Budbuilt Hidden Winch preparation H

[hinmo24t]

I am going to buy everything for running a budbuilt hidden winch plate and winch. if you have experience with bumper installs, budbuilt plate, or i think LFD has one too, feel free to chime in. If the LFD design and install is superior to budbuilt than let me know your thought on that...might justify an additional $100 for theirs. [MENTION=136636]jafrush[/MENTION]

has anyone currently on here installed one of these? itll be for my 04 v6. i think the install follows some of same for a full bumper changeout, where the front crossmember is undone (the budbuilt gets sandwiched between the front crossmember). I see 4 big bolts (not removable?) on each side that ill have to remove nuts for and i heard replace with grade 8 nuts during reinstall. mine arent overly rusty thankfully but i do have some undercoating spray on the bottom crossmember bolt/nut on one side, i plan to wirewheel and liquid wrench these bolts and areas soon and hopefully break that front crossmember loose... other than that I have to unclip the AC line in front of radiator so it can move and allow the winch to fit without being damaged. if you have ever unclipeed that AC line or have any tips on that please let me know. What happens if that breaks? My AC doesnt blow cold or get used now anyway lol...wasnt sure if it was critical for anything else. that AC line doesnt look too crusty on my truck which is reassuring.

questions:
-does anyone know the grade 8 nut sizes i need for replacing on the crossmember?
-is it okay to remove it and drive short distances to work with it off, while i attach the plate and winch? does anything twist or stress without it there (i know not ideal for an accident/insurance...shouldnt be too long from time removed to reinstall, a week maybe)
-PIA to remove crossmember with bumper on? plan was to remove bumper when it is time to install assembled plate/winch.
-as for the winch, i want something light and reliable. i wheel my truck in some muddy/watery spots, so i need a good watertight and reliable setup. I am going this route over semi/full bumpers to save weight. total plate + winch is like 85lbs. Im thinking Warn m8000 with synthetic if i can find one, Warn VR8 synthetic, or Engo 9000S synthetic. Any input on the winch feel free. Those two Warns are only 8000lb pull but many people say people over do it with winch size, those Warns pull full size LCs, and i heard theyre reliable. I dont plan to pull full size trucks with 8,000 winch, but myself I am pretty sure they could do just fine (and only 60lbs)

curb weight on our trucks is like 4200lb? say 4500 for mine x 1.5 = <7k lb

Thanks,
Tom

time to get back to work...sorry for novel

 

[jafrush]

So for ours, you need to remove the front bumper plastic (which isn't that bad, about maybe 10 bolts/screws and then just pull it off), and remove the front aluminum bar and its two support brackets. Re-use the existing bolts and bolt the Winch Mount base back on. The part that takes the longest is marking out where the fairlead is going to go and cutting the hole in the bumper.

We've always just gently bent the hard line back out of the way, it only usually needs to go back a half inch to an inch. Largely depends on your winch size.

At least on ours (and Id assume with others) you won't be able to do the install with the plastic bumper on. But again its really not bad to remove it.

You can drive around without any of the bumper on, you're just exposing the radiator to debris and don't have as much cushion if you hit something. Also depending on your year your turn signals may be in the bumper lights so you'd be missing those. We've driven one of our 4Runners without the front bumper for a month while working on a bumper prototype.

 

[hinmo24t]

So for ours, you need to remove the front bumper plastic (which isn't that bad, about maybe 10 bolts/screws and then just pull it off), and remove the front aluminum bar and its two support brackets. Re-use the existing bolts and bolt the Winch Mount base back on. The part that takes the longest is marking out where the fairlead is going to go and cutting the hole in the bumper.

We've always just gently bent the hard line back out of the way, it only usually needs to go back a half inch to an inch. Largely depends on your winch size.

At least on ours (and Id assume with others) you won't be able to do the install with the plastic bumper on. But again its really not bad to remove it.

