Declining Student Resilience: A Serious Problem

[Jernik]

My jaw just about hit the floor the other day when I heard a young woman, who I will keep anonymous, say (after completing a $120k plus 4 year college degree paid for by her WW2 D-Day vet grandfather...) "I am not going to look for a full time job... you only live once and I want to spend my time with the man I love (in reference to her boyfriend and I suppose soon to be fiance)..."

:wow2:

That is the mentality many are adopting these days...

Unbelievable.

That's one of the great injustices in life... I've seen several well off kids piss away stuff just like this, while there are motivated individuals out there who would actually appreciate such an opportunity and DO something with it - but they'll never get that chance due to circumstances outside their control.

 

[marshal]

That's one of the great injustices in life... I've seen several well off kids piss away stuff just like this, while there are motivated individuals out there who would actually appreciate such an opportunity and DO something with it - but they'll never get that chance due to circumstances outside their control.

Yeah but at the same time people change, and their experiences define them. You can't tell me you wouldn't throw it all away if you had the opportunity to accomplish your life's dream?

I've worked my ass off to get to where I am today. I'm barely 25 and I've finished my enlistment, Im so close to a 6 figure promotion I can taste it, I own a beautiful house in the suburbs, married and have a 4 year old little girl.

I'd throw it all away (except the missus and my kid) to build a sea container house on a hill side overlooking the ocean in the PNW and build wooden boats and restore old motorcycles.

 

[Bigshankhank]

That's one of the great injustices in life... I've seen several well off kids piss away stuff just like this, while there are motivated individuals out there who would actually appreciate such an opportunity and DO something with it - but they'll never get that chance due to circumstances outside their control.

Shoot, its not like this latest generation invented the MRS. degree, I knew tons of girls back in college back in the 90's spending mommy and daddy's money looking for Mr. Pays-The-Bills/Gives-The-Babies.

Then you look at kids like the viral video of the 12 year old boy whose dad setup a shop and bought him a ragged out old bike, tools and know how to build an awesome custom ride. That kid is both privileged and has made the most of the opportunity that that privilege gave him. All hope is not lost.

 

[ret42]

i'm a high school lacrosse coach and this is ever evident even at the top level of varsity sports. "helicopter parents" that want to make sure everyone gets fair treatment and are always angry that their kid isn't getting the same opportunities are everywhere. its tough to tell parents that no your kid isn't special and doesnt deserve what you say they deserve. its a product of parenting more than anything IMO

This is why I would be an awful coach/teacher, I have no tact. The conversation would probably go along the lines of,
Parent: "Why aren't you playing my son? Billy's not getting near as much playtime as Johnny"
Me: "Well, Johnny comes to practice, works really hard, practices at home, gives it 100% every time he steps onto the field and is an encouragement to the rest of the team with his work ethic."
Parent: "But.."
Me: "I'm not done, BILLY on the other hand, shows up late to practice, doesn't work hard, would rather talk to the other kids, and brings down the morale of the team."
Parent: "Well Billy can't help that he's not as naturally gifted as Johnny, but he still deserves to play!"
Me: "So you're saying Billy's not naturally gifted at working hard?"
Parent: "Well, maybe Billy would work harder if he actually got to play"
Me: "Well, maybe Billy would get to play if he actually worked hard in the first place."

Enter infinite loop.

we just had a parent tell off the coach and pull her kid from the team on my sons 13 yr old basketball team because she felt they weren't playing him enough. he hardly showed up for practice, and didn't give 100 percent, and the whole team had been told you will be benched if you are not performing or following the plays etc.

Well, at least the parent pulled the kid from the team. :clap2:

I played lacrosse in highschool, and we had parents like that. The coach had it easy as the players would tell the parents the truth about their kid and if the parents tried to get him special treatment, well he got it alright :tape2:

This is how it should be.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

It's a combination of things really, but the main points I've noticed that seem to be pervasive in the majority of the US:

-Lack of Self-Responsibility (evidenced by "there's an app," "I have AAA why do I need to know how to change a tire or check oil?" "It's not my fault, I can sue them!" )

-Far too Politically Correct (evidenced by... well pretty much just look around, you can't say anything without most hipster 20-somes getting offended by it. I'm not saying we need to run around shouting Confederate anthems, but this over PC attitude is part of why Racism in this country never died, it just got white-washed in PC BS.)

