Baltimore riots...
- Thread starter Antman
- Start date
BlackWorksInc
New member
I imagine most of the National Guard troops are in Condition 3 (Awareness Yellow or more likely Orange are probably safe to assume) and probably just for show more than anything. I'm curious if the National Guard has access to some of the LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device) and/or ADS (Active Denial System) equipment for this type as it seems to be designed specifically for these types of situations.
I'm surprised by how much ground those riot police allowed themselves to lose in the videos; some of them are being pushed back a couple hundred or more feet from their starting line. I would imagine by then they should be tossing some tear gas and/or non-lethal means of establishing a solid defensive line, that kind of retreat would seem only to embolden the protesters into a sense of false security; and possibly encourage them to be more aggressive as a result. I understand that's probably not something they want to start doing, but the reality is that if they keep surrendering ground to an actively hostile group of individuals, they'll only be boosting their confidence and setting the precedent to encourage bolder tactics.
Post Note-
I assume they are using their right arm to brace the riot shields in the picture, but it just looks like they are trying to cover their faces from the cellphone cameras.
fourwd1
Moderator
That was dead on accurate.
ndcent
New member
What do you propose?
fourwd1
Moderator
Un armed National Guardsmen? You're obviously very young or you'd remember what happened at Kent State Univ.
During the 1968 Riots in Baltimore there were 12000 Federal troops called in to assist the NG, MSP, and local PDs.
Quit telling us what you think you might know.
ben550
New member
RockyMountainT4R
New member
I remember what happened at Kent State in May of 1970. Yes, I’m an old dude. This is the 50th anniversary of the academic year at Berkeley when the FSM took place. I remember that too as I was a student there at the time. It was a lot different than I remember it being portrayed in the media. But I’ll halt my walk down memory lane long enough to babble about the topic at hand.
In ‘70, I was in basic training and our instructors talked about it at length. After Kent State, many National Guard units modified their training and procedures with regards to the carry and use of firearms. They also placed a heightened focus on training for the handling of civilians throwing rocks and other projectiles.
Today, we frequently have National Guardsmen and their dependents in our firearms classes. A few months ago, this topic came up. I asked them about whether Guardsmen always carry loaded weapons if they are called in to assist with civil disturbances. They said that the Guard is under the command and control of the governor of the state where they serve. As different governors and their staffs have different views as to how and when the Guard should be armed, there is not one, easy, absolute answer. The fact that the Guardsmen in Ohio over 40 years ago were armed with loaded rifles doesn’t mean that they will be today or that the Guardsmen in another state will always have loaded weapons in all situations. Their take was very similar to ben550, “…if they have that limited quantity of ammo, they are most definitely not allowed to have it loaded in their weapons...” unless they are ordered to do so. This is usually due to the threat of serious bodily injury or death.
So they may be armed with loaded weapons or, like some of the Guard after 911 in the neighboring state of Pennsylvania, have unloaded weapons with loaded magazines on their belt.
With that I’ll ...quit telling you what I think I might know.;-)
RedSled
New member
I also remember that stuff, i was at Ft. Hood in 1968 after getting back from Nam. They decided to put me in riot control :doh: it did not go well, anyway i then went home to Richmond Ca. Like you guess i am just reminiscing. It was little different back then.
Nervo19
Member
I've been humming this since I saw Freddie's record. He probably swallowed his inventory and banged his own head in the paddy wagon.
Freddie's Dead from Superfly:
https://youtu.be/0B6TKClPFQA?list=RD0B6TKClPFQA
Enjoy the instrumental version with a vintage pimp mobile (and pimp)
https://youtu.be/pQewMLnXX7I
Now who's up for a binge watch weekend of "The Wire." IMO it's the most realistic police show ever made. Filmed with a lot of real Baltimore police and shitizens:
https://youtu.be/zmIvu1yg3bU
Freddie's Dead from Superfly:
https://youtu.be/0B6TKClPFQA?list=RD0B6TKClPFQA
Enjoy the instrumental version with a vintage pimp mobile (and pimp)
https://youtu.be/pQewMLnXX7I
Now who's up for a binge watch weekend of "The Wire." IMO it's the most realistic police show ever made. Filmed with a lot of real Baltimore police and shitizens:
https://youtu.be/zmIvu1yg3bU
foxrider56
New member
LandCruiser
New member
Bush's fault.
Quatre Coureur
New member
News flash!: Using the word 'thug' is akin to using the 'N-word'. What are we to call them then? Disenfranchised aggressors!? Wtf!? What's next..? Rapists will become 'non-consensual sex partners'? Burglars will be 'uninvited house guests'? This sh!t just keeps getting more insane!
LandCruiser
New member
Your post makes me want to check my white privilege... or is that my white guilt? Whatever. My expensive liberal arts education in Belgian middle age Lesbian Poetry at one of the top East Coast Ivy League schools has made me want to respond to this situation in a way that mitigates any microaggression, doesn't set off any triggers, is most halal, kosher, fair trade, socially, ethically, racially conscious, and gender neutral while acknowledging and empowering the LGBTQ community. I have contacted my Community Organizer and have organized an Instagram Sit In to properly draw attention to this cause.
