Clutch grinding and difficulty shifting

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doublezer6

New member
The clutch has been an ongoing problem for me on my '91 T4R V6 over the last few years. Thought I solved the problem a few times now but it keeps resurfacing.

Current issue: shifting into reverse is difficult and there is almost always grinding sound as I get it to finally pop into gear. Additionally, shifting into first and second gear requires me to use a lot of force to get into gear, and problem is starting to get worse in gears 3-5. Have to have the clutch pedal pressed all the way to the floor with as much force as my leg can muster.

I replaced the master and slave cylinders in last 2-3 years, and adjusted the push rod as best I know how. I am still new to this so if anyone happens to have additional information on how best to adjust the push rod play, would be very helpful as well.

Someone has suggested that they suspect it is time the pressure plate is replaced. Best to just replace entire clutch? Thoughts? Suggestions?
 
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DE JA VU!

Funny, this was just covered a few weeks ago. Try searching for CLUTCH, you'll find another thread about gringing into reverse.
 
flyinhawaiian01 said:
DE JA VU!

Funny, this was just covered a few weeks ago. Try searching for CLUTCH, you'll find another thread about gringing into reverse.
Click to expand...

Assuming this is the post that you are referring to? http://www.toyota-4runner.org/classic-t4rs/6279-grinding-into-reverse.html

I saw that you wrote the following (see my answers in red):
First things first, where's the pedal grabbing when you take off? Barely off the floor? Almost at the end of the pedal's travel? In the middle? It is difficult to get into the gear at all, usually having to slam the gear into place, and is grabbing immediately as the pedal comes off the floor.

Does it grind in all gears? Is it hard to go into all of them, or just reverse, or reverse and first? Reverse specifically grinds when putting into gear. 1st and 2nd gears are very difficult to get into, but no grinding, almost feels like having to just force into the gear with a pop. 3rd and 4th gear are similar to 1st and 2nd but not nearly as bad.

Does the clutch slip in 4th or 5th when you floor it? Is there any burning clutch smell when you park? No slipping or burning yet as far as I can tell.




I'm wondering if I should try replacing the master cylinder or maybe try adjusting the push rod again...?
 
Sounds like you need to adjust the pushrod, its too far in, needs to come out further.

If that doesn't do it, then you'll need to check the next items in the list, such as bleeding the master/slave.

I'd check for leaks or weeping/wet spots around the master, your carpet inside the truck just below the pedal, as well as the slave cylinder at the transmission. If any of these are wet or dripping, you should replace them. Its a super-easy system to replace, iirc, if you have a 10, 12 and 14mm wrench, you should be able to replace each of these parts easily!

I've extracted and saved a copy of the clutch section in the manual for your reference:

http://kolohe.net/t4r/clutch%20section.pdf
 
I should have also noted, I don't think the clutch is bad from what you're describing, it just sounds like you're not getting enough pedal travel to disengage the clutch fully, so its grinding when you put it into gears.

I've also heard of bent clutch forks, but try working the free repairs first. Won't cost you a thing to get the adjuster pulled all the way out to the end of its adjustment, see if that makes it work properly. Also, checking for leaks and bleeding the system costs nothing, and its also on the list of remedies for your issue.

And, if you're going to bleed it, you might as well change the fluid completely. System is just like bleeding the brakes, so if you've done that before, this will be pretty similar. For draining the clutch, I just pull the bleeder out of the slave and let it drain into a pan overnight. Pumping a couple of times slowly will get most of the fluid out. Wipe the reservoir with a lint-free towel and wipe the little black "puck" inside the unit down, its usually dirty, if its even there at all.

Refill with dot 3 brake fluid and when it starts dripping from the slave, screw the bleeder back in. Then its just pump and bleed till there's no bubbles!
 
[MENTION=118444]flyinhawaiian01[/MENTION] has some good pointers for diagnosis. It would also be helpful to know the mileage of your runner, it could be possible that the syncros are about done and your trans is due for a rebuild. Also what is your driving style? I understand there could be other causes for grinding in 1 and R but how you shift through 2-5 could be just your style of driving. Are you really racing it jamming gears fast? I have found if you pause a second between gears the shift is smooth as butter. If you are trying to jam it into gear after pushing in the clutch in any vehicle the gears are likely to grind and be difficult to fall into place.

