Contemplating whether I should buy a 4th gen 4runner

[Bastor]

Hey guys,

First of all I want to apologize if this is not the correct board for this topic - I could not find a better place for it but if the mods deem it necessary - they can move it to whichever board they find more appropriate.

A second apology - English is not my native tongue so if any spelling is wrong or meaning is lost it's probably due to that.

And third - if you wish to skip all the fluff/backstory - my direct question is the last paragraph.

First of all a bit of background - I'm currently driving an older Kia Sportage that I'm looking to replace. It's an old-school body-on-frame (stepladder or whatever they call it), vehicle that can handle most terrain - especially the $*** that passes for streets out here in Eastern Europe (oh yeah did I mention - I'm going to be importing the car, but more on that below).

The main reason I'm looking for a new car - rust has started eating it apart. When I was buying it the bottom looked well sealed with a special coating, but turns out - it was just used to hide the rusting and to my surprise last year I was looking at an expensive repair - had welders replace the badly rusted back-side of the frame with new steel bars, and it's by no means "fixed" as some of you may know - rust is like an unstoppable force.

Long story short - I'm going to sell this one for parts as soon as I can grab a new one as repairing a rusting frame is just not viable and not a long-term solution.


As to why I decided to import - we have family in FL, who helped out with shipping two cars around 8-9 years ago back here intended for personal use by my father and mother. Though they were about the same price as buying them here (when you include shipping, and taxes for actually importing a vehicle) the pros in doing this far outweigh the cons

- The cars have been going strong and only now are showing specs of surface rust - 9 years later
- The ability to be able to do a VIN check is HUGE! We have nothing compared to that here in the EU, which leads to shifty characters importing broken down vehicles just to sell them at a big profit - you have no idea what horror stories I have witnessed - check lamps being re-reouted so that the vehicle seems to not be showing any errors, putting a long bottle cap inside the oil check/dish so it seems the car has the same level of oil and isn't leaking any, rusted buckets painted over to hide the rust and look as if they were coated in a protective layer (my case where it's rusting apart in 4-5 years)
- Better mechanics have worked on the cars, usually dealerships, whereas over here going to the official dealership is seen as expensive and everyone find some random BIlly-Bob (we call them бай Иван over here) to work on their vehicle (not a practice I support), but something done regularly.


My budget is around 17,500 USD but all things considered - Import customs tax + shipping container + having some extra cash for any repairs that might come up (like timing belt and water pump + new tires + anything smaller that pops up like any paint scratches from road, heated mirrors, replace X-REAS with normal suspension, CV Boots might be off, other unexpected stuff) so my end-budget for the car itself is around 10,000-11,000 $


Why I like the idea of a 4runner:
- People say it's REALLY reliable and I need reliable
- The roads out here are bad. We have a few good main roads, but most smaller ones look like this or worse: https://i.imgur.com/vtzw6hK.jpg so I need a capable off-roader for...well...on-roading here
- Utilitarian in nature - I have never cared much for any stuff like heated seats
- Can fit a lot INSIDE - really felt bad yesterday when I got a new couch and I had to have the guys from IKEA ship it to me. I like being self-reliant and I've never had a "truck" but the thought really. This is more of a non-objective "I want to feel manly" type of thing - but it's good.
- I like exploring - I want to go out to the beautiful mountainsides we have here, and..well drive there. It's a really empowering feeling driving across a field in an off-roader or climbing the side of a mountain - light off-road but it's still off the road.




So finally my doubts - I can buy a newer car with more bells and whistles for less at less more the same millage.


So for the question at hand - should I get and older 4runner with more miles on it or a newer rav4 with less miles but...well it's not a real truck - for my daily driver. Would a newer Rav4 last longer than an older 4runner (considering equal amount of maintenance from the owner on both)?

The examples I could find are these two - though not perfect since the 4runner is a little under the budget:

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/cto/d/toyota-4runner-v8-4wd/6351430112.html
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/d/2009-toyota-rav4/6364979065.html

Sorry for the long post or if I'm asking the wrong questions. I'm just a bit lost and I really want a body-on-frame truck but I'm basically trying to convince myself it's worth it over buying a newer SUV.


Any helpful or unhelpful posts will both be appreciated

Cheers!