#hashtagsmatter
RockyMountainT4R
New member
Funny and sadly true. Bush, Obama and every other administration since 1964 and the so-called War On Poverty has made their contribution. This War, as opposed to its noble goal of encouraging self-sufficiency, has increased reliance on tax payer funded hand outs and anger when expected entitlements are not forthcoming. I would agree that it has helped create new generations of people dependent on their government by breaking down the habits and norms that lead to self-reliance.
Brique
New member
SO. Where do I even start with all this? I guess by acknowledging that my opinion on social problems, posted in the off-topic area of a truck enthusiast forum, is about as useless as tits on a bull. That said, I guess I'll waste my time anyway by pitching my two cents into the hat.
Wall of text incoming. TL;DR If you want to see things get better, get involved and fix them yourself.
The truth is no one really knows what happened to Freddie Gray because the investigation hasn't been concluded and details haven't been released yet. That of course doesn't stop the media from stoking the fires of "racial injustice" and fanning the flames to see if they can't get people worked up enough to start breaking shit for the cameras. As with Treyvon Martin and Michael Brown, facts are irrelevant anyway. All that matters is pushing peoples' buttons in order to get a reaction, and there seems to be no easier way than mining latent racial resentments over injustices both real and perceived. What can be said for sure, is that when the facts do come out, the media will do absolutely nothing to correct the record and people will still believe the narrative they were sold in the opening days of the crisis, instead of what the investigation revealed. George Zimmerman's story was backed up by the physical evidence, and there is nothing to indicate that he just saw some black kid, followed him and gunned him down, but that's what people still think, because of the story they were told at the beginning. Turns out that officer Wilson's story in Ferguson was true, backed up both by physical evidence and by eyewitnesses (most of whom were in fact, black). But the story most folks still believe is that Michael Brown was gunned down in cold blood while he tried to surrender, in spite of the fact that eyewitnesses said that this wasn't the case and the physical evidence shows that this could not have been the case.
So, the media fans the race war flames, then delights in all the destruction they incite. And people find themselves boxed into one camp or the other, either canonizing or demonizing the "victim". Peaceful protests break out, followed by violent "protest" over the incident in question, when the truth is that it's not really about Treyvon or Michael or Freddie, but about other grievances that are being projected onto the latest "victim". Freddie Gray is just another stand-in for the discontent that a lot of people are feeling. This discontent has been fomented and nurtured and channeled both deliberately and inadvertently into a constant culture of blame; blame on white racism, blame on the rich, blame on evil corporations, blame on the other political party, blame on whoever the bad guy of the day is supposed to be.
There are people out there who are beyond help, but there are also lots and lots and lots of people out there who are frustrated in their lives and have no idea what they need to do to improve it, when all they need is the right information and the right tools to do so. Sadly, the only message they get is from supposedly compassionate people telling them "It's someone else's fault. Give up. Don't try." So they have no direction to channel their energy, their hope, their passion into. And then when something like this happens, they latch onto it and pour all of that feeling into it. Some contain themselves and keep it peaceful. Some don't.
So who's really at fault? I have my opinion on the matter, but it's irrelevant. What matters is what we do about it moving forward. 50 years ago, the people of this country abdicated their responsibility to help those in need to the federal government, believing that a central authority through central funding and central planning could do a better job at helping folks than private citizens could do. The result has been an increasing perception in our culture that it's the Government's job to fix everyone's life and everyone's problems, and that it's someone else's job to pay for it. The government fails harder and harder every single year to achieve what it never could have done in the first place, and people continue to wash their hands of the problems, blaming whoever their personal bad guy is for the failure, posting on facebook and internet forums what their take is on the problem without actually lifting a finger to do anything about it.
If it feels like I'm lecturing or wagging a finger at any of you, I'm not. I'm keenly aware of the irony in me typing this on an internet forum. But I've thought and thought and thought on the social problems of the day and on how to stop this country from completely sliding into the shitter, and the best, the only real thing I can say is that if you want something done, you HAVE to do it yourself.
For my part, my wife and I volunteer with a local nonprofit that works with families on welfare to teach them how to get themselves off welfare and to realize their God-given potential. These families come from the same kind of neighborhoods that the rioting in Baltimore is happening in, and to a person, the people who seek out this organization all want to believe in themselves and in the possibility of living a self-determined life. I honestly believe that if half the people in America who claim to give a shit about the poor actually participated in programs like this one (privately funded, privately run and a million times more effective than government programs), that in a few generations our country would reverse course and circuses like what we're seeing in Baltimore would be a rare occurrence rather than a monthly event.
I know it's easy to give up and dismiss people as mindless savages, especially when they act in ways that reinforce stereotypes instead of defying them. But as in all things, people are people, and everyone has a different story and a different potential.
Again, if it sounds like I'm preaching, please forgive me. I'm not writing to brag about how "cool I think I am" or how any of you "suck", but to point out what I see as the only practical solution to this kind of crap and to give you encouragement and ideas on what to do about it.
Wall of text incoming. TL;DR If you want to see things get better, get involved and fix them yourself.