You can drive around without any of the bumper on, you're just exposing the radiator to debris and don't have as much cushion if you hit something. Also depending on your year your turn signals may be in the bumper lights so you'd be missing those. We've driven one of our 4Runners without the front bumper for a month while working on a bumper prototype.

thanks for the info. i saw aluminum bar for the 5th gens...the 4th gen is mine, 2004, steel crossmember, and the turn signals are for 5th gen front bumpers. this is the one from your sight i would need:
LFD Off Road - Adjustable Hidden Winch Mount - 4th Gen 4R

do you have install instructions you could link or reference, from pics looks like yours replaces the crossmember? maybe not. if you guys have a decent sale ill consider this over the bud built. looks like the LFD in your picture on 4th gen sits low where you had to cut lower bumper as opposed to just the center of the bumper on a lot of the budbuilt ones.

thanks

Tom

 

[gfxcruncher]

Not trying to take business from anyone, but if budget is a concern, you could roll your own fairly easily... even add some recovery points (higher up than way under the truck)

winch plate from Amazon: ~45.
miscellaneous 3/16" angle: ~30.
1x2 bar stock: 20.

 

[hinmo24t]

Not trying to take business from anyone, but if budget is a concern, you could roll your own fairly easily... even add some recovery points (higher up than way under the truck)

winch plate from Amazon: ~45.
miscellaneous 3/16" angle: ~30.
1x2 bar stock: 20.

thats sweet, thanks. i dont weld...do you have a writeup on yours with exact links to the plate you used?? without a writeup i dont know if id wing something like this or should try if self recovering my truck depends on it. i love the protruding recovery points with your. your smitty holding up despite all the haters out there?

 

[gfxcruncher]

thats sweet, thanks. i dont weld...do you have a writeup on yours with exact links to the plate you used?? without a writeup i dont know if id wing something like this or should try if self recovering my truck depends on it. i love the protruding recovery points with your. your smitty holding up despite all the haters out there?

This is the plate I got, basically the widest one I could find to straddle the frame rails
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JS2LCPM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I used this writeup as a guide and added a few more braces...
Factory Bumper Winch Install

Ha, yeah the Smitty works fine. In fact, used it last weekend.

Edit: hit a deer the other weekend so the bumper cover is basically zip tied on and missing fogs etc... Waiting on a steel bumper

 

[jafrush]

thanks for the info. i saw aluminum bar for the 5th gens...the 4th gen is mine, 2004, steel crossmember, and the turn signals are for 5th gen front bumpers. this is the one from your sight i would need:
LFD Off Road - Adjustable Hidden Winch Mount - 4th Gen 4R

do you have install instructions you could link or reference, from pics looks like yours replaces the crossmember? maybe not. if you guys have a decent sale ill consider this over the bud built. looks like the LFD in your picture on 4th gen sits low where you had to cut lower bumper as opposed to just the center of the bumper on a lot of the budbuilt ones.

thanks

Tom

Ours replaces the crossmember. I think the one on our 2003 was aluminum still. Not sure yet if those are going to be part of the black friday sale or not yet.

 

[alia176]

For what it's worth, I was going to go this route myself by using a generic winch plate like the one from Amazon (mine is from HF) and fab up my own hidden winch mounting solution. However, given the state of both of my bumpers and how they've lost some of the mounting holes due to either age or the previous owner doing who knows what, I've decided to simply purchase a DIY bumper kit and go that route. I'm waiting for the Black Friday deals to pop up.

A winch by itself is probably close to 75#s plus another 80-95# for a bumper, you're definitely going to be going with the correct springs and perhaps upgrade the front suspension. Even just the winch + mounting solution will come near 100# of weight up front so you're changing out the front springs, at the very least.

I guess my point is to do some deep reflecting and see the long term end goal.

 

[hinmo24t]

For what it's worth, I was going to go this route myself by using a generic winch plate like the one from Amazon (mine is from HF) and fab up my own hidden winch mounting solution. However, given the state of both of my bumpers and how they've lost some of the mounting holes due to either age or the previous owner doing who knows what, I've decided to simply purchase a DIY bumper kit and go that route. I'm waiting for the Black Friday deals to pop up.

