share on it I would appreciate it. Thanks.
And here was my reply (slightly edited, and also expanded too!)... I'll post the spreadsheet that he mentioned too... it'll be in my next post or two.
pjbrownva wrote:
--------------------
Hi!
No, I didn't look at either of the cars in Manassas. I understand what you mean. I actually bought my truck sight-unseen and without a 3rd party inspection !!!
With that said, if you are talking about (link to car was here) it seemed very clean, and I was definitely interested.
For any Truck where I think I have a serious interest in buying it, here's what I would do if I were in your situation...
i) CALL THEM
I would call them up and tell them that you are very interested in the truck. You are out of state, but that isn't a problem. Then tell them, you're not trying to run some shipping scam or bank check fraud, you are a legitimate buyer, and you are seriously interested in the truck.
ii) REPAIR HISTORY & NEEDED WORK
I would ask them if they have any additional documentation on the truck, such as a condition report, a list of any work that they may have done, or a third party inspection, and also I would ask them what does the truck need in terms of work or repairs. (They will probably say nothing... but you never know).
iii) CAR FAX - Look at it if provided. Otherwise, ask about it.
If I didn't have a CAR FAX report, I would also ask them if they checked the Car Fax report on the truck, and if they say yes, then I would nicely ask them if they could email or fax it to me. (Ask first if they checked it... that way, if and once they say yes, it should be a no-brainer for them to share it with you. If they won't send it, or back track, that should be a red flag to you, that *at least* requires more investigation).
iv) ADDITIONAL PHOTOS
If the photos didn't show what I wanted to see, I would ask the owner or sales person if they could snap a few more photos on their cell phone and send them to me. (For example, 3 or 4 photos of the undercarriage, wheel wells, and condition of the tires, if that isn't clear. Maybe even a few shots of the engine bay too, if there aren't any.)
v) NEGOTIATE PRELIMINARY DEAL, IF YOU THINK YOU WANT TO BUY THIS TRUCK
Once I got the photos. (Or if I didn't ask for any), **assuming that I think I want this truck**, I would tell them that I'm interested in buying the truck, I would like to talk price, and also I would require a 3rd party inspection before we finalized the deal. I would tell them that my mechanic could come to them and do the inspection on site. At some point, I would also offer to give a refundable credit card deposit to show that I am serious. (use a credit card and not a debit card.). For a private seller, I would offer to send a $100 check as a fully refundable deposit. Chances are, if you offer, that will be enough to seal the deal, but I would also consider emailing them a "letter of intent", and if they actually expect you to send the check, tell them that you will post date they check, so that they can hold it to know that you're serious, but you would like them to just hold it for now. (You don't know them, so I'm not sure you should send them $100 that they can cash right away. With a post-dated check, if things go south, you can try to put a stop-payment on the check before they cash it... but don't abuse someone's trust!)
The point is to show good faith if you are serious about that particular truck, and to gain a commitment between you and the seller that you want to buy this check. If you get this type of commitment, it makes it less likely that the seller will call you up later and tell you that the truck is already sold because someone came buy, paid cash, and took the truck home.
vi) CHECK ONLINE FOR TOYOTA DEALER SERVICE RECORDS
If things are looking good, I would
go to the toyota owner's site. You'll need to get the truck'a VIN. At this point, ask the seller for the vin if you don't already have it. If they refuse to give it to, patiently explain why you need it (car fax, to check service records, to get reliable insurance quotes, to get bank financing if you choose to go that route). If they still won't give it to you, then walk away.
Once you register at
the Toyota owner's site , you can add the truck based on it's VIN, and this will let you see any service that was done at a Toyota dealership. Some cars and trucks rarely see a dealership if at all. That isn't necessarily bad.
vii) BUY A CAR FAX, IF YOU CAN'T GET ONE FOR FREE
On a similar note, if the seller says they didn't run a car fax, I would probably pay to have one run, or (if I felt I could trust them), maybe ask the seller if they would mind running one and sending it to me. Tell them that it's a good thing for *them* to have, because it can help them sell the truck more easily to someone else in the event that you don't end up closing the deal with them.
viii) HAVE TRUCK CHECKED OUT BY A PRO (IF YOU WANT)
If it everything sounds good, then I would send
Auto Analyst Home Page guys to check out the truck. They'll give you a full rundown on the condition, both mechanical and cosmetic. (Note: The link is for a service in the MD, VA, DC area that I've used several times. Many areas probably have similar mobile services to check a car. Search for pre-purchase inspection. Search for car appraisers. Search for mobile car appraisal, etc. A good appraiser would do a mechanical as well as physical inspection of a car. And some of them will travel to where the car is located.)
ix) START TO CLOSE THE DEAL, IF YOU WANT THE TRUCK
If you like what you find, then it's up to you to close the deal. You could come get the truck (train if it runs there, plane, bus, etc), or you could use a service like
uship.com to have the truck shipped to you. (Note: There are probably many other services too, and the dealer might have one, if you are buying from a dealer. USHIP.COM seems to have a strong presence on ebay motors). You could also have someone drive you to pick up the truck, but then they will be driving back alone. In my case, I had totaled my previous truck, and I had an open insurance claim. Using a discount from my insurance company, I was able to get an awesome quote ($19) on a one-way rental from Enterprise, although I ultimately spent $60 to take the train so that I could avoid heavy traffic and related delays.
x) NEGOTIATE (or accept) ISSUES ABOUT ANY NEEDED REPAIRS OR SIGNIFICANT DEFECTS
If you find issues that need attention, that isn't a deal killer. Depending on what the issue is, you can probably use the issue and your condition / appraisal report to negotiate a lower price... something to offset part or all of the needed repair.
