Bored to death & beating a dead horse
- Thread starter Falls
- Start date
Uneek
Super Moderator
IMO, the Japan vs. US made Toyota is being taken too seriously. It's all in the company culture and attitude. I certainly agree that I'll prefer a Toyota built in Japan.
This doesn't mean a Japan made Toyota is perfect, like the 4Runner. Seat and sunroof rattle, passenger side second row seatback squeak, just to name a few. Let's not forget that the 4Runner could've been built at the highly regarded Tahara plant that also builds flagship Toyotas, aka Lexus LS and GS sedans. My 4Runner was built in Tahara and it has the driveline clunk and second row seat squeak, fixed by electrical tape. My Camry and Tacoma were US built and both have been flawless.
This doesn't mean a Japan made Toyota is perfect, like the 4Runner. Seat and sunroof rattle, passenger side second row seatback squeak, just to name a few. Let's not forget that the 4Runner could've been built at the highly regarded Tahara plant that also builds flagship Toyotas, aka Lexus LS and GS sedans. My 4Runner was built in Tahara and it has the driveline clunk and second row seat squeak, fixed by electrical tape. My Camry and Tacoma were US built and both have been flawless.
00void
New member
bsl888 said:
my father had a '93 Avalon and put close to 300k miles on it w/out anything but routine maintenance. he replaced it with either an '04 or '05 Camry and hasn't been impressed with it. complaints about the tires, paint, workmanship etc. it actually put a bad taste in his mouth about buying another Toyota but didn't stop him and my mother buying a brand new Lexus a few months ago, haha.
if Toyota builds the new T4R in the US, i too might look elsewhere.
:iagree: I would avoid a first-model-year, even with Toyota/Lexus.
But location doesn't mean anything. I had a made-in-Japan 2004 Lexus RX330 (first year)... lots of rattles and silly problems. The Canadian plant turned out RX's that year with the exact same silly problems. So you can say the Canadian plant is on par with Japan in every way!
I don't think the country of manufacture has anything to do with it. I think engineering and corporate culture have a lot more impact on the quality of the final product than the location of the assembly plant.
And I'd be happy to support more jobs in this country. Heck... now we're even importing pet food ingredients from China. Can't we make anything here anymore??
But location doesn't mean anything. I had a made-in-Japan 2004 Lexus RX330 (first year)... lots of rattles and silly problems. The Canadian plant turned out RX's that year with the exact same silly problems. So you can say the Canadian plant is on par with Japan in every way!
I don't think the country of manufacture has anything to do with it. I think engineering and corporate culture have a lot more impact on the quality of the final product than the location of the assembly plant.
And I'd be happy to support more jobs in this country. Heck... now we're even importing pet food ingredients from China. Can't we make anything here anymore??
Thai
Elite Member
I got nothing, Falls.
I do think that Toyota will stick with body-on-frame design with solid rear axle...they have to...their next gen Land Cruiser/LX will have these features. Thus, Toyota still believes that it can beat other competitors while still keeping these off-roading design features.
I doubt that they will stick in a 5.7L V8...it is just too big to fit in a midsize SUV...the Tundra is freaking huge, as is the next gen LX/Land Cruiser. And i believe that the Tundra is STILL available with the 4.7L V8, which means that Toyota is not giving up that engine anytime soon. Therefore, the 4.7L V8 may still be here when the 4runner gets redesigned. And the current 4.7L V8 VVTi makes good power...on par with it's class of midsize truck engines.
As for USA vs. Japan, i prefer Japan made...but not a big deal (aka deal breaker). Definitely, i would NOT buy a 1st year model, no matter where it's made. Just something to ponder...the '07 Camry V6 and ES350 have tranny issues, while the IS350/GS do not. The former two are made in USA, while the latter two are made in Japan. Coincidence? Bad luck with supplier?
It's hard to change the mindset of a culture with protocols, even strict protocols. Japanese auto workers traditionally grow up in a culture of self-responsibility and pride in what they make...remember those movies where the Japanese would impell themselves on their sword because they failed?? Toyota (and Honda) manufacturing protocols enhance these virtues. These protocols don't make them, they enhance/encourage them. So, although i think that these protocols can be incorporated successfully in USA, i do not think that you will have the EXACT equal in results. Of course, Japanese people (sons/daughters of those legendary workers) nowadays are very Western-minded and no better than us Americans in terms of their traditional values and virtues. Therefore, i think that the gap between Japanese made and American made are closing rapidly with each generation. As more and more people adapt Toyota ways of manufacturing, you will see the gap close even further.
