Checking for siezed engine ????

[Traveler74]

I have been having a great deal of trouble with the 1996 4-runner that I bought a few months back. At first, it refused to continue running when at idle. Engine would just shut off. One of the many things I did was doing an engine flush with an off the shelf engine flush. Truck started but I had to keep the rev's about 2,500 RPM's to keep it running. Even still, a about 3 minutes into the engine flush the truck stopped running.
Now it will not start. Battery is brand new and I tested the voltage … 12.68 volts. New battery cable terminals. Tested voltage at the terminals, also 12.68 volts. When I tried to start the truck, I heard a click/clunk. But no engine turning over.
This Saturday, I will remove the spark plugs and attempt to manually turn the engine by hand.
I have never done this before. How much power is it going to take to manually turn the engine over by hand ??? I have a 1996 T4R , automatic trans mission, 2 wheel drive. Oh, and should I place the transmission in neutral position.
Of course it MIGHT still be a bad starter motor.

 

[brillo_76]

With the plugs out. You can turn the engine over with a socket and rachet.

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[Traveler74]

With the plugs out. You can turn the engine over with a socket and rachet.

Yes, I know that BUT how much power does it take to turn engine by hand ???
Should I expect it to be VERY difficult to turn if engine is NOT seized ???

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Yes, I know that BUT how much power does it take to turn engine by hand ???
Should I expect it to be VERY difficult to turn if engine is NOT seized ???

A 1/2” Breaker bar is plenty. But the klick and no turn over is the starter needing contacts or replaced. If the engine was locked up and the starter was good your dash lights would dim.


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[dmppdx]

Yes, I know that BUT how much power does it take to turn engine by hand ???
Should I expect it to be VERY difficult to turn if engine is NOT seized ???

It shouldn't spin easily, but shouldn't be that hard with like an 18" breaker bar. Just a wild guess since I'm trying to remember, but I would guess you would have to apply about 40-50 lbs of pressure on an 18" breaker bar to turn over an engine.

 

[Malcolm99]

You can turn the motor over a bit with the spark plugs in with a 19mm socket, it will give you compression resistance as you go and slowly release compression and you should be able to get a rotation but really you just wanna turn it a bit to confirm your not seized it sounds like, but it'll turn if not seized with a bit of effort depending on how long the lever your using is, tighten the 19mm clockwise for engine rotation. Oh and Automatics can be left in park, no need to put it neutral.

Usually when the contacts in the solenoid fail you get that click and a couple tries with the key it usually catches until completely worn out. When I had a motor do what you discribed as a click and starter attempt it was a leaking head gasket hydro locking a cylinder, I could force the cylinder over by tightening the crank pulley bolt and then I could start it and smell that sweet rad fluid in the steamy exhaust, popped a lower rad hose off wheeling and didn't notice till I was in the red, replaced motor. Sounds weird yours is stalling though and won't stay running, mine ran perfect but would leak rad fluid in one cylinder when shut off. I'd do a compression test and check for rad fluid on the piston well your at it if you can get it to crank over proper. You need to pull the EFI relay and hold the throttle wide open for a compression test.

Edited for more detail and clarification.

 

[brillo_76]

A 1/2” Breaker bar is plenty. But the klick and no turn over is the starter needing contacts or replaced. If the engine was locked up and the starter was good your dash lights would dim.


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Yes I suspect the engine is not seized and the starter is more likely the problem.

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[19963.4lsr5]

Yes I suspect the engine is not seized and the starter is more likely the problem.

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Trying to remove my alternator pulley with my 7/8” socket I was turning my engine with the spark plugs in and there was no way I was removing that pulley without removing the Alt and clamping in a vice and hitting the nut with my impact wrench.


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[3bears]

If suspecting the starter sometimes you can tap the starter with a hammer, or something hard, and it will un stick the contacts. Does not always work, but I know it can

 

[Traveler74]

If suspecting the starter sometimes you can tap the starter with a hammer, or something hard, and it will un stick the contacts. Does not always work, but I know it can

One hell of a great idea. I never would have thought of that. Thanks, buddy.

 

[Kanoe]

Yes starter can have these symptoms but from following your previous threads I’d say it’s highly unlikely your starter packed it in right at this instant.

I’d also say that pulling and replacing the plugs on the v6 might be opening another can of worms for you. It’s not that simple especially if you don’t know how long the current ones have been in the engine.

Just try the ratchet on the engine as is. Medium arm strength should be able to move the crank a few degrees even if the plugs are in. You don’t need to spin it far to see if it is seized. If it won’t move at all then you can try the plugs.

As for your idle issue, many threads ago you talked about a massive hole in your intake plumbing. Did you replace these parts? The engine will not idle if the intake system has air leaks, especially big ones.

Good luck my friend.

 

[Malcolm99]

Don't hammer on the starter or solenoid, tap maybe, but it maybe better to cross the positive large terminals with screw driver to start but NeVeR hammer/tap on a starter or solenoid if you want to rebuild the OEM parts, any other starter will be sub-par components compared to the Toyota starter you wanna keep, it's just the copper contacts in the solenoid that wear down over time you can easily replaced for $30.

 

[Traveler74]

Yes starter can have these symptoms but from following your previous threads I’d say it’s highly unlikely your starter packed it in right at this instant.

I’d also say that pulling and replacing the plugs on the v6 might be opening another can of worms for you. It’s not that simple especially if you don’t know how long the current ones have been in the engine.

Just try the ratchet on the engine as is. Medium arm strength should be able to move the crank a few degrees even if the plugs are in. You don’t need to spin it far to see if it is seized. If it won’t move at all then you can try the plugs.

As for your idle issue, many threads ago you talked about a massive hole in your intake plumbing. Did you replace these parts? The engine will not idle if the intake system has air leaks, especially big ones. {/B]

Good luck my friend.

I replaced the spark plugs with new platinum ones as soon as I bought the truck.
Massive hole in the air intake system ?? Oh, yes. Now I remember. There was a crack in the corrugated air tube just prior to it going into the throttle body. As a temporary measure, I taped it up good and tight. I had planned on cleaning the throttle body and IAC but this new issue popped up before I could get to it.

 

[Malcolm99]

Don't use anything but denso Toyota dual ground plugs as advised on the Tbelt cover warning X they should be gapped ready to go or you can get NGK, same style plug. No anti seize, they come with a coating.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

You can’t rely on tape to seal off the crack in your intake tube.

You need to replace the tube. Or seal it with RTV. Not tape. This could be why your engine dies after a few min of running. Your engine will not run is the correct airflow is not flowing through the MAF sensor.

Read post voltage at the battery when you try and start it. If it doesn’t drop into the low 11v or lower range trying to turn over the engine you have a bad starter and need to replace it or the contacts inside it.


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[Traveler74]

You can’t rely on tape to seal off the crack in your intake tube.

You need to replace the tube. Or seal it with RTV. Not tape. This could be why your engine dies after a few min of running. Your engine will not run is the correct airflow is not flowing through the MAF sensor.

Read post voltage at the battery when you try and start it. If it doesn’t drop into the low 11v or lower range trying to turn over the engine you have a bad starter and need to replace it or the contacts inside it.


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That click/clunk I hear when I try to start the engine, is that the solenoid ? Does that tell you the solenoid is working ? PS: when I try to start it the 2nd time I do NOT hear any click/clunk.