America and the Justice System

[canterm]

Ok everyone, not sure how many people have followed the Troy A. Davis saga, but it really makes me question if America is really the best country. I also am beginning to question my decision to practice law as a result of this.

Any justice system is inherently flawed because humans will make mistakes. This is why, although as heart breaking as it is I can understand and cope with people wrongfully convicted. There is nothing that can be done to prevent this, although systems can be instituted to minimize this risk.

What I do have a problem with and cannot comprehend for the life of me is why when a man is convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death why nothing is done to stop/delay the execution when credible evidence is presented suggesting that the conviction at trial was severely flawed. I have taken the time to read through the majority of court testimony and documents and what is clear is that a man was convicted of murder almost entirely based on witness testimony and that 7 out of 9 of the witnesses recanted their testimony and offered sworn affidativis that they were coerced into giving false testimony. Of the two remaining witnesses one of them is a potential suspect. Does this prove Mr. Davis is innocent; no it does not. However, if the state of GA did not have the original testimony of the witnesses that recanted their would not have been sufficient evidence to reach the conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. What did the state gain by executing Mr. Davis the evening of 9/21? The answer is nothing, but added hatred (and rightfully so) from our allies.

The solution was simple. The GA courts, GA governor, or the US Supreme Court could have and should have unquestionably issued a stay of execution until further investigation could have been done because chances are an innocent man was put to death by the government. However, Supreme Court Justice Scalia believes the finality of a court judgment (hear the death sentence order) is more important than mercy. Well we are not talking about mercy we are talking about taking the time to seek the truth to prevent a miscarriage of justice.
:ybrick:

 

[canterm]

Ok so GA's system is slightly different in that the governor cannot grant clemency to a death row inmate according to GA Constitution, the power is reserved to the board of pardons and parole. However the board could have, the US Supreme Court, or GA Supreme Court still could have.

 

[Nervo19]

Did you even read the brief of his original trial or the briefs of his appeals? Come back when you have. I had to reserve judgemant until I read them.

His lawyers are raising questions on the TV/internet campaign that they never raised in court.

If you are so quick to believe a publicity campaign you have no business practicing law.

 

[canterm]

Nervo19, I have taken the opportunity to read through the vast majority of documents including the briefs on Westlaw so its not a publicity campaign I am buying into. Secondly, remember during the trial against Davis the defense had to argue based on the evidence the state was presenting at trial.

I think almost any member of the Bar would conclude that had the witnesses whom recanted not testified that Davis would not have been convicted. Again, I am not arguing that Davis is innocent, but rather according to the evidence available today there is serious doubt and deserved more deliberation before passing judgment on Mr. Davis.

I have seen first hand and been partially responsible for individuals on Maryland's Deathrow being exonerated. Mistakes do and will continue to happen, I was and am still just advocating that our Justice system takes the time to deliberate especially when the pardon board refuses to reevaluate credible doubt.

Lastly, I question you what was the harm in further evaluating the case before proceeding with the execution. Do you have access to all of the court documents, if not I can send them from Lexis or Westlaw.

 

[Thai]

Wasn't this over a period of 15-20 years or so where his repeated appeals were denied by every level of the court system??? His case got a lot of time in the court system at every level, didn't it??? His lawyers never made a convincing case.

 

[Thai]

it really makes me question if America is really the best country.

What did the state gain by executing Mr. Davis the evening of 9/21? The answer is nothing, but added hatred (and rightfully so) from our allies.

I hear that Iran has an excellent court system and is personally requesting that you practice law over there....:infidel:

 

[canterm]

I hear that Iran has an excellent court system and is personally requesting that you practice law over there....:infidel:

lol Thai thats a good one. You couldn't pay me enough to practice there. There would be nothing worse than having someone convicted and sentenced to death their for what we see as a relatively minor offense. However i think the most aggregious system I have seen is some of the third world countries in Africa that have no issues with sentencing an infant to prison. So yes I am proud to be an American.:thumb3:

Also I dont have to be rich, but I dont believe the salary for attorneys is any good outside the US, UK and some other major European markets. I do as much pro bono as possible but lets just say the student loans are not small.

Maybe I came off as being too cynical, but I just think the US is capable of being better. We think we are the best, and may be at somethings but we can learn from other countries.

Thai, sidenote what part of TX are you from? I am originally from Houston.

 

[Thai]

Maybe I came off as being too cynical, but I just think the US is capable of being better. We think we are the best, and may be at somethings but we can learn from other countries.

Thai, sidenote what part of TX are you from? I am originally from Houston.

We ARE the best, esp. at keeping people off the electric chair. Is there a country that lets someone sit for over 20 years (leeching off our tax money) in our jail system after killing someone in cold blood?? (This is not meant for the Davis guy, but in general sense.) Hell, screw sitting in jail, look at OJ Simpson and numerous other murderers who got off clean!!

I am near Houston.

 

[zstampe]

We are focusing on the wrong thing here I think guys. What about Officer McPhail that gave his life in the line of duty and left behind a young wife and 2 year old daughter. Regardless of who pulled the trigger Davis was with the wrong crowd at the wrong time.....does that mean he should've been executed??? Who knows.... None of us can judge that, we weren't part of the trial or the agency that investigated etc etc. In my career path it's so tough seeing a fellow firefighter or police officer give their life in the line of duty. We just have to remember that Officer McPhail gave his life protecting others and all parties involved had their lives changed forever that day.

Godspeed to officer McPhail and all others killed in the line of duty.