Also check your clutch pedal bracket for any tears or cracks allowing deflection of the bracket. I had this happen. I swore I could not adjust the pedal any more even though it was grabbing just off the floor, then I noticed the right side had a big crack. I hope this is not your case, it is a real PITA to get that bracket out and then back in.
 
One thing, what trans fluid are you running? If you're using a modern GL5, it's probably torn up your synchros. In that case try a real GL4 like Redline MT90 or Royal Purple.
 
Hmmm, think it was from the '88 4 runner manual? I don't recall which one I grabbed it from, as I have about 10 different truck/4runner manuals on my hard drive!

They should all adjust relatively the same, if not exactly the same though. I know my '87 is identical to that manual.

Just looked in the '95 manual, yep, its identical.
 
The FSM will advise you that the pedal should have half an inch of play before it contacts the "rod" for the master. If that is how you adjusted it and you are having problems, then consider adjusting the rod so there is just a millimeter or two of play between the pedal and the rod. If you need additional throw, you can actually raise the pedal itself higher off the floor, too, giving you more room to adjust the rod out without contact/preload. BUT - you really shouldn't have to adjust the pedal higher. So, that means there is most likely a problem.

Everyone I have dealt with that knows how to adjust these things adjusts within a few mm of play, ensuring that there is no pre-load on the rod. The half an inch of play will cause issues like you are having.

Also, the $9 slave and master cyls you can buy at autozone leave much to be desired. If you are running these cheap parts you can run into this issues.

Ask me how I know all of this stuff!
 
89FourRunner said:
Also, the $9 slave and master cyls you can buy at autozone leave much to be desired. If you are running these cheap parts you can run into this issues.
Click to expand...

I'll be messing with rod and height adjustments again this afternoon, but assuming this doesnt fix the problem I'll move on to replacing the master and slave next (might as well just do both at once, right?). Recommendations of where to get better parts that what you get through AutoZone?
 
doublezer6 said:
I'll be messing with rod and height adjustments again this afternoon, but assuming this doesnt fix the problem I'll move on to replacing the master and slave next (might as well just do both at once, right?). Recommendations of where to get better parts that what you get through AutoZone?
Click to expand...

Your friendly neighborhood stealership might have them in stock. If not, Amazon and Rockauto probably have the Denso parts (I think they're Denso, maybe Aisin?).
 
doublezer6 said:
I'll be messing with rod and height adjustments again this afternoon, but assuming this doesnt fix the problem I'll move on to replacing the master and slave next (might as well just do both at once, right?). Recommendations of where to get better parts that what you get through AutoZone?
Click to expand...

Rock auto has AISIN OEs in stock.
 
And Aisin is the oe brand, I have that in my truck right now and both parts have been working well for years. They aren't that expensive either.

If you replace the master, might as well replace the slave too, its not expensive and you might as well get it all done at once.
 
Similar Issues (Fixes/Diagnosis?)

Hi All - I just bought a 2000 5 speed manual and the clutch pedal has similar issues. Has a smaller range of motion to it than most manual cars I have driven (I also owned an '88 4runner manual). I am curious if this is typical for this year and/or generation?

Also, the clutch pedal is very tight when pushing it enough down to engage, extreme amount of pressure to push it to the floor, and I was wondering if this is typical as well for year/gen or an issue? I would add that I have to jam it into the floor for it to start.

Additionally is it possible to loosen the pedal up so it does not take so much effort to push it in?

I would hardly call the gear changing smooth or easy, and it is easily the most difficult out of any car I have driven.

Thanks!
 
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Sounds to me like a booster issue sometimes when they start to go bad they can cause it to be very difficult to push down the clutch pedal
 
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I am pretty much a novice to fixing cars, but I am open to trying something on my own if not terribly complicated. Can you elaborate on the booster issue? I was reviewing the clutch manuals in the previous posts and was thinking that maybe the pedal height and push rod aren't correct, or potentially something is wrong with the master cylinder?

Appreciate all the help I can get as I am not trying to drop 1K at a dealer after I just purchased it.

Thanks!
 
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