Bad Idea Mods

[DannyLlama]

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ICON lift with Light Racing UCAs - I thought this was a big win. The parts were recently installed and looked brand new. But guess what? After driving and wheeling the ICONs for a few month I got a chance to drive the ARB 4Runner at Jambo and it finalized my decision. I prefer an OME setup so I did the swap over to OME. The best news, used ICONs sell for more than a brand new OME set up. Win-Win.

Really??! First time I hear a bad review of Icons

 

[Miguelon]

Modding your tow package to include a rooftop Gooseneck for hauling helicopters....

 

[RasJeff]

Modding your tow package to include a rooftop Gooseneck for hauling helicopters....

:shocked::wow2::faint2::wow::crazy::wtf::jaw:

 

[Misterquad]

Really??! First time I hear a bad review of Icons

I will only speak to my personal experience here.

 

[Jeremy556]

I will only speak to my personal experience here.

What didn't you like about them?
I have them, but don't love them. Will be re-valving or replacing them at some point.

 

[Jhalko]

Modding your tow package to include a rooftop Gooseneck for hauling helicopters....

Wow, I mean wow, I think I'm impressed actually.

 

[Jhalko]

You don't need a thread, try Google.

thanks for rehashing a post from long ago BTW.

you should dig up the other 300 post about wheel spacers and post your opinion there.

He didn't start a new thread, let's give some credit here.

 

[Misterquad]

What didn't you like about them?
I have them, but don't love them. Will be re-valving or replacing them at some point.

Ride Quality -
I guess I wanted it to absorb the bumps and dips differently. I am thinking it is better for high speed travel than the slower speed stuff I do as an old man.

I did bench test with Icon and OME shocks. Icons are hard to compress and fast returning to full extension. OME are easier to compress and slower returning to full extension. I am pretty sure the difference in dampening has a lot to do with my personal preference in ride.

Maintenance -
I wanted something I had faith in for the long haul. Icons needed a bit more attention and cleaning. I would hear faint chirping from the rear every month or so. I would need to WD-40 the shocks. My FJ's OME needed nothing in 2.5 years. I also like the idea of replacing suspension instead of rebuilding. Especially, when I buy 2 OME setups for the cost of the Icons. My truck is my DD and I cannot afford the downtime to remove, rebuild and replace Icons. That can take days if not weeks. I can swap an OME setup on a Saturday morning.

 

[Jeremy556]

Ride Quality -
I guess I wanted it to absorb the bumps and dips differently. I am thinking it is better for high speed travel than the slower speed stuff I do as an old man.

I did bench test with Icon and OME shocks. Icons are hard to compress and fast returning to full extension. OME are easier to compress and slower returning to full extension. I am pretty sure the difference in dampening has a lot to do with my personal preference in ride.

Maintenance -
I wanted something I had faith in for the long haul. Icons needed a bit more attention and cleaning. I would hear faint chirping from the rear every month or so. I would need to WD-40 the shocks. My FJ's OME needed nothing in 2.5 years. I also like the idea of replacing suspension instead of rebuilding. Especially, when I buy 2 OME setups for the cost of the Icons. My truck is my DD and I cannot afford the downtime to remove, rebuild and replace Icons. That can take days if not weeks. I can swap an OME setup on a Saturday morning.

Same here. They work great bombing down a desert road at 80mph, on nice smooth pavement at any speed, but an unpaved road at 10mph? Hold on to your fillings. I just finished replacing my spherical bearings, again, and blown 4 rear shocks from pitted shafts. On the bright side, I can now remove/reinstall the coilovers in under 30 minutes, including the KDSS swaybar.

I haven't made up my mind yet if I want to revalve these, or switch to something else. Have heard that they don't have documentation available for rebuilding or even specs for things like fluid volume, have to get a needle for the nitrogen charge, too. Not sure how forthcoming they would be with shims or advice for alternative shim stacks, either.

