Bilstein 5100s with Eibach or TRD Tundra?

[atalarico]

Hey all,

I'm not getting any bites over on the latest question in my "Lowering my lift" thread, but the topic has evolved anyway, so I'm going to post this question here.

ToyTec is going to give me a deal on some 5100s to replace my leaking 3 year old set (either $170 after taxes for Tacomas or $200ish for Tundras). I'm not sure whether or not to go with the Tacoma 5100s or the Tundras (had the Tundras with Eibach springs). I have a 97 Limited with nothing extra up front, but I might be putting a bumper and winch up front at some point in the future.

My ride is super harsh right now, but that might be more about the combination of leaking struts and load range E tires. Regardless, it's making me really question hard whether or not I want Tacoma or Tundra struts. I want a more forgiving ride because my commute tripled recently, and I'm sick of being thrown around.

The next part of the pickle is whether to go with TRD Tundra coils (about $147 shipped new) or to stay with my broken in Eibach coils. One of the guys at ToyTec recommended staying with the Eibachs since they're broken in and I'm sitting at about 2.5" of front lift. He said that they've had quite a few customers go from TRD Tundra coils to Eibachs and be really satisfied. However, I want to get closer to 2" of lift to ease the strain on everything else up front (CVs, etc.). I'm heavily leaning toward the Tundra coils because of the very glowing reviews all around. I've read a few places that some people recommend shaving part of your steering knuckles.

I've done a crap ton of searching on the forum and on other sites, but I just can't seem to get a clear read on how it all applies to my situation. I also haven't found much in the way of talking about the Tacoma 5100s paired with the Tundra coils. Anyone have ideas on that too?

 

[1985taylor1925]

Hey all,

I'm not getting any bites over on the latest question in my "Lowering my lift" thread, but the topic has evolved anyway, so I'm going to post this question here.

ToyTec is going to give me a deal on some 5100s to replace my leaking 3 year old set (either $170 after taxes for Tacomas or $200ish for Tundras). I'm not sure whether or not to go with the Tacoma 5100s or the Tundras (had the Tundras with Eibach springs). I have a 97 Limited with nothing extra up front, but I might be putting a bumper and winch up front at some point in the future.

My ride is super harsh right now, but that might be more about the combination of leaking struts and load range E tires. Regardless, it's making me really question hard whether or not I want Tacoma or Tundra struts. I want a more forgiving ride because my commute tripled recently, and I'm sick of being thrown around.

The next part of the pickle is whether to go with TRD Tundra coils (about $147 shipped new) or to stay with my broken in Eibach coils. One of the guys at ToyTec recommended staying with the Eibachs since they're broken in and I'm sitting at about 2.5" of front lift. He said that they've had quite a few customers go from TRD Tundra coils to Eibachs and be really satisfied. However, I want to get closer to 2" of lift to ease the strain on everything else up front (CVs, etc.). I'm heavily leaning toward the Tundra coils because of the very glowing reviews all around. I've read a few places that some people recommend shaving part of your steering knuckles.

I've done a crap ton of searching on the forum and on other sites, but I just can't seem to get a clear read on how it all applies to my situation. I also haven't found much in the way of talking about the Tacoma 5100s paired with the Tundra coils. Anyone have ideas on that too?

Ive struggled with the harsh ride of my 4runner since Ive owned it. I have never liked the ride, and over the years have tried figuring out the best small lift with a softer ride. Currently Ive had 5 different set-ups, both front and rear.

As I was doing my research several months ago I recall reading (I believe on Tacoma world) that the Taco 5100s are in fact valved slightly softer than the Tundra 5100s. I don't know where that thread is right now, but Im sure I could find it. So I would recommend going with the Taco 5100s for a softer ride.

For coils, you don't need The Tundra or Eibach coils for a lift. I am running my Taco 5100s with stock 99 coils on the second setting. This provides a 2" lift, and Im sure it rides softer that either the eibachs or tundras. You could sell the eibachs and get a good used set of 99 coils and probably walk away with a small profit, a lift, and a softer ride.

 

[cashmoney]

Can't believe y'all think the 4runner has a rough ride. Mine is like a caddy. I don't know which 5100s I have (ordered them and the eibachs from toytec) but this thing rides like a dream.

 

[atalarico]

Ive struggled with the harsh ride of my 4runner since Ive owned it. I have never liked the ride, and over the years have tried figuring out the best small lift with a softer ride. Currently Ive had 5 different set-ups, both front and rear.

As I was doing my research several months ago I recall reading (I believe on Tacoma world) that the Taco 5100s are in fact valved slightly softer than the Tundra 5100s. I don't know where that thread is right now, but Im sure I could find it. So I would recommend going with the Taco 5100s for a softer ride.

For coils, you don't need The Tundra or Eibach coils for a lift. I am running my Taco 5100s with stock 99 coils on the second setting. This provides a 2" lift, and Im sure it rides softer that either the eibachs or tundras. You could sell the eibachs and get a good used set of 99 coils and probably walk away with a small profit, a lift, and a softer ride.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've read and heard from ToyTec that the Taco 5100s are valved differently than the Tundra 5100s, so I get that.