 

[Supersonic]

Frame rust is what you'll likely want to know/inspect on the 4Runner. For example local dealer has 2 advertised as rust free body but the frames are scaling with rust, where someone looking at my 2005 frame commented it looked new. The radiator support is a place to start looking for symptoms of rust.

4Runner is otherwise a good choice and there will be problems but you'll have a consistently well built vehicle to work with. I am new to the 4Runner but I have the v6 with 295k and mostly it just needed the service work updated and I like that it has a timing chain, hopefully one less component to work on, but there are components obviously associated with that system that wear to.

And those v6 built before 12/2005 will likely need a new head gasket, the old design was updated about that date. Speaking for the v6, I'd say don't let high mileage deter you, just negotiate a price you can get by with.

Rav4, I'd rather have the 4cyl, easier to work on and there's plenty of power, I have a 2005 Camry with 2.4, timing chain too, the designed changed in 2007 there is also a 2.5 starting around 2011. Like any other Toyota if it's not burning oil and isn't rusted out, it's probably a good car.

The Rav4 3.5 v6 does have a oil line that is the weak spot, you can start research on that on https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/RAV4/2009/ and https://repairpal.com/toyota-rav4-2009/problems, first on to see 'what's wrong', second one for 'can I overcome this issue'?

Here's the links for 2003 4Runner's, https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/4Runner/2003/ and https://repairpal.com/cars/toyota/4runner/2003

You can easily do a search on year, make, model, and the word 'problems' and your first 2 returns will likely be carcomplaints.com and repairpal.com to speed up figuring out what you could be getting into, 2007 Toyota 4Runner problems for example: https://www.bing.com/search?q=2007+Toyota+4Runner+problems&pc=MOZI&form=MOZCON

Good luck too, I think you've got a great opportunity to get a vehicle you keep around for a long time compared to all others, it's hard to compete with the consistency of Toyota, though they will have issues you usually only have to fix things once.

 

[RonJR]

Just a few semi-random comments.
- Rust is a big issue, even on 4runners, if they've spent a lot of time in snow country, particularly the upper Midwest or Northeast USA. Since you have family in Florida, they should be able to find a rust-free 4runner around there pretty easily. Look for ones either from the southeast or southwest USA.
- As you know, the 4runner is a body-on-frame design. The Rav4 is a unibody. The Rav4 will probably ride better on your bad roads, but likely not last as long.
- The Rav4 does not have a low-range transfer case. That isn't important for highway driving, but might be important to you if you want to explore the backcountry where you live.
- The Rav4 will get better gas mileage. The 4runner is not a gas-saver, if that's important to you.
- Toyota has never really made a bad engine. Even the ones with headgasket issues (3.0 V6, 4.0 V6) primarily only develop those issues at mileages where most other engines have already been consigned to the junkyard. And, beyond headgaskets, most Toyota engines are still going strong well past 200,000 miles.

I think the 4th gen 4runner is one of the best combos of good highway manners, rugged offroad capability, and relatively uncomplicated reliability out there. If you find a clean, rust-free one, I'm pretty sure you'll be happy.

 

[Bastor]

I really appreciate the information guys.

Yeah the more I look into it - the better the 4runner looks - not that the Rav4 isn't reliable but the 4runner with the V8 seems to be beyond reliable.

Also I got inside 2010 Rav4 yesterday - I can't actually fit all too well, being 6 foot 6, headroom there seems to be lacking at best.

I forgot to mention that initial rust shouldn't be present since we're buying from FL - all the cars there seem to be spotless (at least the ones that weren't imported out of state).

I've been looking at a lot of options but aside from the lexus (GX 470) equivalent there seems to be nothing in this price range that offers what the 4runner does - plenty of space, reliability and a body-on-frame design.

Do you think I should be worried about high millage if the maintenance records are good and water pump + timing belt have been done?

I'm trying to figure out how many miles are too many - most seem to be in the 120k+ range from what I'm seeing.

 

[RonJR]

I bought my '06 at 120K, two years ago. It was pristine at the time, and I have no regrets. 35K miles later, it still feels like an almost new car. Only issues I've had are a leaking CV boot and a failed O2 sensor. I fully expect to get another 100,000 miles out of the engine and drive train.