 

[Misterquad]

So in summary, I feel that any mod that reduces the reliability, longevity or causes new issues is a bad mod.

 

[Hadelson]

You don't need a thread, try Google.

Can spacers work if installed correctly to manufacture specs and check during routine maintenance? Sure; but most people do things halfazzed and seldom do followup maintenance. Combined with the fact, there are bad quality spacers out there, it just becomes a risk not worth taking. We won't even get into the negative affects to your vehicle.

bottom line, you can use spacers, and many people have and will continue to, but there are other safer ways to go about moving your tire outbound. But I get it, other ways cost more, take more time, and generally are a pain in the butt..... but that does not make spacers good, it just makes them easier.

thanks for rehashing a post from long ago BTW.

you should dig up the other 300 post about wheel spacers and post your opinion there.

FWIW, I ran 3" wheel spacers on my rock crawler for 3 years with zero problems, but most of the guys on here don't want spacers for the rock or the track, they want them to dive 80mph down the road every single day.

Hi Nate

Are you a real Pathfinder or is it a pretty avatar? Just curious........Anyhow, back to the thread. So we agree that anything mechanical will break if not used within design limitations and without proper maintenance (Damn, I sound like an Engineer-but I'm not)

So you performed maintenance and ran the 3" spacers within operating specs without issue. So your opinion is don't use: Is this based on a suspension failure resulting from stress induced by running the spacer you experienced or from others who had failures. Perhaps these failures resulted from poor maintenance and driving characteristics stressing the spacer outside operations spec envelope.

 

[Misterquad]

I have heard about Nathan for years through wheeling community. And we met and talked at length at Summit. And he is a real wheeler with an awesome set up. I can confirm that he has the experience and knows his stuff.

 

[Hadelson]

I have heard about Nathan for years through wheeling community. And we met and talked at length at Summit. And he is a real wheeler with an awesome set up. I can confirm that he has the experience and knows his stuff.

The question: Is he a Pathfinder "If he is, he will know what I am asking.

Respectfully

Hugo

http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/rtb/1-507th/pathfinder/content/pdf/pathfinder%20history.pdf

 

[Misterquad]

The question: Is he a Pathfinder "If he is, he will know what I am asking.

Respectfully

Hugo

http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/rtb/1-507th/pathfinder/content/pdf/pathfinder%20history.pdf

Hugo,
Sorry for the over-reaction. Past experience of these forums
I assumed the wrong thing from you.

 

[1engineer]

Hi Nate

Are you a real Pathfinder or is it a pretty avatar? Just curious........Anyhow, back to the thread. So we agree that anything mechanical will break if not used within design limitations and without proper maintenance (Damn, I sound like an Engineer-but I'm not)

So you performed maintenance and ran the 3" spacers within operating specs without issue. So your opinion is don't use: Is this based on a suspension failure resulting from stress induced by running the spacer you experienced or from others who had failures. Perhaps these failures resulted from poor maintenance and driving characteristics stressing the spacer outside operations spec envelope.

Nathan owns a company called Pathfinder, hence the avatar.
You are wrong. Mechanical components are used outside their normal design limits every day and don't break. Its called a Safety Factor.
The problem with wheel spacers, other than a PITA to check torque specs and visual inspections for fatigue, is the added bearing stress due to a longer lever arm. Make no mistake, you WILL decrease bearing life by running higher offset wheels or spacers. How much? Can't say because I didn't do the original calculations nor do I know the L10 life that Toyota designs for originally. I can only say that it will be less than running with no spacers. Several here have had to replace their wheel bearings already. Was it because of the spacer? Water crossings? Again I can't say but from experience I can say both of those conditions contributed to the failure. Nathan's right: How many guys do you know (besides race car mechanics) will inspect their wheel bearings for accelerated wear due to spacer use. Most guys don't even re grease after prolonged high water crossings and then they whine when they fail.