-Lack of good work ethic (Again, most kids these days think they'll invent an App and make millions, most don't want to get their hands dirty or do hard labour; hence why this country is going to have an issue in the Industrial Technologies area when all the baby boomers finally die off/retire eventually)

-Things are more expensive, difficult, and/or ridiculous than before (I live in the Bay Area, the living cost in high density urban areas is so ridiculous these days you can't survive in the city very well. Most people live out of the Bay Area and commute in because of the high living costs, this is not endemic to the Bay Area, but many other major cities. This descepency in living costs strains many young adults and they end up living with their parents, in fact I being one of them do live with my parents for this reason.) [I have no debt, the 4Runner is paid off, my Tools are paid off, and yet it is financially a poor decision for me to live on my own in the Bay Area right now because my income is slightly above the poverty line in California; yet in the rest of the US I'd be a "Blue Collar Middle Class" with no issues. One of the reasons I am considering abandoning California for Oregon.]

-Lack of Critical Thinking Skills (A lot of kids these days seem to lack the critical problem solving skills many of us grew up with and/or developed to tackle unique problems. While there are very brilliant young men and women out there, they can't seem to apply their intelligence flexibly. I have met plenty of young engineers and physics majors that can't piece together how to change a tire despite their respective fields teaching them the primary forces and mechanics involved in doing so. This might be due to parents coddling, providing, being over protective, reducing hardships, and/or other possible conditions. I'm not saying the parents are in the wrong, but rather these days there IS an App for everything and/or many things are easily solved through 3rd party means, this probably strips away opportunities for young adults to learn critical thinking and problem solving skills that they can adapt later in life.)

-America as a whole has become lazy and obsessed with "easy living" more than "The American Dream."

These are things I noticed over the years as both a legal immigrant from a ex-communist country and citizen of the US. But also as someone who started off rather on the low end of the spectrum and worked their way up.

 

[marshal]

These are things I noticed over the years as both a legal immigrant from a ex-communist country and citizen of the US. But also as someone who started off rather on the low end of the spectrum and worked their way up.

Comrade!!!

 

[nevada]

this is all completely by design.
it makes for more pliable voters.

 

[BrianSD_42]

[MENTION=98419]ben550[/MENTION]

I think you would like this article.
How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus - The Atlantic

It addresses how culture is a big part of the problem.

I also think a lot of the problem can be attributed to the "every kid is a winner" attitude that most parents have. THE IRONY is that it all comes back to bite the parents in the ass when the kid has to move back in at 22 after college for the next 4 years until they figure their life out.

* Raise your kid to take care of himself/herself. As in don't tie their shoe for them once they know how to do it. PERIOD.

* Kids should have a financial stake in college. Only offer to pay for part of it and let them know that they can't move back in after college. That they will HAVE TO get a job, even if it is a gas station after college so they better choose their major wisely.


Also see
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-not-funny/399335/

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SA1bsM2rZVU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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On a side note ... who here has seen "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" ? This is a documentary about Sushi (sure) but mainly it is about LIFE ATTITUDE and WORK ETHIC.

This is most exemplified when Jiro recalls telling his 30 year old son (and Sushi student) who after 10 years was leaving to start his own restaurant "You can never come back here to work". Work your hardest at the new business because you are on your own now, the door back is closed. Don't let the family down. It is on Netflix and I highly recommend it.

Jiro Dreams of Sushi (2012) | 99% RT Score
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jiro_dreams_of_sushi/

 

[Jernik]

Yeah, the throwing away opportunity thing is not new. In fact, watching kids (some of them friends of mine at the time) with resources being irresponsible/wasting opportunity while me and the (now wife) worked 30+ hours a week while taking classes and building student loan debt to earn it ourselves kinda kicked off my irritation with this early on in my life. I know there are many who would think the opportunities I've had are great compared to what's available to them. I have tried to make the most out of what I've been dealt.

The flip side is I've known some kids with very wealthy parents who were quite humble, knew they had a leg up, and wisely used their position to better themselves. I'm not envious because people had/have it better than me - I'd use that leverage to my advantage too. My problem is seeing it ignorantly wasted by fools.

 

[02SE]

I'm abstaining from this discussion but did get a kick out of a few of these.

Those were clearly made by someone that doesn't realize that life HAS NEVER BEEN EASY.