The truth is no one really knows what happened to Freddie Gray because the investigation hasn't been concluded and details haven't been released yet. That of course doesn't stop the media from stoking the fires of "racial injustice" and fanning the flames to see if they can't get people worked up enough to start breaking shit for the cameras. As with Treyvon Martin and Michael Brown, facts are irrelevant anyway. All that matters is pushing peoples' buttons in order to get a reaction, and there seems to be no easier way than mining latent racial resentments over injustices both real and perceived. What can be said for sure, is that when the facts do come out, the media will do absolutely nothing to correct the record and people will still believe the narrative they were sold in the opening days of the crisis, instead of what the investigation revealed. George Zimmerman's story was backed up by the physical evidence, and there is nothing to indicate that he just saw some black kid, followed him and gunned him down, but that's what people still think, because of the story they were told at the beginning. Turns out that officer Wilson's story in Ferguson was true, backed up both by physical evidence and by eyewitnesses (most of whom were in fact, black). But the story most folks still believe is that Michael Brown was gunned down in cold blood while he tried to surrender, in spite of the fact that eyewitnesses said that this wasn't the case and the physical evidence shows that this could not have been the case.
So, the media fans the race war flames, then delights in all the destruction they incite. And people find themselves boxed into one camp or the other, either canonizing or demonizing the "victim". Peaceful protests break out, followed by violent "protest" over the incident in question, when the truth is that it's not really about Treyvon or Michael or Freddie, but about other grievances that are being projected onto the latest "victim". Freddie Gray is just another stand-in for the discontent that a lot of people are feeling. This discontent has been fomented and nurtured and channeled both deliberately and inadvertently into a constant culture of blame; blame on white racism, blame on the rich, blame on evil corporations, blame on the other political party, blame on whoever the bad guy of the day is supposed to be.
There are people out there who are beyond help, but there are also lots and lots and lots of people out there who are frustrated in their lives and have no idea what they need to do to improve it, when all they need is the right information and the right tools to do so. Sadly, the only message they get is from supposedly compassionate people telling them "It's someone else's fault. Give up. Don't try." So they have no direction to channel their energy, their hope, their passion into. And then when something like this happens, they latch onto it and pour all of that feeling into it. Some contain themselves and keep it peaceful. Some don't.
So who's really at fault? I have my opinion on the matter, but it's irrelevant. What matters is what we do about it moving forward. 50 years ago, the people of this country abdicated their responsibility to help those in need to the federal government, believing that a central authority through central funding and central planning could do a better job at helping folks than private citizens could do. The result has been an increasing perception in our culture that it's the Government's job to fix everyone's life and everyone's problems, and that it's someone else's job to pay for it. The government fails harder and harder every single year to achieve what it never could have done in the first place, and people continue to wash their hands of the problems, blaming whoever their personal bad guy is for the failure, posting on facebook and internet forums what their take is on the problem without actually lifting a finger to do anything about it.
If it feels like I'm lecturing or wagging a finger at any of you, I'm not. I'm keenly aware of the irony in me typing this on an internet forum. But I've thought and thought and thought on the social problems of the day and on how to stop this country from completely sliding into the shitter, and the best, the only real thing I can say is that if you want something done, you HAVE to do it yourself.
For my part, my wife and I volunteer with a local nonprofit that works with families on welfare to teach them how to get themselves off welfare and to realize their God-given potential. These families come from the same kind of neighborhoods that the rioting in Baltimore is happening in, and to a person, the people who seek out this organization all want to believe in themselves and in the possibility of living a self-determined life. I honestly believe that if half the people in America who claim to give a shit about the poor actually participated in programs like this one (privately funded, privately run and a million times more effective than government programs), that in a few generations our country would reverse course and circuses like what we're seeing in Baltimore would be a rare occurrence rather than a monthly event.
I know it's easy to give up and dismiss people as mindless savages, especially when they act in ways that reinforce stereotypes instead of defying them. But as in all things, people are people, and everyone has a different story and a different potential.
Again, if it sounds like I'm preaching, please forgive me. I'm not writing to brag about how "cool I think I am" or how any of you "suck", but to point out what I see as the only practical solution to this kind of crap and to give you encouragement and ideas on what to do about it.
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I think the politically correct term must be: 'Undocumented Shopper'.
TotalAutomotiveLV
New member
There are still good people out there. Ones who see the bigger picture. We dont get political as we are an auto parts business, but we thought this image was powerful.
Brique
New member
Interesting. Manslaughter I could see, but doesn't murder mean they have to prove the officers intended to kill Grey?
fourwd1
Moderator
The NG of the 70's is certainly quite different from today, back then it was mostly young kids doing guard duty instead of Viet Nam.
And the commanding General of the MNG did announce last night that the troops were carrying unloaded weapons but were carrying ammo (supposedly).
But being an RF engineer and a radio geek, listening to comms reveals a lot more than what TV reports. And the local news crews are a joke, doing everything possible to over hype things for ratings. Esp one dumb ***** on Fox 45.
But the curfew is in effect 45 min now and the animals are acting up.