A winch by itself is probably close to 75#s plus another 80-95# for a bumper, you're definitely going to be going with the correct springs and perhaps upgrade the front suspension. Even just the winch + mounting solution will come near 100# of weight up front so you're changing out the front springs, at the very least.

I guess my point is to do some deep reflecting and see the long term end goal.

thanks. i think i saw your thread. im leaning with the LFD now because it replaces the crossmember, which might save more weight than budbuilt that you sandwich between the oem crossmember (and is a pain to install i heard). the LFD seems like an easier install. i dont love how it sits so low with the LFD. as for the weight...i have bilstein 5100s and old man emu springs, and ill be getting a lightweight winch in the 60lb range, synthetic line. that will be maybe in the 75lb range total factoring in deleting oem front crossmember...i read with budbuilt setup a .25" or .5" sag, but im pretty sure on a softer suspension than what i run. i didnt anticipate the sagging from what im doing to be significant, and if it does, I will add tools or an accessory to the rear to compensate.

 

[hinmo24t]

Ours replaces the crossmember. I think the one on our 2003 was aluminum still. Not sure yet if those are going to be part of the black friday sale or not yet.

interesting, it might be aluminum. throw that thing on sale haha ill buy it

 

[Wozzy]

Not trying to take business from anyone, but if budget is a concern, you could roll your own fairly easily... even add some recovery points (higher up than way under the truck)

winch plate from Amazon: ~45.
miscellaneous 3/16" angle: ~30.
1x2 bar stock: 20.

Love this! Do you have link for the shackle mounts you used? Can't seem to find any of that length.

 

[gfxcruncher]

Love this! Do you have link for the shackle mounts you used? Can't seem to find any of that length.

[MENTION=110194]Wozzy[/MENTION]

Thanks! Yeah, I couldn't find any that length either. Calling around seemed like 400 was the best I could find for someone to make them... Yeah right.
Wound up getting a 1"x2"x3' piece of bar stock from the local yard for 20 bucks and a 1" drill bit from amazon for like 30 bucks... and A LOT of patience and cutting fluid using my Ryobi drill press lol.

 

[hinmo24t]

[MENTION=110194]Wozzy[/MENTION]

Thanks! Yeah, I couldn't find any that length either. Calling around seemed like 400 was the best I could find for someone to make them... Yeah right.
Wound up getting a 1"x2"x3' piece of bar stock from the local yard for 20 bucks and a 1" drill bit from amazon for like 30 bucks... and A LOT of patience and cutting fluid using my Ryobi drill press lol.

did you get much sagging in front when you installed this?

can anyone tell me their opinion on what i saw mentioned once and my theory on .25 to .5 inch lower front after this?

 

[gfxcruncher]

did you get much sagging in front when you installed this?

can anyone tell me their opinion on what i saw mentioned once and my theory on .25 to .5 inch lower front after this?

It went down, but pretty minor, somewhere between 1/4 - 3/8". It wasn't really noticeable so I didn't bother adjusting the coilovers up... (running the Toytec adjustable one's w 5100s) winch is the Smitty 10k

 

[Alainzen]

Late on the winch plate thread...

I do have another option in mind for a winch plate. I am looking at the high clearance front receiver hitch from CBI

Toyota 4th Gen 4Runner High Clearance Front Receiver Hitch - CBI Offroad Fab

with a universal winch mount plate for a 2" receiver like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JFK9SW...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Pros:
-Lighter than some other options? To be confirmed
-Winch is removable so, no extra weight for daily driving
-Winch can be moved to the rear bumper if needed, with proper power setup.
-You attach whatever you want in the front receiver and use it as a recovery point, winch or not.
-Solid base to add a bull bar? Maybe? Why not!
-Winch mount fit more winch models, less space constraints.
-No fabrication needed for basic setup.

Cons:
-Does not look cool... Like your T4R belongs behind a RV...IMHO
-Not sure about the installation (not really a "con")
-Still a pricey option overall

There are cheaper front receivers, but not high clearance. Not sure yet what I want to do, but the front receiver does open some options.

Your thoughts?