Probably someone that is a product of what this thread is about. Kiddies that are never taught to try, because they are told they are super-extra-special no matter what they do.

Then they get older and realize the harsh reality that they have to get off their ass and actually DO something.

 

[wadle5]

On a side note ... who here has seen "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" ? This is a documentary about Sushi (sure) but mainly it is about LIFE ATTITUDE and WORK ETHIC. Another way of putting it is you better work your hardest at your own business because you are on your own. We will not coddle you or take you back (except for family events etc). It is on Netflix and I highly recommend it.

I came across this awhile ago, and figured I enjoy sushi why not learn about one of the masters of this simple yet sophisticated thing. It blew my mind about his mindset of what others would just deem a J-O-B.

While I agree with most here and the conflict/responsibility of parents rearing children. I do think the difficulty for some that comes into play is the PC police. A parent COULD discipline their child properly, but someone on the outside of the family could deem that as abusive or NOT politically correct.(NOT approving of abuse, so dont read in to that. Just promoting youths of thick skin so they can deal with the real world.)

I would finally refute and although some may not want to admit it, but this mindset is due to the education system as well in this country and the individuals who are "moulding minds" and spending time with kids more than their own parents at time.
-micro managing
-government determining what is best for you
-everyone should get a participation award
-the successful individual is truly not thanked for what they have produced, while the individual who does minimal work is praised.

You can argue all you want, but a majority of the issue with children starts with school(AND PARENTS), but when the school rulings begin to trump parents thats where the issues occur. The unionization of the teachers and such mindsets of the liberal education they have grown up in and were educated at have pushed this liberal mindset and lifestyle, that it is difficult for a young adult/child to see what is wrong, when a very praised individual(teacher/principal) tells them what is right and wrong, and what the "norm" and "majority" are doing. Making sure everyone gets "their fair share" whatever that means. It reminds me of the phrase:

"Just because it is popular doesn't mean it is right. And just because it is right doesn't mean its popular."

another phrase I always heard growing up in my family was
"Life is not fair, but its not fair for anyone, thus fair"-This is a tough one to swallow and moreso to chew on when growing up and certainly moreso growing up under the parents who are professionals in the mental health and medical field, which I later pursued myself. What I can take away from this now in laymens terms and in being in the real world and experiencing this first hand is instead of ***** footing around some people do need a reality check.

So while I agree there is input from parents that is necessary I would also say it is difficult to raise the child accordingly to what most would deem normal standards, when the "standardization"of schooling has severely declined and pretty much shut the parent out of assisting/informing with the schooling of their own child.

My random sporadic 2 cents on the matter while at work and in brief.
:flypig:

 

[nevada]

yes, parents also take some of the blame. but lets not forget, the teachers, and those making these rules are likely parents themselves.
its not like someone that has never had kids is doing this, these ARE parents coming up with the BS.

while not exactly what this thread is about, we recently got introduced to the "common core math" that im sure most of you have at least heard about.

coming from THE teacher, this is a horrible thing. fully intended to brain wash the kids into only following orders, and doing whats in front of them. they are being trained to NOT ask "why", or look beyond what is directly what they are given or asked.
as parents, we are not supposed to understand it. and to prevent this understanding, they change how its done every 5 years.

in the same vein is the entire nations new "anti-bullying" policy. this is in no way actually designed to stop bullying. its purpose is to train the kids to be watchdogs, and to "tattle" at the first sign of someone doing something wrong. they want them to be turning in their neighbors for not paying their taxes, or any other thing that is deemed unacceptable by the gov.
unfortunately, this policy is actually leading to more, and worse bullying, and creating an entire generation(s) of the population that is unwilling, and incapable of defending themselves. and that are fully reliant on their government to survive.

 

[wadle5]

yes, parents also take some of the blame. but lets not forget, the teachers, and those making these rules are likely parents themselves.
while not exactly what this thread is about, we recently got introduced to the "common core math" that im sure most of you have at least heard about.

While I do agree with most of your response I would actually disagree that a majority of teachers now at least around my area are in fact young adults not married or without children at all. And this is coming from several local schools, friends that are teachers etc etc as the older generation begins to exit that profession. They have no concept of child rearing and refer to school as just WORK. And can't wait for summer to get rid of the kids. And while I by no means mean to undermine the profession of teaching. I do think at times a majority of the new individuals going into this field truly aren't like those of past time when I went to school. Caring parents, that even though their job was teaching they also treated every child as their own and disciplined them as well when necessary.

