Dealership Transmission Fluid Change?

[Hapeacres]

It seems to me that if the 04 V8 has 166,000 miles and has never been flushed, its about time. I want to drive this for another 166,000 miles and it does not make any sense to me to just leave it in there because its old. It's only going to get way older! What harm can the dealer do by flushing it out? They are suggesting to do so! They have the equipment that is necessary and the experience in dealing with a sealed transmission. It appears that many people here have posted that the dealer flushed their transmission with no ill effect and only improvement. I dont want to muck around with this myself and common sense dictates that the dealer knows what they are doing since they have done it so many times before.

 

[matthewpstro]

It seems to me that if the 04 V8 has 166,000 miles and has never been flushed, its about time. I want to drive this for another 166,000 miles and it does not make any sense to me to just leave it in there because its old. It's only going to get way older! What harm can the dealer do by flushing it out? They are suggesting to do so! They have the equipment that is necessary and the experience in dealing with a sealed transmission. It appears that many people here have posted that the dealer flushed their transmission with no ill effect and only improvement. I dont want to muck around with this myself and common sense dictates that the dealer knows what they are doing since they have done it so many times before.

I too was told a tranny flush would not be bad. My dealer quoted me $129 for a full flush as well. Now i'm debating it because its close to 87k and i'm beginning to realize just how poor of care the rig was given by its previous owner.

 

[Hapeacres]

I still am confused about this so I just called a second Toyota dealer near me. The service guy who answered the phone said that Toyota does not recommend any flushing because it is a lifetime sealed unit. He said the oil is good for the lifetime of the vehicle. He said if I was having problems than a flush may be recommended. I told him that I had 166,000 miles and wanted to go to 300,00 and I didnt think oil would last that long or be good for the engine. He said again it is a lifetime oil and that he has seen many vehicles with well over 200,000 miles. I asked him why another dealer recommended a flush and again he said Toyota does not recommend anything to be done to the transmission oil as it is a lifetime sealed transmission. I told him I wasnt having any transmission or shifting problems and he suggested I just leave it alone.

 

[jwyshrek]

Sorry to hear, but this is one of those subjects that if you ask 10 different people, you'll probably get 10 different answers.

My advice...'talk' to as many people as you can...mechanics, owners, etc. Read owner's manual, look at other forums and Google search, too.

In the end, get all the info you can...use common sense...but the final call is yours. Because of statistics, probability and luck (bad or otherwise), there isn't a definite answer. Just do what works for you and what you feel comfortable with...for example, some people change oil every 3000 miles, some every 5000 miles, some never...

Speaking of luck...isn't there some guy in another thread that claim to have 100K+ miles and never changed the oil filter??? This guy should buy a lotto ticket...

(On a side note...not only Toyota, but Honda (because of the two CRVs I have) flat out states no flushing...just drain and refill...)

 

[MikeInNH]

I think there is a lot of confusion on this.

Some say NEVER change it. Others say only have 100k miles. Yet others say every 50k..and even others say don't change it unless you're towing. Some say to Flush. Others say to NEVER flush..and to only drain and fill.

To me it's simple. What's the best method to keep this tranny running for 300k+ miles (which is only 40k more).

Answer - Change fluid every 50k miles. No flush. Just replace what's in the tranny every 50k miles with WS fluid. I think my 260k trouble free mileage proves it's working. And I do a LOT of towing during the summer. Can I go longer? Maybe. But so far it's cost me less then $500. I'm happy.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I think there is a lot of confusion on this.

Some say NEVER change it. Others say only have 100k miles. Yet others say every 50k..and even others say don't change it unless you're towing. Some say to Flush. Others say to NEVER flush..and to only drain and fill.

To me it's simple. What's the best method to keep this tranny running for 300k+ miles (which is only 40k more).

Answer - Change fluid every 50k miles. No flush. Just replace what's in the tranny every 50k miles with WS fluid. I think my 260k trouble free mileage proves it's working. And I do a LOT of towing during the summer. Can I go longer? Maybe. But so far it's cost me less then $500. I'm happy.

You're basically talking about draining the pan every 50k and putting 3-4qts in and not trying to flush the Torque Converter (typically why 8+ qts of fluid are used)? Because that is probably not an entirely bad idea, but really a full flush/exhange at 100k under normal driving is a pretty good interval from collective experience and observation.

As for what is the "official" line:

~Toyota says WS ATF is a "Lifetime" fluid and never needs to be replaced. Yet all of their service literature states it needs to be "inspected" at various intervals (this can easily be dismissed as simply looking for abnormal operation if you want to go that route.)

~To make matters more confusing multiple vehicle Owner's Manual and Service Table Charts show that under "Severe Driving Conditions" (there isn't exactly a definitive definition from Toyota from what I read, but its heavily implied that Towing and other hard on the vehicle driving is roughly what they mean) requires fluid flush/change at 60k followed by 30k service intervals. So much for "lifetime fluid."

~The general 100k you see floating around (and that I myself advocate) is a culmination of many dealerships, Toyota Technicians, Non-Toyota Technicians, and owners who have found that typically after about 100k the fluid seems to lose its "punch" and slippage, performance, and/or other subtle drivability concerns start to develop that are easily resolved by fresh fluid.

It is also important to note that Toyota has not released a definitive formula for WS fluid (thought some members on BobIsTheOilGuy have seemed to narrow the possible origin from either a German or Japanese contractor; but no accurate formulation has been deduced as far as I have seen), nor are there any "Toyota Approved" WS fluids in which Toyota has tested and approved the formulation meeting their standards, thus you have to use Toyota WS ATF because it is designed for the vehicle and so far no one makes an aftermarket alternative that has been tested and vetted and if the vehicle is under warranty it will be tested and rejected if found not to be Toyota WS Fluid (though this isn't really our concern here.)