 

[Hadelson]

Nathan owns a company called Pathfinder, hence the avatar.
You are wrong. Mechanical components are used outside their normal design limits every day and don't break. Its called a Safety Factor.
The problem with wheel spacers, other than a PITA to check torque specs and visual inspections for fatigue, is the added bearing stress due to a longer lever arm. Make no mistake, you WILL decrease bearing life by running higher offset wheels or spacers. How much? Can't say because I didn't do the original calculations nor do I know the L10 life that Toyota designs for originally. I can only say that it will be less than running with no spacers. Several here have had to replace their wheel bearings already. Was it because of the spacer? Water crossings? Again I can't say but from experience I can say both of those conditions contributed to the failure. Nathan's right: How many guys do you know (besides race car mechanics) will inspect their wheel bearings for accelerated wear due to spacer use. Most guys don't even re grease after prolonged high water crossings and then they whine when they fail.

Thanks for the explanation on the Pathfinder Avatar. I earned mine as well so the basis of the question........So still waiting for MTBF Data and specific RCA to the failure determining if spacers are the cause -unsafe- a bad idea and shorten bearing life.........Might be that the added length is well within design spec and as you state and agree need to know the L10 life from Toyota to know when you exceed design parameters and go into safety factor. Without that, we are still operating on opine and hearsay. :blah:

 

[Misterquad]

Here is my personal experience with wheel spacers and positive offset wheels. I installed 1.25" spacers on my FJ at about 25,000 miles. I removed the spacers at about 60,000 miles and switched to ATX series wheels with a net positive offset of 24mm (~1in.) from stock. I had to replace my front driver wheel bearing at 70,000 miles. These were my first wheel spacers/offset wheels and it was my first wheel bearing replacement in 34 years of owning and driving modified vehicles.

 

[Hadelson]

Here is my personal experience with wheel spacers and positive offset wheels. I installed 1.25" spacers on my FJ at about 25,000 miles. I removed the spacers at about 60,000 miles and switched to ATX series wheels with a net positive offset of 24mm (~1in.) from stock. I had to replace my front driver wheel bearing at 70,000 miles. These were my first wheel spacers/offset wheels and it was my first wheel bearing replacement in 34 years of owning and driving modified vehicles.

Thanks and solid information. I guess my point behind all this is based on this. No two people are alike. Each of us decide what Mods they want to make and what they gain from it. It can be as simple as the intangibles, installing it yourself, hearing the growl of WOT with a CAI or the rumble of a CAT-Back System. It could also be data based fact: Said internal modification to engine, dyno'd at net gain of 30HP after mod. To each there own. As You stated, "My Personal Experience". That's good enough for me, but to offer opinion based on just because someone thinks its stupid or its dangerous without hard proven fact/data just doesn't fly.
Just my two cents of course. Both my bro and I run the Spider Trax Spacers. Me on my 14 TE and brother on his FJ. We use his FJ more for the off-road fun and mine is more of a road queen. Will see what happens when we start running up miles on them. :sniper:

Thanks

 

[Intruder]

I guess my point behind all this is based on this. No two people are alike. Each of us decide what Mods they want to make and what they gain from it.

Agreed. As long as you aren't doing anything illegal then to each their own. A lot of the "bad idea" mods listed in this thread are more about personal preference than actual bad ideas. Who cares what colour someone paints their skid plates, if they stick fake vents on, run Icons instead of OME, or whatever. Some people bought their trucks purely for pavement, others for rock crawling, and others for "overlanding" (whatever that means, don't we all drive over land?) so they all have different ideas about what are good and bad mods for them. Worry about your own trucks instead of other peoples'.

 

[Misterquad]

Okay, so what is the premise of this thread? I would assume that it was not too specific based on the title. So, to me, a Bad Idea Mod could be illegal, unsafe, against my personal taste or any mod I later regretted spending my money to purchase. Was there a thread premise I needed to be following?