Look up how to drain/fill the transmission on this board. That's probably the most neglected piece of maintenance on these vehicles, since Toyota doesn't specify a service interval for the transmission.

I think you can expect at least 250K miles out of a clean, well-maintained unit, and probably closer to 300K. My immediate family has 5 4runners, ranging in mileage from 150K to 300K. All are running strong. Only major issue has been one head gasket.

 

[ukbloke]

Also I got inside 2010 Rav4 yesterday - I can't actually fit all too well, being 6 foot 6, headroom there seems to be lacking at best.

I'm 6'5" and bought my 4th Gen V8 4Runner in 2003. Still going strong today at 175K miles. I recommend finding one without a sunroof to get about another 1.5" of headroom.

Since you live in Europe and petrol may be more expensive there, you should make sure that the fuel economy is going to work for you. Assuming that you have proper imperial size gallons (25% bigger than the US!), you can assume about 20mpg assuming reasonably fuel-efficient driving.

 

[63PGP]

I would have the people buying verify that 4H and 4L work. Shift in and out of both about 10-15 times and make sure each change works perfectly. If not, I'd tell them to walk. There are quite a few threads on transfer case issues so read those so you can instruct them how to test it.

 

[duffdog]

Personally,

I know several people with highlanders and rav4's that literally can not go off road for any length of time without breaking something.

A 4runner is intended to be a premium vehicle, one of only 2 possible new vehicles capable of actually going off road. Only the 4runner and Jeep wrangler are left as true off road vehicles. Everything else currently made is wimpy junk that I would not trust to get me home on even the slightest technical trail.

In your case, I would attempt to get a 4runner from either California, Arizona or Florida as you mentioned. Rust in the snowy states does eat away at both the body and frame of most cars and renders them nearly worthless. However, if you happen to be looking for a 4runner in say...Pennsylvania, it is entirely possible to buy TWO of them for the same price as a single 4runner from California. They just might be rusted.

 

[Rodtheviking]

The northwest is a good place too, like this example.

https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/d/2005-toyota-4runner-sr5-4wd/6336825498.html

I would go for 2005 and up for the 5 speed transmission.

 

[Bastor]

I bought my '06 at 120K, two years ago. It was pristine at the time, and I have no regrets. 35K miles later, it still feels like an almost new car. Only issues I've had are a leaking CV boot and a failed O2 sensor. I fully expect to get another 100,000 miles out of the engine and drive train.

Oh my, that sounds really sweet.

Look up how to drain/fill the transmission on this board. That's probably the most neglected piece of maintenance on these vehicles, since Toyota doesn't specify a service interval for the transmission.

Haha yeah I read up that from the 2005 model onwards it's supposed to be using a "lifelong oil" or something of the sort which sounds crazy to me. But yeah when buying used I always do all fluids (including transmission one) and belts/tensioners, unless they have been done.

...Only major issue has been one head gasket.

From what I've read - the v6s before 2005 exhibit these issues? I'm kind of partial to the V8s anyway so I'm hoping I don't need to worry about that one

I'm 6'5" and bought my 4th Gen V8 4Runner in 2003. Still going strong today at 175K miles. I recommend finding one without a sunroof to get about another 1.5" of headroom.

Since you live in Europe and petrol may be more expensive there, you should make sure that the fuel economy is going to work for you. Assuming that you have proper imperial size gallons (25% bigger than the US!), you can assume about 20mpg assuming reasonably fuel-efficient driving.

Oh the sunroof one is really good advice! I didn't even take that into account. Cheers!

And regarding fuel economy - I'm expecting it to be around 13-14 mpg in city driving and hopefully 18 on the highway - that is something I would be happy with. 20 sounds like a dream. (We measure these really differently over here though - Liters per 100km so like 13 MPG is 18 liters of fuel for 100 kilometers or just shy of 5 gallons heh)

I would have the people buying verify that 4H and 4L work. Shift in and out of both about 10-15 times and make sure each change works perfectly. If not, I'd tell them to walk. There are quite a few threads on transfer case issues so read those so you can instruct them how to test it.

Solid advice! I'll have them check it thoroughly. I read up that it's a 2-3k repair so that's a big one.