BTW, my hospital administration is adapting Toyota's ideas in running the hospital...not sure if it's good or bad yet.
BTW #2, i would keep an eye on those Koreans...they are making a fast run to the top. I doubt that they will make anything to compete with 4runners and other off-roaders, but they are going after the breat-n-butter sections (crossover SUVs, Camrys/Avalon section, econobox, & midsize luxury sedans).
I do think that Toyota will stick with body-on-frame design with solid rear axle...they have to...their next gen Land Cruiser/LX will have these features. Thus, Toyota still believes that it can beat other competitors while still keeping these off-roading design features.I doubt that they will stick in a 5.7L V8...it is just too big to fit in a midsize SUV...the Tundra is freaking huge, as is the next gen LX/Land Cruiser. And i believe that the Tundra is STILL available with the 4.7L V8, which means that Toyota is not giving up that engine anytime soon. Therefore, the 4.7L V8 may still be here when the 4runner gets redesigned. And the current 4.7L V8 VVTi makes good power...on par with it's class of midsize truck engines.
As for USA vs. Japan, i prefer Japan made...but not a big deal (aka deal breaker). Definitely, i would NOT buy a 1st year model, no matter where it's made. Just something to ponder...the '07 Camry V6 and ES350 have tranny issues, while the IS350/GS do not. The former two are made in USA, while the latter two are made in Japan. Coincidence? Bad luck with supplier?
It's hard to change the mindset of a culture with protocols, even strict protocols. Japanese auto workers traditionally grow up in a culture of self-responsibility and pride in what they make...remember those movies where the Japanese would impell themselves on their sword because they failed?? Toyota (and Honda) manufacturing protocols enhance these virtues. These protocols don't make them, they enhance/encourage them. So, although i think that these protocols can be incorporated successfully in USA, i do not think that you will have the EXACT equal in results. Of course, Japanese people (sons/daughters of those legendary workers) nowadays are very Western-minded and no better than us Americans in terms of their traditional values and virtues. Therefore, i think that the gap between Japanese made and American made are closing rapidly with each generation. As more and more people adapt Toyota ways of manufacturing, you will see the gap close even further.
BTW, my hospital administration is adapting Toyota's ideas in running the hospital...not sure if it's good or bad yet.
BTW #2, i would keep an eye on those Koreans...they are making a fast run to the top. I doubt that they will make anything to compete with 4runners and other off-roaders, but they are going after the breat-n-butter sections (crossover SUVs, Camrys/Avalon section, econobox, & midsize luxury sedans).
Thai
Elite Member
Oh yeah, i think that the next gen Lexus LX will be unveiled today: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27139
Thai said:
You might have nailed it with the supplier question. I agree that engineering and corporate culture make Japanese companies what they are, and that is easily exported. The weak link remains suppliers -- many parts are sourced from local suppliers so a U.S. built Toyota truck might be designed in Japan and assembled to Japanese corporate specifications but if it contains poorly made local parts it'll be a dud.
Trannys are a good case in point. I was amazed when I found out how many suppliers some manufacturers use for trannys just for one model. It's kinda a crap shoot whether you end up with a tranny from supplier A or supplier B. I'm sure its the same for many other parts. Toyota might provide the specs but cannot guarentee parts are being made right, especially when you factor in the entire local supply chain.
Whatever they come out with, I'm sure it'll be a leader of this segment, by a long margin. Personally, I doubt they'll put the 5.7 in the new one, simply because the 4r is the midsized model, and the 4.7 has PLENTY of kick and capability already. Maybe they'll do some tweeks to it though to improve on mpg and power, but I doubt replacing it is in the cards. I like the design of this 4th generation, it's actually my favorite of all of them, especially the interior with it's large center consol. It's a bit more ridged riding in my opinion, making it feel a little too twitchy at times "bumpy street roads", but nonetheless, it seems fine to me. I do like what they've done to the new Tundra and Sashquacha'. I think they look slick! Too damn expensive for my tastes though, but very slick!
I do hope Toyota in general spends a little more time in the steering department though, and tightens up the feel. If Mazda has one thing I like, it's their tight steering feel. Very responsive.
I do hope Toyota in general spends a little more time in the steering department though, and tightens up the feel. If Mazda has one thing I like, it's their tight steering feel. Very responsive.