I'm still trying to figure out if the TRD Tundra coils are going to be that much better than the broken in Eibachs I have. Anyone else have anything to add?

Can't believe y'all think the 4runner has a rough ride. Mine is like a caddy. I don't know which 5100s I have (ordered them and the eibachs from toytec) but this thing rides like a dream.

Rough-ish. It probably has more to do with my struts being shot than anything now. I get thrown around pretty bad in my 4Runner. The OME struts I've heard are really harsh. Also, as I stated in the original post, I have stupid E rated tires, and that also isn't helping. Don't worry, C rated Durtracs are in my near future.

 

[kingin]

I have tundra 5100 with eibachs up front and oem lc shocks with lc springs in rear. Running C rated duratracs 285/70/17@38psi and in no way does it ride like a Cadillac. Lol

 

[D Farms]

heres something to consider: bilstein shocks have digressive valving, this means at low shaft speed they are stiff and at high shaft speed they are soft. this great for a car on a race track, because the shocks can help to limit things like body roll and braking force, but if the car hits a big bump the shock softens up allowing more travel. unfortunately on a truck this setup kind of sucks. on a truck you really want just the opposite, at low shaft speed you want it to be soft so when your traveling over rough terrain at moderate speeds the suspsension can easily move to soak up small long bumps, if you hit something like a big bump you want the shock to stiffen up so you dont bottom out( think of whoops). if you have ever tried to go over whoops at high speed you will know what im talking about, the front end launches up into the air then slams down and they shock absorber just gives out because it is digressive and the more shaft speed the less the damping.

another thing that can make your truck ride like crap is having shocks that are valved too stiff for your truck. the majority of aftermarket lift shocks are probably too stiff for our trucks, mine rides way way smoother when its loaded up. a lot of people over estimate how stiff of shocks they need, sure if you have full skids bumpers a swing out a roof rack winch and gas cans im sure the ride is ideal with a lc shock, but for most of us we just dont carry that much weight, out trucks would need to be as heavy as a land cruiser for them to be damping correctly.

anyways ride quality has more to do with proper shocks than springs.

 

[cashmoney]

While true, 99.9% of folks don't need nor want to spend the money on custom valved shocks.

 

[1985taylor1925]

heres something to consider: bilstein shocks have digressive valving, this means at low shaft speed they are stiff and at high shaft speed they are soft. this great for a car on a race track, because the shocks can help to limit things like body roll and braking force, but if the car hits a big bump the shock softens up allowing more travel. unfortunately on a truck this setup kind of sucks. on a truck you really want just the opposite, at low shaft speed you want it to be soft so when your traveling over rough terrain at moderate speeds the suspsension can easily move to soak up small long bumps, if you hit something like a big bump you want the shock to stiffen up so you dont bottom out( think of whoops). if you have ever tried to go over whoops at high speed you will know what im talking about, the front end launches up into the air then slams down and they shock absorber just gives out because it is digressive and the more shaft speed the less the damping.

another thing that can make your truck ride like crap is having shocks that are valved too stiff for your truck. the majority of aftermarket lift shocks are probably too stiff for our trucks, mine rides way way smoother when its loaded up. a lot of people over estimate how stiff of shocks they need, sure if you have full skids bumpers a swing out a roof rack winch and gas cans im sure the ride is ideal with a lc shock, but for most of us we just dont carry that much weight, out trucks would need to be as heavy as a land cruiser for them to be damping correctly.

anyways ride quality has more to do with proper shocks than springs.

I remember the debate between ICON and King coilovers, ICON being digressive and king being progressive. People seem to like both for different reasons. I have noticed my bilsteins do well at high speeds. But still too stiff overall. It still jitters and jumps around on rough roads. But the main reason for this is the rear mounted steering rack. Not a good design on Toyotas part. The fixed that on the 4th gen

 

[PhdNPrerunners]

I have tundra 5100 with eibachs up front and oem lc shocks with lc springs in rear. Running C rated duratracs 285/70/17@38psi and in no way does it ride like a Cadillac. Lol

Where did you find a load range c 285 duratracs? I've only seen them in D and E

 

[atalarico]

Yeah, this seems to be what I'm reading between the lines in a lot of places. If I'm reading this right, the coils aren't going to be the biggest deal here and I should just keep the eibachs but get Tacoma struts at the very least because anything more is simply overkill.

 

[kingin]

Where did you find a load range c 285 duratracs? I've only seen them in D and E

Lol sorry my 265/75/16 at/3 where c my 285 duratracs are D. lol good catch

 

[1985taylor1925]

Yeah, this seems to be what I'm reading between the lines in a lot of places. If I'm reading this right, the coils aren't going to be the biggest deal here and I should just keep the eibachs but get Tacoma struts at the very least because anything more is simply overkill.

