Apple iPhone 8/X and A11

No, you write it out because this is AGAIN your avoidance/deflection tactics. So you can say "no I never said that", like you always do.

You're an idiot. STFU. Thanks dude.

Moving on (again), how FaceID works: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2017/09/16/how-face-id-works-apple-iphone-x/#24d0c3d6624d

From article:

"Here are the steps for image capture:

1. The proximity sensor and ambient light sensor help the TrueDepth camera system determine how much illumination will be needed for face recognition;

2. The flood illuminator produces infrared (IR) light, part of the electromagnetic spectrum that's invisible to the naked eye, to illuminate your face;

3. The dot projector produces more than 30,000 dots of invisible IR light to create a three-dimensional map (for area and depth) of your facial landscape;

4. The infrared camera captures images of the dot pattern and the IR light (a heat signature) that's been reflected back from your face.

When a biometric system is set up, a computer -- such as the processor in your smartphone -- will capture and store the reference patterns, known as a template or 'enrolment image'. Then when you want to access a device (e.g. unlock your phone), you present the computer with a 'verification image'.

"Internally it computes a score between 0 and 1," says Jain. "If it's closer to 1, that means it's the same fingerprint or face. If it's closer to 0, it's not the same person."

As the enrolment and verification images won't be identical due to differences in capture conditions, your phone uses a threshold to determine whether they're significantly different. A comparison score of 0.7 might be close enough under some scenarios, for example, and that minimum score is not a fixed number.

All the calculations happen too fast for you to notice, thanks to the power of smartphone processors. iPhone X uses a 'Neural Engine' that, as Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller boasted, "can perform over 600 billion operations per second, and it's used to do real-time processing of Face ID recognition."

Here are the steps for face recognition:

1. The IR images are sent from the camera to iPhone X's 'Neural Engine' computer processor to build a 3D mathematical model (map) of your face;

2. The 3D model or 'verification image' is presented to the computer's algorithms and compared against your stored template or 'enrolment image';

3. The processor calculates whether the verification and enrolment images match, based on a comparison score of similarity between your images;

4. The phone authenticates your identity and unlocks (or authorises a payment) if the comparison score is higher than a certain threshold value.

Better face recognition occurs thanks to so-called 'neural' technology. Schiller said that iPhone X's Neural Engine is "specialised hardware built for a specific set of machine learning algorithms" and Apple "developed multiple neural networks to create Face ID." What does all that technobabble really mean?

Machine learning algorithms are the instructions that allow machines to adapt, while an artificial neural network is a computer system inspired by the brain, whose interconnected structures (particularly neurons) provide the incredible processing power that enables an animal to learn and adapt to its surroundings.

Precisely how Apple's machine learning and neural network actually work isn't important, only that it lets Face ID continually update its algorithm so that it's able to recognize you when your appearance changes."
 
[MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION] and you're inability to even admit the possibility speaks volumes of your religious fanaticism. Glad we've worked that out. Thanks for admitting it for everyone Thai. :)
 
[MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION] and you're inability to even admit the possibility speaks volumes of your religious fanaticism. Glad we've worked that out. Thanks for admitting it for everyone Thai. :)

Let me remind you again...last time regarding this:

I will admit that i defend Apple's current software AND hardware performance. Nothing more, nothing less. I have NEVER made claims about Apple's ethical standards or past issues.

Please respect what i have written many times already. It is not hard to understand.

Now, PLEASE STICK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND. If you don't have anything intelligent to add to the TOPIC AT HAND, then kindly STFU. :thumb3:

:cheers:
 
Holy shit. Thanks for the laughs guys.

We do what we can, because we're two crank old ****s. :)

~

@thai

Would you happen to know how well this system works when facial features are adjusted? I know in older systems one could use prosthetic to adjust the distance between eyes or the bridge of the nose and it would confuse the systems enough as they based that as a constant structure.

Also you posted a picture of someone using a sleeping face, are you saying FaceID needs to see eyes to function? I mean, and bear with me here as it's a rather extreme example; but would the head need to be alive or just have it's eyes open to "pass" facial recognition? I'm curious about the extent of the biometric verification there.

Post Note-
Respect goes both ways, you don't get any as you don't put any out. Period.
 
Last edited:
@Thai

You do realize face unlock is nothing new. It's been buried in AOSP code since 2012 and went live in 2015. It's not new. It's only new to those with an iPhone.

I'm not here to get into the Apple vs Android debate. Both have there pros and cons.

I use an Android phone but own tons of Apple stock. lol
 
@Thai

You do realize face unlock is nothing new. It's been buried in AOSP code since 2012 and went live in 2015. It's not new. It's only new to those with an iPhone.

I'm not here to get into the Apple vs Android debate. Both have there pros and cons.

I use an Android phone but own tons of Apple stock. lol

To be fair though, FaceID is actually essentially doing a 3D scan of your face vs. trying to extrapolate a 3D model from a 2D picture (one of the reasons why Samsung had an early issue with printed pictures confusing their system). The basic concept has existed for a while, but the technology that underpins FaceID is fairly new as a cohesive package. For the most part when you're talking about FaceID you're talking about the whole technology package, not just the use of a face to unlock.
 
We do what we can, because we're two crank old ****s. :)

~

@thai

Would you happen to know how well this system works when facial features are adjusted? I know in older systems one could use prosthetic to adjust the distance between eyes or the bridge of the nose and it would confuse the systems enough as they based that as a constant structure.

Also you posted a picture of someone using a sleeping face, are you saying FaceID needs to see eyes to function? I mean, and bear with me here as it's a rather extreme example; but would the head need to be alive or just have it's eyes open to "pass" facial recognition? I'm curious about the extent of the biometric verification there.

Post Note-
Respect goes both ways, you don't get any as you don't put any out. Period.

FaceID, according to above links, needs to see eyes, nose, and mouth for it to authenticate. So, someone with a mask cannot use FaceID. But it will work with most sunglasses and with all eye glasses.

And you need to be paying attention for it to unlock. The picture of the guy sleeping was NOT posted by me. I just quoted that person and answered. No, FaceID will NOT unlock with a sleeping head.

So, if you have major plastic surgery, then you need to rescan your face. Remember, you still have passcode as your backup...and there are other times where passcode is required too.

If you chop off someone’s head as in ISIS and then somehow open his eyes and show it to the victim’s iPhone X, then yeah, i can see the iPhone opening up. But, if that is the case, then the victim has bigger issues to deal with!

But, with TouchID, couldn’t you just chop off a finger? Same with iris scanner.

Yeah, so, in extreme cases, you can bypass it using extreme measures.

I am sure White House iPhone X (if avail) won’t have FaceID active.
 
FaceID, according to above links, needs to see eyes, nose, and mouth for it to authenticate. So, someone with a mask cannot use FaceID. But it will work with most sunglasses and with all eye glasses.

And you need to be paying attention for it to unlock. The picture of the guy sleeping was NOT posted by me. I just quoted that person and answered. No, FaceID will NOT unlock with a sleeping head.

So, if you have major plastic surgery, then you need to rescan your face. Remember, you still have passcode as your backup...and there are other times where passcode is required too.

If you chop off someone’s head as in ISIS and then somehow open his eyes and show it to the victim’s iPhone X, then yeah, i can see the iPhone opening up. But, if that is the case, then the victim has bigger issues to deal with!

But, with TouchID, couldn’t you just chop off a finger? Same with iris scanner.

Yeah, so, in extreme cases, you can bypass it using extreme measures.

I am sure White House iPhone X (if avail) won’t have FaceID active.

I was curious if the system was focused on a "fixed point" for reference, some systems prior to FaceID used the width between eyes or the bridge of the nose as a reference point and modifying just that could confuse them. Nice to see it's using more data points as references.

As for the head thing, yeah that guy sounds like he'd have a tough day. :P

I was more curious if they're using the actual IR temperature data to determine if a face is "alive" vs. say a wax/prosthetic bust. How exactly does it determine if you're "paying attention" to it, just eye contact? or angle of the head in relative nature of the cameras (also how critical is angle to the cameras? did they calculate an adjustment for that or does the face need to be perfectly perpendicular to the sensor array now that I think about it?).

Was more interested in the technology itself than it's use as verification for a phone.
 
@Thai

You do realize face unlock is nothing new. It's been buried in AOSP code since 2012 and went live in 2015. It's not new. It's only new to those with an iPhone.

I'm not here to get into the Apple vs Android debate. Both have there pros and cons.

I use an Android phone but own tons of Apple stock. lol

Is Tesla innovative? I don’t think so. Ford Model T from 1908...and it too has 4 wheels!!!

FaceID vs. the crappy facial recognition on Android...there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in technology, security, and speed.

And this is why facial recognition on Android never caught on...and has never been used to authenticate anything. (Samsung IRIS scanner can be used i believe.)
 
I was curious if the system was focused on a "fixed point" for reference, some systems prior to FaceID used the width between eyes or the bridge of the nose as a reference point and modifying just that could confuse them. Nice to see it's using more data points as references.

As for the head thing, yeah that guy sounds like he'd have a tough day. :P

I was more curious if they're using the actual IR temperature data to determine if a face is "alive" vs. say a wax/prosthetic bust. How exactly does it determine if you're "paying attention" to it, just eye contact? or angle of the head in relative nature of the cameras (also how critical is angle to the cameras? did they calculate an adjustment for that or does the face need to be perfectly perpendicular to the sensor array now that I think about it?).

Was more interested in the technology itself than it's use as verification for a phone.

I think that some of your questions need to wait for the phone to come out and more scientists/hackers test it.

Apple claims that a Hollywood mask of a person would NOT work on FaceID.

Apple FaceID apparently uses 30,000 IR points to scan and then use Neural Chip with AI to authenticate. So, the system will “grow” with your face as it learns your face with every scan that you do. And this is where AI is important because it is able to LEARN and ADAPT.

I believe that it will authenticate at various angles...as long as it sees eyes, nose, and mouth to start scanning. So, you do NOT have to hold phone in front of face to authenticate. And from videos, it is fast!

Technology would be useless if it was not secure enough to authenticate!
 
Sadly, what i look forward to with FaceID vs. TouchID is that i can unlock my phone with wet hands!! :D

For the love of Teslas, i always need to unlock my phone for some reason after i wash my hands! :D
 
but would the head need to be alive or just have it's eyes open to "pass" facial recognition? I'm curious about the extent of the biometric verification there.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2owPsEONw7Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Sorry guys, didn't bother to read the pages of debating. Thai, I assume you are ordering the X? 64 or 256GB?

I'm seriously considering ordering as well. I'm still using a 6S and am still upset about the removal of the headphone jack, but my current phone is now two years old, the battery is not what it used to be and its starting to seem a little long in the tooth.

Now just hoping I get can an order in fast enough to get some of the initial supply.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/15/kgi-iphone-x-supply-demand-balance-2018/
 
Last edited:
Sorry guys, didn't bother to read the pages of debating. Thai, I assume you are ordering the X? 64 or 256GB?

I'm seriously considering ordering as well. I'm still using a 6S and am still upset about the removal of the headphone jack, but my current phone is now two years old, the battery is not what it used to be and its starting to seem a little long in the tooth.

Now just hoping I get can an order in fast enough to get some of the initial supply.

I will be getting 256GB because i just don’t think that i will have a chance to get 64GB due to huge demand.

Remember, it has the dongle included in all new iPhones. Or just go wireless. I have Airpods.

Good luck with pre-ordering...you (and me) will need it!
 
Last edited:
I will be getting 256GB because i just don’t think that i will have a chance to get 64GB due to huge demand.

Remember, it has the dongle included in all new iPhones. Or just go wireless. I have Airpods.

Good luck with pre-ordering...you (and me) will need it!

I've had better luck with pre-orders using the Apple store app on a phone or iPad. But you'll need to start hitting it hard at 3AM eastern and hope for the best. I'll wait. I don't want the first one off the airplane. I might just go pick up an iPhone 8 and use it for six months until supply catches up.
 
I've had better luck with pre-orders using the Apple store app on a phone or iPad. But you'll need to start hitting it hard at 3AM eastern and hope for the best. I'll wait. I don't want the first one off the airplane. I might just go pick up an iPhone 8 and use it for six months until supply catches up.

I will order thru Verizon site. Hopefully less traffic.
 
For me, i have ordered two things for my upcoming X: Ringke Onyx case + Zagg glass protector.

Anyone who has seen a good case, shout it out!
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
278,312
Messages
3,554,087
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top