Personally,

I know several people with highlanders and rav4's that literally can not go off road for any length of time without breaking something.

A 4runner is intended to be a premium vehicle, one of only 2 possible new vehicles capable of actually going off road. Only the 4runner and Jeep wrangler are left as true off road vehicles. Everything else currently made is wimpy junk that I would not trust to get me home on even the slightest technical trail.

In your case, I would attempt to get a 4runner from either California, Arizona or Florida as you mentioned. Rust in the snowy states does eat away at both the body and frame of most cars and renders them nearly worthless. However, if you happen to be looking for a 4runner in say...Pennsylvania, it is entirely possible to buy TWO of them for the same price as a single 4runner from California. They just might be rusted.

Yeah. Over here Rav4s are really popular but it's usually a city car/daily-driver for females. Especially the 2 door version is quite a hit with the ladies - but as you said it's not going to last off-road. They are well engineered cars though but it's a city vehicle.
The Highlanders - well we don't even have those.

The body-on-frame truck market has really shrunk. The wrangler seems to be a bit out of my reach since the 4 door versions are outside my price range and the 4runner I find is more aesthetically pleasing (yeah really, I'm kind of falling in love with it). Also JEEP parts are a bit more quite more expensive than Toyota parts to get a hold of here. I asked a buddy of mine who worked in Toyota and he said that it will be easy to get 4runner parts from the official dealership.

The northwest is a good place too, like this example.

https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/d/2005-toyota-4runner-sr5-4wd/6336825498.html

I would go for 2005 and up for the 5 speed transmission.

Regarding the place where I'll get it from - it will me Florida for sure. I have close family there who can actually take a look at the car and make sure it's good (they are mechanically inclined)


I really appreciate all the responses, you guys are awesome!


I've fallen in love with this car before I've even gotten it.

My only car advice person here is my father and he insisted that I should get an X3 or an Outlander but those are kind of lame and unibody town cars. Totally not into them.

-------------------

I actually found a pretty good looking 4runner on craigslist of all places - https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/04-toyota-4runner/6374863368.html

It's got low miles but it's a 2004 model with a V6 - is that a head head gasket issue for sure? Also a 4-speed tranny which isn't all that bad.

I've contacted the seller for more info and photos let's see where this lands

 

[RonJR]

That 2004 looks like a good one. My daughter and her husband bought a 2004 V6 18 months ago with 220,000 miles, and it is running like a dream. They paid $8000 for it, so $9900 for one with 95,000 miles is a steal unless there's some hidden problem.

The V6 is a good motor. Plenty of power, just not quite as snappy, nor as smooth, as the V8. But, you get a timing chain rather than a belt, so less periodic maintenance.

I wouldn't worry overmuch about the head gasket issue. It's true that head gaskets are the most common failure mode with some of these engines, but that's because pretty much nothing else ever breaks. Your chances of not having a HG problem are probably significantly greater than having one, especially before 200,000 miles.

(BTW, the head gasket issue that I was referring to in a previous post about my family fleet was on a '97 with 270,000 miles.)

 

[Bastor]

Wow 270,000 miles.

That's almost 10 laps around the planet

Really appreciate the extra info, I'll make sure to contact the guy, get more photos and ask some extra questions.

And yeah the prices looks really good so I'm wondering "What's wrong with it?"

But I guess we'll get that sorted after a call a few questions and a mechanics inspection.

 

[RonJR]

So just to brag a bit more on 4runner reliability, here is my list of engine/drive train related maintenance on the 5 in my extended family. (not counting oil/filter changes, plugs, batteries, other routine stuff, etc.)

- 1994 3.0V6 @217,000 miles - 1 timing belt (due for another), rear main crank seal at 180,00 miles.

- 1997 3.4V6 5spd @ 310,000 miles - 2 timing belts

- 1997 3.4V6 auto @ 270,000miles - 2 timing belts + 1 head gasket at 270,000.

- 2004 4.0V6 @240,000 miles - no non-routine maintenance

- 2006 4.7V8 @155,000 miles (the "new" one) - 1 timing belt, 1 O2 sensor.

That's 1.2 million miles total. Can you see why I don't lay awake nights worrying about failures in our high mileage 4runners? They're just really really good. Buy a clean one and don't look back.