From my personal experience it's still the suspension that makes the difference. I've run two sets of p rated tires and two sets of e rated 10 ply. Certainly the tires make a difference. But if the suspension is stiff the ride will be stiff, regardless of the tires. What spring rate are your eibachs?

 

[atalarico]

I could have sworn I found Duratracs in very close size to 265/75/16 in a C rating but I'll have to take a look again I guess.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the spring rate is on these. I know they're 660# rated springs but mine are 3.5 years old. The toytec guys indicated that they have settled a lot and should provide the soft ride I'm looking for if paired with Tacoma bilsteins.

 

[1985taylor1925]

I could have sworn I found Duratracs in very close size to 265/75/16 in a C rating but I'll have to take a look again I guess.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the spring rate is on these. I know they're 660# rated springs but mine are 3.5 years old. The toytec guys indicated that they have settled a lot and should provide the soft ride I'm looking for if paired with Tacoma bilsteins.

I wouldn't expect much difference by going from the Tundra 5100s to the Taco 5100s if you keep the same coils. You're talking 660lb rating compared to 525 with the oem coils. Also keep in mind, if you set the coils on any setting but the lowest, you are adding additional preload to the coils, making them even stiffer. If you ran the Taco 5100s on the lowest setting, you would still get a small lift, and have the least preload. I am running my oem 99 coils on the middle setting of my Taco 5100s, and Im at 2" of front lift. Even with the 99 coils I feel like the ride is too stiff. Im planning on dropping mine to the lowest setting to eliminate the additional preload, and bring the lift down to only an inch or so. Im tired of the jarring ride, and of tearing cv boots

 

[Road Bull]

I have been waiting for the King coilovers half-off sale. I am sure it's going to happen any day now...

Till then, I am going for the same thing, but I think, even with an aftermarket FB, I will go with 600# coils at most. I am only looking g for 2" lift as well.

 

[jpeaslee]

I have TRD front springs and OME 906s on Tundra 5100s all around on top of Load E General Grabbers and the ride is far from harsh, most have called it "surprisingly comfortable." I've been nothing with happy with everything. I'll swap out the rear springs whenever I'm ready to bump it up to 3" from the 2" i've got it at now, but other than that I don't really have any reason to want a change.

 

[atalarico]

Well, I decided to just give up on overcomplicating this and and take it in to a shop I've been to before. $280 for the labor to replace the struts, which included reusing my Eibach coils and assembling everything again. I have a new job that doubled my salary, and they're nice enough to be adults about making accommodations like "My car needs to go to the shop" so I just went with it today.

Anyway, the ride is nice! I can tell the struts were just totally shot before, as my steering wheel no longer goes all over when I hit bumps, and I don't feel like my front end is a pogo stick made of cement. I really do think these feel a softer than what I remember the new Tundra 5100/Eibach system felt like when I first put the lift on. I like that.

I have to take new measurements on level ground because it definitely doesn't seem like I'm getting normal numbers in my very not level driveway (about a 3% grade if I had to guess). I was measuring just a hair under 24" front center of hubcap to bottom of fender flare in the front and 23.75" in the back. I just went to ToyTec last week and the guy measured and said I had 2.5" in the front over stock and just about 3" in the rear, but I totally forgot the numbers he said. I thought they were in the 23's.

 

[MTwEeZi]

I have been waiting for the King coilovers half-off sale. I am sure it's going to happen any day now...

Wait, what? Is that a thing? Tell me more..

 

[Road Bull]

Wait, what? Is that a thing? Tell me more..

Sorry, man, I so wish it was a thing. But to my knowledge, King, Icon, and so on don't offer any sort of awesome sale like that. But I wish they did! It would make my decision much easier. I think Toytec offers some discount for being a T4R member. But that's about it brother.

 

[Road Bull]

Well, I decided to just give up on overcomplicating this and and take it in to a shop I've been to before. $280 for the labor to replace the struts, which included reusing my Eibach coils and assembling everything again. I have a new job that doubled my salary, and they're nice enough to be adults about making accommodations like "My car needs to go to the shop" so I just went with it today.

Anyway, the ride is nice! I can tell the struts were just totally shot before, as my steering wheel no longer goes all over when I hit bumps, and I don't feel like my front end is a pogo stick made of cement. I really do think these feel a softer than what I remember the new Tundra 5100/Eibach system felt like when I first put the lift on. I like that.

I have to take new measurements on level ground because it definitely doesn't seem like I'm getting normal numbers in my very not level driveway (about a 3% grade if I had to guess). I was measuring just a hair under 24" front center of hubcap to bottom of fender flare in the front and 23.75" in the back. I just went to ToyTec last week and the guy measured and said I had 2.5" in the front over stock and just about 3" in the rear, but I totally forgot the numbers he said. I thought they were in the 23's.

So, are you saying that the front sits taller than the rear? Have any pics? Shouldn't the 890 yield about 3" of lift? Sounds like you like the ride though, so that's good!