alignment question

[robb1887]

So I just did a ball joint replacement and they accidentally sent me two driver side ones. Well I also did otres so my alignment is all out of whack. If I get it aligned today and then replace the passenger LBJ this week the alignment shouldn't change right?

Also have a set of 99 rear springs to put in soon too. Again this shouldn't mess with alignment right?

I just rather not miss work if I can get it aligned today and not have to redo it when I can get the parts swapped this week later.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mcaz5]

So I just did a ball joint replacement and they accidentally sent me two driver side ones. Well I also did otres so my alignment is all out of whack. If I get it aligned today and then replace the passenger LBJ this week the alignment shouldn't change right?

Also have a set of 99 rear springs to put in soon too. Again this shouldn't mess with alignment right?

I just rather not miss work if I can get it aligned today and not have to redo it when I can get the parts swapped this week later.

Thanks in advance.

I'm actually in mid-process of doing LBJs right now myself. But from my understanding anytime you mess with the front end you should get an alignment. The old LBJs are worn and will probably sit different then the new ones and if you get your alignment adjusted to the old worn out ones, and then you stick new ones in, the alignment will be off. That's just my understanding from reading a few other threads around here.

If you swapped rear springs, you would NOT need an alignment. Only when you mess with the front suspension.

 

[Kurtis]

So I just did a ball joint replacement and they accidentally sent me two driver side ones. Well I also did otres so my alignment is all out of whack. If I get it aligned today and then replace the passenger LBJ this week the alignment shouldn't change right?

Also have a set of 99 rear springs to put in soon too. Again this shouldn't mess with alignment right?

I just rather not miss work if I can get it aligned today and not have to redo it when I can get the parts swapped this week later.

Thanks in advance.

They should be able to get it back in alignment. That is their job and what you are paying for. Replacing the LBJ would have a minimum affect on it but it is still recommended that you get an alignment after LBJ replacement. I would get an alignment after a LBJ replacement.

As for the 99 springs it will not affect your alignment.

 

[chuck norris]

They should be able to get it back in alignment. That is their job and what you are paying for. Replacing the LBJ would have a minimum affect on it but it is still recommended that you get an alignment after LBJ replacement. I would get an alignment after a LBJ replacement.

As for the 99 springs it will not affect your alignment.

Changing rear springs WILL affect your front end alignment, as it will reduce measured camber and change measured toe-in as the rear end of the truck raises up.

BUT... going from a stock 96-98 4runner spring to a 99 tall spring is a pretty small difference so I probably wouldn't worry too much about it. If it's a sacked out 2001-02 short spring and a new 99 tall spring, then that will be close to 2" of difference and maybe worth worrying about.

EDIT: I have a feeling I'm going to have to explain this anyway... Alignment measurements are taken relative to flat, level ground. If you raise the rear end of the truck, say, 2", that will effectively change the angle of truck relative to the same level ground by over 1 degree. This effectively rotates your whole front suspension forward. The changes may be negligible, but if your alignment is borderline it may change things enough to worry about.

 

[Kurtis]

Changing rear springs WILL affect your front end alignment, as it will reduce measured camber and change measured toe-in as the rear end of the truck raises up.

BUT... going from a stock 96-98 4runner spring to a 99 tall spring is a pretty small difference so I probably wouldn't worry too much about it. If it's a sacked out 2001-02 short spring and a new 99 tall spring, then that will be close to 2" of difference and maybe worth worrying about.

EDIT: I have a feeling I'm going to have to explain this anyway... Alignment measurements are taken relative to flat, level ground. If you raise the rear end of the truck, say, 2", that will effectively change the angle of truck relative to the same level ground by over 1 degree. This effectively rotates your whole front suspension forward. The changes may be negligible, but if your alignment is borderline it may change things enough to worry about.

This is true. However, I said 99 tall springs would not affect your alignment. It would affect your front alignment as much as towing a trailer would by compressing your rear springs and I don't see anyone running out to get there 4Runner aligned with a trailer hooked up.

 

[chuck norris]

This is true. However, I said 99 tall springs would not affect your alignment. It would affect your front alignment as much as towing a trailer would by compressing your rear springs and I don't see anyone running out to get there 4Runner aligned with a trailer hooked up.

Gotcha. I was just pointing out that since the OP is dealing with getting an alignment anyway, it may be worth it to do all of the suspension work in one shot and get his alignment perfect the first time. That's what I'd do. :tea:

 

[nissanh]

Get the firestone life time alignment plan at $175 and you can get an alignment everyday!

 

[robb1887]

Yea, I figured it would be best to wait...

stupid Toyota sending the wrong stuff...

Guess I'll "call in" tomorrow to get my truck up and running again.

 

[chuck norris]

get the firestone life time alignment plan at $175 and you can get a crappy alignment everyday!

Fixed it for ya. :biggrin2:

 

[mikebontoft]

I'd just get it done after it's all replaced.

Also... you sure raising the rear end affects front camber and not caster?

 

[chuck norris]

I'd just get it done after it's all replaced.

Also... you sure raising the rear end affects front camber and not caster?

Imagine this purely hypothetical example...

You have a truck sitting level, with 45 degrees of camber and no toe-in. Now raise the rear end of the truck... and keep raising it until you reach 45 degrees (I said hypothetical ). Some of that camber will now be measured as toe-in as the measurements are taken level to the ground. Please don't ask me how much as I don't feel like doing 3D Trig calculations right now.

With the small angles that our trucks use the changes will be minute, but alignments are minute so I would consider it enough to worry about.

 

[mikebontoft]

I didn't mention anything about toe lol. If you lift the rear end, caster will become more negative. I know you know this, just trying to mess with you I think.

If we are talking extreme angles like that, then of course it will change. in a normal situation, raising the rear should hardly affect front camber. But yes, camber and toe are tied to each other to an extent.

 

[hrt4me]

Get the Firestone lifetime alignment plan at $175 and you can get a crappy alignment everyday!

Fixed it for ya. :biggrin2:

is Firestone really so bad such that its lifetime alignment is not worth it?

and if so, then which shop(s) would you recommend as an alternative?
or with what specific criteria would you select a shop to do your alignment?

 

[mikebontoft]

it just depends on the guy doing the alignment. True for anywhere. I think the more common thing is to throw the n00bs on tire duty or alignments. These alignment machines have on-screen instructions that someone can at least figure out without too much trouble. What they lack is the actual knowledge of steering and suspension systems, and what factors affect their outcomes.

Long story short, you get a bunch of guys saying "Look! your alignment is in the green, it's good!" and that's all they know.

 

[robb1887]

Long story short, you get a bunch of guys saying "Look! your alignment is in the green, it's good!" and that's all they know.

This...

I took it to a shop I've had to a little work before (mount and balance kinda stuff) since they were open late and could make it there in time.

After an almost 2 hour wait, the tech tried to imply that I had run into something and bent my LCA because my camber was minorly positive.

I told him it was most likely from just replacing the 16 year old/167k mile ball joints, he then tried to tell me that that couldn't affect camber.

This is when I told him to just dial it in, and I'll roll with it.

 

[chuck norris]

is Firestone really so bad such that its lifetime alignment is not worth it?

and if so, then which shop(s) would you recommend as an alternative?
or with what specific criteria would you select a shop to do your alignment?

Find an independently owned shop that works on lifted trucks, hot rods, and other performance cars. Ask around if you can't find any. Talk to local 4x4 shops or tuner shops to see who they use. I found my alignment shop through a friend who is also my parts guy.

Avoid any national chain.