Just remember, a good appraiser or professional who inspects the truck will find things like small leaks in some the seals (e.g. maybe the rear main seal), or a list of other problems with the truck. All used cars and trucks have some issues with them, and there are many small issues that are often very common.
Only pros find them, if you or I looked at the truck, we would probably never notice, and be aware that many of these small items don't need repair, and the dealer or private seller probably WON'T agree to fix them. A big leak, or a serious or problem is one thing. Small seepage, for example, is common on many vehicles, and probably isn't a problem. If you aren't sure, ask the person you sent to check out the truck for their opinion. For example, ask them if they think you need to have it fixed, ask if you should be concerned about the issue, and ask them if *they* were thinking of buying the truck for their own use, would it be an issue to them.
xi) GET INSURANCE (get or confirm shipping insurance, if applicable). AGREE ON PAYMENT DETAILS.
If you have the truck shipped, make sure the truck is insured, especially against loss or damage during the transport. This is (probably) separate from your regular car insurance policy. The last thing that you want is to have a car damaged or even totaled during shipping, and then run into a hassle over who's responsible, and who has to pay for the loss!
Also, ask the dealer (or private seller) how they would like you to handle paying them, and follow their lead.
It's a common scam for out of state buyers to try to buy a car, have it shipped, and walk away with both the car and money in their pocket in the form of a refund from an "over payment".
By letting the dealer tell you how the transaction will happen, they won't think that you are simply trying to scam them.
xii) BE CAREFUL SENDING MONEY TO A PRIVATE SELLER (Consider picking up in person or using a LEGITIMATE escrow service such as escrow.com)
If you are dealing with a private seller, you have to be a little more careful in the balance of things... meaning, you don't want to wire money to a private seller
who is really scamming you. Maybe they'll keep your money. Maybe they don't even own the truck? I haven't put a lot of thought into dealing with a private seller via a long-distance sale. I don't think I'd be afraid to do such a transaction, I would just make sure that I'm being duly cautious. ebay has a page
here that speaks about using
escrow.com as a service to buy a car or truck from a long distance. I would probably use that if I were buying from a private seller. I would point them to ebay as a reference to let them know that this is a legitimate service, and that it protects BOTH parties in the transaction.
xiii) IF BUYING FROM A CAR DEALER, DO SOME *BASIC* CHECKS ON DEALER
If using a dealer, I would check a few things, just to see if the dealer seems legit and trustworthy. I'm not talking about going overboard here. Just enough simple checks to know if you're dealing with someone who has a reputation for being a shyster. Check their web page to see how many cars they have. If they don't have at least a few dozen, then you know they are very small, and you might not find much more info good or bad about them. I would see if they sell on ebay, and if so look at their feedback, and I would do a quick search on the dealer's name, just to see if there is a common theme of them being untrustworthy. If the dealer has a lot, has at least a few dozen cars, and seems legitimate, I would be inclined to work with them... as long as they aren't in New York City!!! (I mean that. I'm from New York City, and there are some USED CAR LOTS in the city that re-assemble salvage cars from parts... and do a poor job at it quality wise... then they paint them, make them look really nice, mis-represent the car's history, and sell them to unsuspecting victims! I wouldn't expect this issue from any of the dealers that also sell new cars. Ford, Chevy, Honda, Toyota, etc... these guys aren't a problem in that way. But some of the independent lots are bad news, and it's hard to tell the good from the bad, so be gone, or at least be careful !)
*** Note: If you (the person reading this), own or work for a used car dealership in New York City, OF COURSE I'm not talking about YOUR shop, or any of the ones where your friends work. :happy: I'm talking about those OTHER shops. You know... the bad ones, that are dishonest. Not the good ones like your shop. Keep up the good work. :yo: :yo: :yo:
xiv) MAKE SURE BIG TICKET ITEMS WERE ADDRESSED
Lastly, there are certain BIG TICKET maintenance items that some cars and trucks need to have done.
For example, on the V8 4th Gen 4Runners, the timing belt and water pump need to be changed at about 90,000 miles. If the Truck has close to this, then realize that you're gonna have this bill coming up soon. If it has 90K or more, verify that this maintenance was done. If you can't get it verified, then assume that it hasn't been done, and use this to negotiate a discount from the seller for at least part of the price. Ask a local shop how much they charge for this maintenance, and then look up Toyota's recommend service intervals on line, and share the info with the seller (as a screen shot or PDF document). This lends credibility to your claim.
xv) HAVE FUN !!!
You're getting a new truck. This should be a fun experience. Enjoy it !!!
That's all I have for now... (hope it helps someone).
In my next post, I'll share some info on how I chose to keep track of the Trucks that I was considering.
-Philip
eace:
