Buy once,cry once or practicality?

[MrGainzz]

What’s your thoughts on Billy and King ?Looking to buy a suspension that offers the best reliability( especially in winter due to the salt and potential corrosion )and ride quality for both on and off road since my 2017 ltd is my daily driver. It seems that Billy is the most popular one out there for now due to the price and positive reviews but I’ve also seen tons of people who keep saying that go with the King,so you won’t need to upgrade it in the future. So should I follow the principle “do things right in the first time “ and “buy once,cry once?”


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[Jeremy556]

One thread for the same question is more than enough.

You see that zip tie holding the misalignment spacers at the bottom of the King shock? Between those is a spherical bearing, there is another between the top of the shock and the top mounting plate. The Bilstein has a nice OEM like rubber bushing that will stand up to salt and probably 50-70K miles of regular use, maybe more.

Here in the desert, where we haven't had any snow for the past couple of years, I have been averaging about 9 months out of them. Years when it does snow a bit and CDOT throws down mag chloride, maybe 15-20 times per year, life expectancy drops below 6 months. 12-15K miles, tops.

Here is my on hand spare drawer

Then there is of course the rebuilds. You'll be removing your shocks and mailing them off for a week, unless you DIY and it still several days of down time and major hassle.

I have "high end" shocks, have real use for them, have the tools and know how to work on them, happen to live in the best environment for their shortcomings and they are still a pain in the ass.

 

[Easyrider18]

I've had King shocks on my desert vehicles since 2005 and have yet to have an issue with them. However, unless you are really hitting the desert hard it's just high maintenance bling IMO.

 

[3wbdriver]

I'd have loved to do an Icon Stage 6, but the region I live in doesn't have the kind of trails to justify that expense, and I don't run that fast off road anymore. I'm almost 90,000 miles into my first set of Bilstein 5100's and they are still going strong. Even after several hundred pounds of extra steel and armor. No regrets.

 

[MrGainzz]

One thread for the same question is more than enough.

You see that zip tie holding the misalignment spacers at the bottom of the King shock? Between those is a spherical bearing, there is another between the top of the shock and the top mounting plate. The Bilstein has a nice OEM like rubber bushing that will stand up to salt and probably 50-70K miles of regular use, maybe more.

Here in the desert, where we haven't had any snow for the past couple of years, I have been averaging about 9 months out of them. Years when it does snow a bit and CDOT throws down mag chloride, maybe 15-20 times per year, life expectancy drops below 6 months. 12-15K miles, tops.

Here is my on hand spare drawer

Then there is of course the rebuilds. You'll be removing your shocks and mailing them off for a week, unless you DIY and it still several days of down time and major hassle.

I have "high end" shocks, have real use for them, have the tools and know how to work on them, happen to live in the best environment for their shortcomings and they are still a pain in the ass.

Thank you so much ,Jeremy! Didn’t know the maintenance on King was quite complicated and it looks like King is way overkilled for the majority of people.


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[MrGainzz]

I'd have loved to do an Icon Stage 6, but the region I live in doesn't have the kind of trails to justify that expense, and I don't run that fast off road anymore. I'm almost 90,000 miles into my first set of Bilstein 5100's and they are still going strong. Even after several hundred pounds of extra steel and armor. No regrets.

Impressive,CJ! Why didn’t you go with 6112/5160?


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[borfoo3]

What’s your thoughts on Billy and King ?Looking to buy a suspension that offers the best reliability( especially in winter due to the salt and potential corrosion )and ride quality for both on and off road since my 2017 ltd is my daily driver. It seems that Billy is the most popular one out there for now due to the price and positive reviews but I’ve also seen tons of people who keep saying that go with the King,so you won’t need to upgrade it in the future. So should I follow the principle “do things right in the first time “ and “buy once,cry once?”


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As a daily driver with what doesn’t sound as any form of extreme off-road use, I say stick with the Billys given you don’t pay top $ on them

This is coming from a guy on KINGs and ex-6112 user.. I love my KINGS, but they didn’t make sense until I found myself pushing my rig more in the off roads and the lack of decent rear shock options (plus the T4R is no longer my daily drive)

 

[MrGainzz]

As a daily driver with what doesn’t sound as any form of extreme off-road use, I say stick with the Billys given you don’t pay top $ on them

This is coming from a guy on KINGs and ex-6112 user.. I love my KINGS, but they didn’t make sense until I found myself pushing my rig more in the off roads and the lack of decent rear shock options (plus the T4R is no longer my daily drive)

Appreciate it ,brother! How many miles have you put on your king and have you sent them back for maintenance yet?
You know what? I will probably have the same mindset as you did. What if I find myself pushing my rig to go extreme in the off roads in the future? That’s why Im considering about getting the King although I would use them more of a daily driver for now if I had them. The only I am worried about is the reliability and how well they can survive in winter.


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[borfoo3]

Appreciate it ,brother! How many miles have you put on your king and have you sent them back for maintenance yet?
You know what? I will probably have the same mindset as you did. What if I find myself pushing my rig to go extreme in the off roads in the future? That’s why Im considering about getting the King although I would use them more of a daily driver for now if I had them. The only I am worried about is the reliability and how well they can survive in winter.


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Swapped out to the KINGs late 2017, so still too early to tell anything maintenance wise. Plus we don’t have snow or salty roads here, only extreme heat and dust. Not worried on rust.

Once you find yourself wanting to ‘Upgrade’ to KINGs, just sell your billy shocks to a dude with a stock FJ.. thats what I did and he loves them!