Hopefully that helps sort things out.

 

[MikeInNH]

Because that is probably not an entirely bad idea, but really a full flush/exhange at 100k under normal driving is a pretty good interval from collective experience and observation.

That's right...And every transmission expert I've ever talked to...says you should NEVER EVER do a flush. Just replacing what's in the tranny every 50k miles is the BEST for the transmission. The place I use REFUSES to do flushes. He ends up rebuilding several transmissions a year who had their tranny's flushed.

 

[OkieSnuffBox]

i went to the dealer to see how much it cost for them to do it,
outrageous price, i told her i will do it myself, she tried to tell me i
cant do it myself and that theres a special tool needed to do it and
there the only ones that have it and wont sell it to the public,
i laughed and told her shes full of *$*%.

I paid $450 to have the trans, transfer case, and both diffs done.

I'd much rather drop car off in the morning, they give me a loaner, and I pick up my truck after work. VS laying on a cold garage floor for a weekend and needing a helper.

Then again, I barely like working on my track car, I really don't like working on my daily drivers.

 

[DC runner]

I had the same service. Front, rear and Transfer case fluid change, as well as Transmission fluid exchange.

Breakdown:
Rear/Front/Transfer - 159.61

Transmission Fluid Exchange - 269.00

= 428.00


I am very happy with the dealer performed services. They know and understand our transmissions, offered a non-externally powered fluid exchange which minimized damage issues.

The transfer cases were given synthetic fluid and I should, realistically, be good for 10 more years.

 

[derek1972]

Tranmission Part

Is this part of the transmission? I have oil leaking from this.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

That's right...And every transmission expert I've ever talked to...says you should NEVER EVER do a flush. Just replacing what's in the tranny every 50k miles is the BEST for the transmission. The place I use REFUSES to do flushes. He ends up rebuilding several transmissions a year who had their tranny's flushed.

Just to be clear, your expert is referring to "Flush" as running 8+ qts of fluid through the transmission by either draining and refilling or using a Fluid Exchange machine to change out the fluid naturally via the transmission fluid pump? Because that is the first time I have heard people condemning flushes done at the proper interval (this is the key phrase here, because I can see where a 150k+ tranny that has never been serviced and should be every 30-60k can fail due to a flush.)

I'm not saying he's wrong, just that its the first I have ever heard that doing a flush at the proper fluid change intervals causes the transmission to fail (we do this regularly at the dealership with WS Transmissions and have not seen a failure related to it, it is also what Toyota suggests be done as the "proper" service.)

Is this part of the transmission? I have oil leaking from this.

Those are the breathers for the front differential and transmission, they shouldn't be leaking oil. But, it could just be aerosolized oil and ATF that have migrated up the tube and over time and made it somewhat oily looking.

 

[MikeInNH]

Just to be clear, your expert is referring to "Flush" as running 8+ qts of fluid through the transmission by either draining and refilling or using a Fluid Exchange machine to change out the fluid naturally via the transmission fluid pump?

Yes that is EXACTLY what I'm saying. Now the transmissions who had flushes...he has no idea if they were don't improperly..but just that a flush was performed. And after the flush the tranny had problems and needed to be rebuilt. My wifes Accords...the owners manual said specifically NOT to flush..just drain and refill.

 

[jwyshrek]

Now I'm confused...I think we need to define the term 'flush' as it pertains to transmissions and fluids.

Here is my understanding...

Drain and fill - drain part of the total internal fluid via drain plug/drop pan and refill with same amount. OK and repeat.

Flush - replace all internal fluid using the transmission's own pump and lines. Some say OK.

then there is...

Power Flush (i.e. JiffyLube) - replace all internal fluid using an external, pressurized device. Most say NO NO.

Is this right?

 

[BOSMECH]

Yes.

 

[Hapeacres]

The dealer says they have some type of special flushing machine with a sensor? Is this a temperature sensor or a pressure sensor or both? It seems to me they would know what they are doing. I have one dealer who says to flush with their machine and another that says to leave it alone. These two dealers are both close to me. I think I may call more dealers but then again ask ten people whether or not they are dealers, and you will get ten different answers!
What kind of damage could they do with flushing? I am leaning towards just leaving it alone now but worried about old tranny oil at 166,000 miles and I want to keep it for a long time.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

The dealer says they have some type of special flushing machine with a sensor? Is this a temperature sensor or a pressure sensor or both? It seems to me they would know what they are doing. I have one dealer who says to flush with their machine and another that says to leave it alone. These two dealers are both close to me. I think I may call more dealers but then again ask ten people whether or not they are dealers, and you will get ten different answers!
What kind of damage could they do with flushing? I am leaning towards just leaving it alone now but worried about old tranny oil at 166,000 miles and I want to keep it for a long time.

We have a fluid exchange machine at the dealership, we use it for Type IV transmission fluid at the moment. Basically the Fluid Exchange machine just hooks up to the cooler lines and flushes the system by letting fluid get sucked in from the inlet line and pushed out the outlet line; there's no fluid pump in the machine, it uses the transmission's own fluid pressure when running to work. Its pretty much the same as what some guys do with buckets on the forum, they aren't very complicated machines and we're still told to check the fluid level after the flush because they aren't 100% accurate at moving the fluid.