 

[gimlithepirate]

I've considered going this route for exactly for the reasons listed. Unfortunately, my 4Runner already has a messed up bumper, so I'm guessing the best move is going to be to just replace it with an offroad bumper of some sort. If it was in decent shape I'd be looking at front hitch receiver.

 

[hinmo24t]

I do have another option in mind for a winch plate. I am looking at the high clearance front receiver hitch from CBI

Toyota 4th Gen 4Runner High Clearance Front Receiver Hitch - CBI Offroad Fab

with a universal winch mount plate for a 2" receiver like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JFK9SW...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Pros:
-Lighter than some other options? To be confirmed
-Winch is removable so, no extra weight for daily driving
-Winch can be moved to the rear bumper if needed, with proper power setup.
-You attach whatever you want in the front receiver and use it as a recovery point, winch or not.
-Solid base to add a bull bar? Maybe? Why not!
-Winch mount fit more winch models, less space constraints.
-No fabrication needed for basic setup.

Cons:
-Does not look cool... Like your T4R belongs behind a RV...IMHO
-Not sure about the installation (not really a "con")
-Still a pricey option overall

There are cheaper front receivers, but not high clearance. Not sure yet what I want to do, but the front receiver does open some options.

Your thoughts?

thanks for your thoughts. i knew about these but to be truthful its pretty much a 'just, no' for me

 

[jcaino]

I do have another option in mind for a winch plate. I am looking at the high clearance front receiver hitch from CBI

Toyota 4th Gen 4Runner High Clearance Front Receiver Hitch - CBI Offroad Fab

with a universal winch mount plate for a 2" receiver like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JFK9SW...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Pros:
-Lighter than some other options? To be confirmed
-Winch is removable so, no extra weight for daily driving
-Winch can be moved to the rear bumper if needed, with proper power setup.
-You attach whatever you want in the front receiver and use it as a recovery point, winch or not.
-Solid base to add a bull bar? Maybe? Why not!
-Winch mount fit more winch models, less space constraints.
-No fabrication needed for basic setup.

Cons:
-Does not look cool... Like your T4R belongs behind a RV...IMHO
-Not sure about the installation (not really a "con")
-Still a pricey option overall

There are cheaper front receivers, but not high clearance. Not sure yet what I want to do, but the front receiver does open some options.

Your thoughts?

Lighter, but doesnt offer any protection, though with a lo-pro bumper or hidden mount, that's somewhat of a draw.

Removable also means it could be a pain in the ass to get into position when you need it.

Attaching to the rear - you can winch backwards from the front with a snatch block, so that's not that big a deal, also read above.

Add a bull bar? You mean a damage enhancer? Why not just go with a full bumper then?

I think its more of a solution looking for a problem. You're either better going for a lo-pro or hidden option or go all-out with a full bumper.

 

[Alainzen]

Lighter, but doesnt offer any protection, though with a lo-pro bumper or hidden mount, that's somewhat of a draw.

Removable also means it could be a pain in the ass to get into position when you need it.

Attaching to the rear - you can winch backwards from the front with a snatch block, so that's not that big a deal, also read above.

Add a bull bar? You mean a damage enhancer? Why not just go with a full bumper then?

I think its more of a solution looking for a problem. You're either better going for a lo-pro or hidden option or go all-out with a full bumper.

I get it... I agree with you that a full or partial winch bumper is more desirable, no doubt about that.

 

[cbailey1523]

thanks for the info. i saw aluminum bar for the 5th gens...the 4th gen is mine, 2004, steel crossmember, and the turn signals are for 5th gen front bumpers. this is the one from your sight i would need:
LFD Off Road - Adjustable Hidden Winch Mount - 4th Gen 4R

do you have install instructions you could link or reference, from pics looks like yours replaces the crossmember? maybe not. if you guys have a decent sale ill consider this over the bud built. looks like the LFD in your picture on 4th gen sits low where you had to cut lower bumper as opposed to just the center of the bumper on a lot of the budbuilt ones.

thanks

Tom

I like that hidden setup. It's super nice

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