 

[Thai]

We are focusing on the wrong thing here I think guys. What about Officer McPhail that gave his life in the line of duty and left behind a young wife and 2 year old daughter. Regardless of who pulled the trigger Davis was with the wrong crowd at the wrong time.....does that mean he should've been executed??? Who knows.... None of us can judge that, we weren't part of the trial or the agency that investigated etc etc. In my career path it's so tough seeing a fellow firefighter or police officer give their life in the line of duty. We just have to remember that Officer McPhail gave his life protecting others and all parties involved had their lives changed forever that day.

Godspeed to officer McPhail and all others killed in the line of duty.

Agree 100%. I did not see any riots or crying-&-rolling-on-the-ground festivals because this officer died trying to help someone else. :ybrick:

 

[canterm]

zstampe--I know I may get heat for this. I have the utmost respect for firefighters--they are my heros as I have had personal encounters with them when my house burnt down in 2006. They risked their lives to save my home (and the vast majority of them were volunteers. Now for police officers, well I do feel for them as their are many good officers and obviously deserve to be safe, but in my experience I have come across some ones (as in any profession) that were less than honest, etc. I know a lot of people look up to sports stars, etc but my heros are the firefighters and those who serve our country in the military. Thanks again Zstampe

Thai--First hello to a fellow Houston guy. I hear you loud and clear on spending our tax dollars to incarcerate criminals and for trying cases to have only a clearly guilty person walk. I am not against the death penalty or swift justice in general (hell I like the laws in states were you can just shoot an intruder without having to first retreat) but the problem is inmates sit on death row for several years (often 10+) before the death sentence is actually carried out. Yes its better to have the inmate only leach off of us taxpayers for 10 years as opposed to the rest of their natural lives. However, although it would never happen I would advocate to forcing the inmates to work from behind bars (some sort of factory work set up in the prison) or to otherwise fund their room and board. Way the hell should I have to pay for my home and food if they are capable of working? Now I do wonder why the US has such a high level of crime compared to other western European nations. I wonder how much of this has to do with poverty?

 

[zstampe]

zstampe--I know I may get heat for this. I have the utmost respect for firefighters--they are my heros as I have had personal encounters with them when my house burnt down in 2006. They risked their lives to save my home (and the vast majority of them were volunteers. Now for police officers, well I do feel for them as their are many good officers and obviously deserve to be safe, but in my experience I have come across some ones (as in any profession) that were less than honest, etc. I know a lot of people look up to sports stars, etc but my heros are the firefighters and those who serve our country in the military. Thanks again Zstampe

Thai--First hello to a fellow Houston guy. I hear you loud and clear on spending our tax dollars to incarcerate criminals and for trying cases to have only a clearly guilty person walk. I am not against the death penalty or swift justice in general (hell I like the laws in states were you can just shoot an intruder without having to first retreat) but the problem is inmates sit on death row for several years (often 10+) before the death sentence is actually carried out. Yes its better to have the inmate only leach off of us taxpayers for 10 years as opposed to the rest of their natural lives. However, although it would never happen I would advocate to forcing the inmates to work from behind bars (some sort of factory work set up in the prison) or to otherwise fund their room and board. Way the hell should I have to pay for my home and food if they are capable of working? Now I do wonder why the US has such a high level of crime compared to other western European nations. I wonder how much of this has to do with poverty?

Thanks for the kind words. Means a lot to hear appreciative people, it is just a fun job for the most part too. ;-)


On the other points you said......you hit the nail on the head. Hell there are people in prison just for the free cable, food, heat/Ac, healthcare etc etc. I couldn't agree more with you.

 

[Thai]

zstampe--I know I may get heat for this. I have the utmost respect for firefighters--they are my heros as I have had personal encounters with them when my house burnt down in 2006. They risked their lives to save my home (and the vast majority of them were volunteers. Now for police officers, well I do feel for them as their are many good officers and obviously deserve to be safe, but in my experience I have come across some ones (as in any profession) that were less than honest, etc. I know a lot of people look up to sports stars, etc but my heros are the firefighters and those who serve our country in the military. Thanks again Zstampe

Thai--First hello to a fellow Houston guy. I hear you loud and clear on spending our tax dollars to incarcerate criminals and for trying cases to have only a clearly guilty person walk. I am not against the death penalty or swift justice in general (hell I like the laws in states were you can just shoot an intruder without having to first retreat) but the problem is inmates sit on death row for several years (often 10+) before the death sentence is actually carried out. Yes its better to have the inmate only leach off of us taxpayers for 10 years as opposed to the rest of their natural lives. However, although it would never happen I would advocate to forcing the inmates to work from behind bars (some sort of factory work set up in the prison) or to otherwise fund their room and board. Way the hell should I have to pay for my home and food if they are capable of working? Now I do wonder why the US has such a high level of crime compared to other western European nations. I wonder how much of this has to do with poverty?

Well, for police officers, i agree that there are a few bad ones, but it is a high stress job, even if 99% of the time, it is just traffic tickets...but it only takes 1% to make you stress out the rest of the time. Even though i hate traffic tickets, i do appreciate cops for what they do...even if they may take their time going to a crime scene...but wouldn't you too if you were in their shoes (and at the salary that they are making)??

Like you said, there is a bad apple in every profession...so, you shouldn't lose faith in them just because of a few bad apples.

Now, if only we have gun-totting lynch mobs around, then all will be well! :gun6: (jk!)

As for the military and firefighters, :iagree: