Automatic or Manual for offroad?

[bluecollarjock]

I grew up on stick, always searched hard to get stick shift K5s and Chevy pickups....but back east growing up my wheeling was tons of mud bogs, and lots of muddy woods trails for full size trucks, or hitting deep snow trails....stick felt like more control, and seriously could do deep water crossing and mud bogs, and drain the tranny a year later with all kinds of crap coming out and it still worked flawless..my first auto I abused wheelign like I did my sticks, and burned out the tranny fast....fast forward to getting Jeeps, first one was stick, and doing some rock crawling and not being familiar with it was nerve racking, and difficult following guys who knew what they were doing, and had lockers etc....my next Jeep was/currently is a Rubicon, and with auto and lockers front and rear, I can crawl up rock stuff that guys in bigger Jeeps with stick and limited slips or open diffs gotta beat the snot out of their rigs, rock them, seeming to be wearing the crap out of the clutch and bouncing the vehicle all over.....so I dig the auto Rubicon for California wheeling....but if I were back east mud bogging alot, and deep snow trails, Id prefer a stick...

Just got a 98 4runner stick with rear locker, its my commuter...and I love it, even in LA/OC Cali traffic, feels more powerful than an auto Tj Rubicon, saves gas, saves brakes, more fun to drive, and I have not wheeled it yet but hope to do mild family wheeling in it, and will probably prefer not to be doing any gnarly rock climbing...more scenic wheeling, and if I ever move back east or somewhere else, Id look forward to hitting some snow and mud with it....and whether its true or not, I just feel like a manual will outlast an auto, Ive never had issues with a manual even with heavy abuse, auto trannies Ive fried a few in my heyday...

 

[Martinjmpr]

There are some who say that once you go to an automatic, you don't go back.

Well, that's not true. After 30+ years of manual transmissions, I reluctantly decided that my next rig had to be an automatic so the wife could drive it. When I went looking for my 4runner, and automatic was a requirement (of course, since most 3rd gen 4x4s are automatics, this made my search easier, too.) This was after spending 2+ years with an '04 Taco with the 3.4 V6 and a 5 speed manual.

So I got the automatic 4runner, and guess what? My wife has driven my vehicle exactly once in 2 1/2 years. For that reason, I've decided that if/when it is time to replace my 4runner, it will be with a manual transmission-equipped vehicle. Most likely a 4 door Taco or an Xterra, with an FJ Cruiser as a big "maybe" (I'm not crazy about the FJC's styling and it doesn't seem to have as much 'utility' as an X or a Taco.)

What I hate about the 4runners' Slushbox: Soaks up power, uses excess gas, transmission dipstick is a SOB to get back in (meaning I check it much less frequently than I should), it is a known weak link in an otherwise strong vehicle (the dreaded "pink milkshake") and it costs a fortune to repair/replace as compared to a manual.

Having come from a Taco with the 3.4, I know how powerful and fun this engine can be. But on the slushbox-equipped 4runner, it's a dog, especially going up a long incline. Also, descending a steep slope I use the brakes a LOT more on the 4runner than I did in the Taco, which I could put into low/low and just let it crawl.

Funny that I hear people saying "in traffic an auto is better." My daily driver (1997 Mazda Protege 4 door) is a 5 speed manual and I love it. For that matter, every vehicle I owned before 2003 had a manual transmission and I don't ever recall wishing for an auto, even in traffic. I think it really depends on your expectations.

I will say that an automatic transmission makes it much easier to talk/text/drink coffee/fiddle with the radio while you drive, but I'm not sure that's a good thing, especially to the other drivers on the road. When you're driving a manual transmission, you have to be "fully engaged" in what you are doing.

As far as a realistic comparison between the two types of transmissions, I would put it like this:

* For 80% of the time, there's no appreciable difference between manual and automatic and it's purely a matter of driver preference.

* For about 15% of the time the manual is superior because it allows you to crawl slowly or descend a steep slope using the gears instead of the brakes, and it allows you to select the best gear and stay in that gear.

* For about 5% of the time the automatic is superior because you don't have to pay attention to shifting and can concentrate on your line. Ascending a steep slope on rocky terrain is best done with an automatic because there is less chance of a wheel slipping when you change gears.

Obviously, that shows my pro-manual bias, but I've been driving off road for about 30 years now and I'm quite comfortable with a manual.

Consider also that in many parts of the world where being able to get through rough terrain can be the difference between life and death, they use manual transmissions exclusively (i.e. 3rd world countries) because they're mechanically reliable and can be repaired almost anywhere.

Compare this to the modern electronic and computer-controlled automatics that basically have to be sent back to the factory for repair, which means if you need repairs your dealer will pull out your old tranny and just swap in a new or rebuilt one (and rape your wallet in the process.)

 

[JohnsD90]

I really like the responses in this thread, but in the poll portion, i am wondering if everyone who voted know's how to drive a manual and has used both offroad, but i think Glen and Martinjumper summed it up pretty well that a poll shouldnt matter.

 

[theizzardking]

you guys do realize that on an auto you can still pick 1st and 2nd gears right, it's not just a [d] and [R] on there, so engine braking and being able to pick a gear isn't really an advantage of only a manual, auto's can do that as well.

to me the only real arguments for having a stick in a stock transmission set-up is the feel of it and being able to feather the clutch if you feel the need. obviously if your going dual t-cases or a built rig stick is the only way to go once your build and wheeling has reached that level, but on a stock rig i would go auto everytime as it's just easier and makes my wheeling experience that much more enjoyable.

But then again i'm a trail rider not a rock crawler and have no real need to feather the clutch that aggressively, simply shifting into low gear and working my brakes and gas seems to get the job quite well in my automatic.

for 98% of us mechanically it really makes no difference, it's a matter of taste and feel to the individual in the drivers seat nothing more.

 

[ameining]

There are some who say that once you go to an automatic, you don't go back.

Well, that's not true. After 30+ years of manual transmissions, I reluctantly decided that my next rig had to be an automatic so the wife could drive it. When I went looking for my 4runner, and automatic was a requirement (of course, since most 3rd gen 4x4s are automatics, this made my search easier, too.) This was after spending 2+ years with an '04 Taco with the 3.4 V6 and a 5 speed manual.

So I got the automatic 4runner, and guess what? My wife has driven my vehicle exactly once in 2 1/2 years. For that reason, I've decided that if/when it is time to replace my 4runner, it will be with a manual transmission-equipped vehicle. Most likely a 4 door Taco or an Xterra, with an FJ Cruiser as a big "maybe" (I'm not crazy about the FJC's styling and it doesn't seem to have as much 'utility' as an X or a Taco.)

What I hate about the 4runners' Slushbox: Soaks up power, uses excess gas, transmission dipstick is a SOB to get back in (meaning I check it much less frequently than I should), it is a known weak link in an otherwise strong vehicle (the dreaded "pink milkshake") and it costs a fortune to repair/replace as compared to a manual.

Having come from a Taco with the 3.4, I know how powerful and fun this engine can be. But on the slushbox-equipped 4runner, it's a dog, especially going up a long incline. Also, descending a steep slope I use the brakes a LOT more on the 4runner than I did in the Taco, which I could put into low/low and just let it crawl.

Funny that I hear people saying "in traffic an auto is better." My daily driver (1997 Mazda Protege 4 door) is a 5 speed manual and I love it. For that matter, every vehicle I owned before 2003 had a manual transmission and I don't ever recall wishing for an auto, even in traffic. I think it really depends on your expectations.

I will say that an automatic transmission makes it much easier to talk/text/drink coffee/fiddle with the radio while you drive, but I'm not sure that's a good thing, especially to the other drivers on the road. When you're driving a manual transmission, you have to be "fully engaged" in what you are doing.

As far as a realistic comparison between the two types of transmissions, I would put it like this:

* For 80% of the time, there's no appreciable difference between manual and automatic and it's purely a matter of driver preference.

* For about 15% of the time the manual is superior because it allows you to crawl slowly or descend a steep slope using the gears instead of the brakes, and it allows you to select the best gear and stay in that gear.

* For about 5% of the time the automatic is superior because you don't have to pay attention to shifting and can concentrate on your line. Ascending a steep slope on rocky terrain is best done with an automatic because there is less chance of a wheel slipping when you change gears.

Obviously, that shows my pro-manual bias, but I've been driving off road for about 30 years now and I'm quite comfortable with a manual.

Consider also that in many parts of the world where being able to get through rough terrain can be the difference between life and death, they use manual transmissions exclusively (i.e. 3rd world countries) because they're mechanically reliable and can be repaired almost anywhere.

Compare this to the modern electronic and computer-controlled automatics that basically have to be sent back to the factory for repair, which means if you need repairs your dealer will pull out your old tranny and just swap in a new or rebuilt one (and rape your wallet in the process.)

Could not agree more with every word in this. Well articulated

 

[bluecollarjock]

Yea some really nice posts here...I was just out driving my Rubicon and dwelling on this....most of the time in my Rubicon I wish it was the 6 speed stick...feels like it has way more power, more fun, etc...I miss my old 5 speed TJ at times even though it wasnt a Rubi and didnt have all the gingerbread I have on this one....but when Im in 405 Los Angeles traffic, im thankful for the auto...but if Im out on the I5 grapevine hilly highways, wish I had the stick....when Im in the rocks in Big Bear, I appreciate the auto....but most of the time, Im wishing it was a stick! I drove a stick shift TJ around DC which is worse than LA to me, but majority of time I didnt use it if I knew Id be stuck in traffic, and I loved banging through a 5 speed....as I said prior, my K5s and full size pickups were mostly stick and I loved them, especially for wheeling in PA and OH, lots of mud, woods, snow, and not worries about traffic, and those manuals took tons of abuse without a complaint...

In my 4runner, I love the 5 speed....probably wont rock crawl in it....dont mind too much havent been stuck in too bad traffic yet with it, but as someone said, it just keeps me from texting or drinking coffee (especially with those crappy 98 dashboard cupholders!)....

BUT a big point with any used 4x4 Ive bought...is whats the best deal!! When I was looking for a Rubicon, I didnt care stick or auto, I grabbed the one I thought was best bargain...same with 4runner, I kept looking for a 3rd gen with a locker and managed to surprisingly find one with a locker and 5 speed, with an owner who had all the records, and already had coilovers up front and OME springs +Bilstein shocks in back...so I snagged it...and am happy so far...

I guess maybe if I had more practice, Id be more confident in rocks with the manual like some folks are on here. As for traffic, I hate DC/LA/NYC kinds of traffic, and am hoping someday to live somewhere traffic jams arent an issue so I wont care about having an auto!!!

 

[Bamf_CT2004]

Funny that I hear people saying "in traffic an auto is better." My daily driver (1997 Mazda Protege 4 door) is a 5 speed manual and I love it. For that matter, every vehicle I owned before 2003 had a manual transmission and I don't ever recall wishing for an auto, even in traffic. I think it really depends on your expectations.

Come to Chicago and drive 5 days a week in rush hour "stop and go" traffic. Not slow traffic but stop and go where you litterally you stop for 10 seconds, drive about 20ft and stop for maybe 4 seconds, etc (stopage times and driving distances between stops vary) which can ranges from 7am to 7pm. You will be begging for an auto. Otherwise you'll be having knee surgery by the time your 40. I have driven in Denver traffic. Its nothing compared to Chicago

It just depends who you talk to about traffic. When I was in school in a rural part of IL there is now way I would want to have an auto in my car. But if you talk to people in rural areas about metro traffic, they just dont get it. Hence the reason why you havent recalled wanting an auto.

 

[ameining]

Come to Chicago and drive 5 days a week in rush hour "stop and go" traffic. Not slow traffic but stop and go where you litterally you stop for 10 seconds, drive about 20ft and stop for maybe 4 seconds, etc (stopage times and driving distances between stops vary) which can ranges from 7am to 7pm. You will be begging for an auto. Otherwise you'll be having knee surgery by the time your 40. I have driven in Denver traffic. Its nothing compared to Chicago

It just depends who you talk to about traffic. When I was in school in a rural part of IL there is now way I would want to have an auto in my car. But if you talk to people in rural areas about metro traffic, they just dont get it. Hence the reason why you havent recalled wanting an auto.

I can agree with the differences in traffic volumes for sure, I lived in Houston and it was the worst place in the world for many reasons. So I moved!

With this discussion getting somewhat heated, I think the easiest solution to the problem is to do what I did...move to the mountains and eliminate traffic all together!! :bigok:

 

[theizzardking]

I can agree with the differences in traffic volumes for sure, I lived in Houston and it was the worst place in the world for many reasons. So I moved!

With this discussion getting somewhat heated, I think the easiest solution to the problem is to do what I did...move to the mountains and eliminate traffic all together!! :bigok:

of course it's going to get heated, it always does, when in truth neither one is better, it's just which one is preferable to you. me i have a rule if it's meant to go fast, stick shift, if it's meant to go over or through things automatic.

i'm never going to race my runner and i'm never going to atlas or dual case my rig either so automatic all the way, i don't need to dump the clutch to try and beat anyone out in the runner, heck i'd get killed by a pruis anyways, so why try? i'd much rather be able to sit back , eat my big mac, fiddle with the radio and just enjoy the ride without making it work for myself by constantly having to shift.

also, let's talk about the service and life of each, barring the pink milkshake, i would say an automatic would last longer then a manual on average, as on average most drivers don't really know or really care to shift in a way that is
good for the clutch, thus burning it up quicker then realized, as opposed an automatic system where it's all set and it will shift when it is correct for the transmission to do so. and i know this point of contention is going to piss people off as everyone thinks "oh i know how to drive a stick and i shift fine everytime" fact of the matter that's not the case. As well as having on the other hand my 99 with 230k on the original transmission and cooler with no mods or upgrades. the automatics on these things as well as most other things are pretty bulletproof when properly maintained. but i digress, to me
this argument is kind of void, both can be reliable and repair shouldn't be as much of an issue as current condition, meaning, when looking at buying and weighting auto vs stick, neither one is better then the other if both are in good condition. and repair on the trail and 3rd world countries.... either one your fubar'd if they crap out on the trail, and in 3rd world countries dysentery is still a leading cause of death,do we really want to be like them?

don't get me wrong, i love stick shifts in fast sporty little cars where the driving experience in of it's self is meant to be the attraction , you know what i'm saying ,driving a stick and dropping down a gear just before you hit the corner and accelerating through the apex is an amazing feeling that you'll never get in an automatic, but let's be honest here, none of us are doing that in our 4runners here, and alot of you are suggesting that automatics are just simpler to use in most trail riding situations. so my view point on it is why have a stick on a dd truck/trail rider? i can see it if it was a trailer queen and built with dual cases and all of that other rad stuff, or a fast sporty little corner cruncher or drag car, but the 4runner is none of those things so why try? it's a luxury suv that is off road capable so why not have a little bit of luxury left in it and just relax with the automatic?

anyways, like i said in my first post, it's all about rider preference, neither one is really better then the other when looking at it on paper, it has more to do with driving style then anything else, valid arguments can be made for either side until we're in a online civil war, kind of like oil and tire threads but worse.....:lol::reddance:

 

[knoxuni]

here is a question. for a DD do it all. mudding and dirt roads and some crawling. is it a good idea to get auto or stick. reminder i am 16 can only afford to own one car at a time

 

[steezemcqueen]

here is a question. for a DD do it all. mudding and dirt roads and some crawling. is it a good idea to get auto or stick. reminder i am 16 can only afford to own one car at a time

did you read any of this thread?

 

[knoxuni]

yes I did i am leaning for a manual.

 

[JohnsD90]

driving a stick and dropping down a gear just before you hit the corner and accelerating through the apex is an amazing feeling that you'll never get in an automatic, but let's be honest here, none of us are doing that in our 4runners here...

Ummm, i beg to differ.

 

[Nelsonmd]

So then what exactly are you expecting for an answer? Tons of opinions here as to the strengths and weaknesses of each, which is better for DD vs off road. I can't imagine anyone being able to answer your question without just restating verbatim stuff in previous posts.

I think the question to be asked is "what do you want?" Only YOU can answer that question my son...

 

[theizzardking]

Ummm, i beg to differ.

says the kid who got side swiped in a jetta by an expedition, maybe you should have been driving your jetta like you drive your 4runner then! :gun4:

 

[JohnsD90]

says the kid who got side swiped in a jetta by an expedition, maybe you should have been driving your jetta like you drive your 4runner then! :gun4:

Can't hit the apex on a straight road.

 

[Nelsonmd]

says the kid who got side swiped in a jetta by an expedition, maybe you should have been driving your jetta like you drive your 4runner then! :gun4:

 

[J-money$$$]

learn to wheel whatever you happen to have.

 

[theizzardking]

Can't hit the apex on a straight road.

probably had to google that word :apex: .....:hatsoff:

again this is what the expedition did to you...

derail over the guardrail ....

 

[knoxuni]

I ended up deciding on a manual. just a bit more fun all around