 

[Soccer13]

On my previous 4runner I started with icon stage 1 and hated how harsh the ride was I was at about 2.5”, swapped them out on a set of Kings and never looked back, I will never use the kings to their full capacity but the ride you just can’t beat even on street rides. On my new Pro I was actually really impressed with the TRD pro bilstein suspension if it had the option to move up to 3” I would have probably just run them till they wore out, but ended up selling them again for Kings. No experience with the non pro Billy’s but if they ride anything like the pro did with adjustability it’s worth it to save $$

 

[Tuc4R]

If your looking at that price range, I would look into ADS. They come with a very good coating, and I’ve heard they holdup better than any of the main brands. I’m just getting ready to install them in a few weeks. I just deal with heat and dust also.

 

[MrGainzz]

If your looking at that price range, I would look into ADS. They come with a very good coating, and I’ve heard they holdup better than any of the main brands. I’m just getting ready to install them in a few weeks. I just deal with heat and dust also.

Thank you! I’ve never heard of them though ,are they the same league of fox and king in terms of popularity?


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[3wbdriver]

Impressive,CJ! Why didn’t you go with 6112/5160?

I can't vouch for the 5160 but the 6112 didn't exist when I was buying in early 2014.

 

[Tuc4R]

Thank you! I’ve never heard of them though ,are they the same league of fox and king in terms of popularity?


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They are a small company in Tucson AZ. They have been around for quite awhile. I think ADS is every bit as good if not better than Fox, King, Icon.
Do a little research on them, hard to find any negative info.

 

[TrDpRo_J]

I'm on 6112's (pro sus) and I've managed just under 20k miles and I off road at least twice a week. I rock crawl a little once a month in an off road park - I'm starting to see the limitations BUT I'm very happy with them for a stock item.

I looked at kings and icon but after talking to people at meets etc I'm not that committed to pull the trigger on either brands, in my track car days I had a lot of fun times with Bils from reliability to compliance and adjustability - so currently waiting for the 8112's to drop for the 4R platform.

So far I've met 3 people who have rebuilt icons under 20k which for a daily is lame. I guess it depends what kind of driving you're planning on doing

 

[MrGainzz]

I'm on 6112's (pro sus) and I've managed just under 20k miles and I off road at least twice a week. I rock crawl a little once a month in an off road park - I'm starting to see the limitations BUT I'm very happy with them for a stock item.



I looked at kings and icon but after talking to people at meets etc I'm not that committed to pull the trigger on either brands, in my track car days I had a lot of fun times with Bils from reliability to compliance and adjustability - so currently waiting for the 8112's to drop for the 4R platform.



So far I've met 3 people who have rebuilt icons under 20k which for a daily is lame. I guess it depends what kind of driving you're planning on doing

Thank you so much! Looks like I should be waiting for the 8112 too due to the reliability and positive reviews about Billy.

That’s crazy,those high end shocks are supposed to last longer if they are mainly used for street drivings. No wonder why some gurus and my local off road parts shop suggest Billy for daily drivings and weekend warriors.


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[wfo9]

Thank you so much! Looks like I should be waiting for the 8112 too due to the reliability and positive reviews about Billy.

That’s crazy,those high end shocks are supposed to last longer if they are mainly used for street drivings. No wonder why some gurus and my local off road parts shop suggest Billy for daily drivings and weekend warriors.


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Don't be too convinced by these anecdotal comments.

The billies are adequate for limited use, but they don't perform great. You may however not notice the difference... they do degrade rather quickly IMHO. You simply don't notice the degradation as much. Many higher end shocks will last 70k between rebuilds and perform well during that entire time. Anything higher end from bilstein ( they do make higher end stuff that you referred to that is rebuildable) will need the exact same rebuild interval as the fluid and seals all degrade over time in everything except a twin tube emulsion shock. The higher end stuff also typically use bearings over rubber bushings.

There is no such thing as having it all.. No perfect answer.. just choices depending on your priorities of performance vs fire and forget. Honestly, if you want install and never touch again.. OME std overland stuff... will last the lifetime of the truck and impossible to hurt them. Dobinson probably similar with their twin tube style stuff.

 

[nb rob]

Jeremy556 is spot on

You’ll go through spherical bearings a lot more often. The kings use the com16t in the lower rears, which are more expensive to replace. They will succumb to corrosion faster than the coilover upper and lowers.

If you are planning to rebuild yourself, go for it. They’re easy to maintain, and the parts are readily available.

If you’re planning to ship your shocks away for a rebuild- I wouldn’t go for it personally. Not from Canada. And not from Edmonton. All of the stuff I’ve gotten from King have been to my USA mailbox. They aren’t fond of shipping to Canada. And if they did, it would be a fortune.

rebuilds won’t be as common as replacing spherical bearings. And it’s not that king shocks require more maintenance.... non rebuildable shocks also have a service life. A lot of people seem to run non rebuildable shocks beyond their lifespan. Waiting for them to leak seems to be the accepted service interval reminder. Not ideal.

If you don’t have the means of removing shocks and coilovers to replace spherical bearings, I would recommend shocks that use rubber bushings. And I would consider dobinsons over bilsteins.

 

[honda250xtitan]

And I would consider dobinsons over bilsteins.

twin tube biscuits as PRG called those type of shocks lolol

 

[nb rob]

twin tube biscuits as PRG called those type of shocks lolol

I think of that writeup every time I see white body shocks on a bracket lifted truck

I hope PRG is still doing well