In regards to common core.............that in itself is a whole other massacre of the education system and common sense.

 

[ben550]

[MENTION=65101]BrianSD_42[/MENTION]

That is a great article. Thanks for the link. I forwarded the link to several friends...

Universities "have taken a further step toward intellectual homogeneity and the creation of an environment in which students rarely encounter diverse viewpoints..."

Universities and the academic world have become so "tolerant" and "diversity oriented" that they have now become far less diverse due to the fact that alternative or conflicting viewpoints with the leftist/academic view are not tolerated...

Big problem.

 

[nevada]

While I do agree with most of your response I would actually disagree that a majority of teachers now at least around my area are in fact young adults not married or without children at all. And this is coming from several local schools, friends that are teachers etc etc as the older generation begins to exit that profession. They have no concept of child rearing and refer to school as just WORK. And can't wait for summer to get rid of the kids. And while I by no means mean to undermine the profession of teaching. I do think at times a majority of the new individuals going into this field truly aren't like those of past time when I went to school. Caring parents, that even though their job was teaching they also treated every child as their own and disciplined them as well when necessary.

In regards to common core.............that in itself is a whole other massacre of the education system and common sense.

yes, absolutely I agree. in which case, we refer higher up the chain, to the governing bodies responsible for these laws/rules.

I feel as though the common core, and anti-bullying situation is all part of the same problem. its all by design, and that is part of it...

 

[BrianSD_42]

While not exactly what this thread is about, we recently got introduced to the "common core math" that im sure most of you have at least heard about.

coming from THE teacher, this is a horrible thing. fully intended to brain wash the kids into only following orders, and doing whats in front of them. they are being trained to NOT ask "why", or look beyond what is directly what they are given or asked.

I'll go ahead and disagree slightly.

There are TWO parts to common core.

One is the curriculum which from everything I've read is approved by both conservatives and not.

The new curriculum actually forces kids to think more and is greatly skewed towards critical thinking.

The second part is the testing system. These new tests have been criticized from all over the political spectrum, basically pissing everyone off.

I am greatly in favor of the new common core curriculum. Americas schools need more standardisation, not less.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Universities and the academic world have become so "tolerant" and "diversity oriented" that they have now become far less diverse due to the fact that alternative or conflicting viewpoints with the leftist/academic view are not tolerated.

I think everyone should have a right to absolute free speech on campus.

From abortion, to slavery, Sharia law, to Zionism, to blasphemy, to affirmative action, to being for or against fascism. All are fair game.

The pro, cons or why yes vs no should always be protected speech on campus.

 

[nevada]

I'll go ahead and disagree slightly.

There are TWO parts to common core.

One is the curriculum which from everything I've read is approved by both conservatives and not.

The new curriculum actually forces kids to think more and is greatly skewed towards critical thinking.

The second part is the testing system. These new tests have been criticized from all over the political spectrum, basically pissing everyone off.

I am greatly in favor of the new common core curriculum. Americas schools need more standardisation, not less.

what I said above was told to me by the teacher. she used the word indoctrinated a few times in her explanation..
this is a problem with me, and should be for everyone.

do you have any actual experience with it? its NOT standardized. its ridiculous, and is changed every 5 years. no, its not making them THINK more, its doing the exact opposite. its making them NON thinking robots.

 

[jwkilgore]

while not exactly what this thread is about, we recently got introduced to the "common core math" that im sure most of you have at least heard about.

coming from THE teacher, this is a horrible thing. fully intended to brain wash the kids into only following orders, and doing whats in front of them. they are being trained to NOT ask "why", or look beyond what is directly what they are given or asked.
as parents, we are not supposed to understand it. and to prevent this understanding, they change how its done every 5 years.

You're wrong about common core math. It's brilliant. The old way just taught basic steps and algorithms without teaching the purpose of each step in the algorithm.

It would be like teaching someone how to diagnose and "repair" a vehicle by following step-by-step instructions without any understanding of what each step is for and what each separate component does. Or teaching martial arts by rote memorization of dance moves without explaining the concepts of force, leverage, and momentum (aka, your typical McDojo). :boxing: Or teaching someone to cook by only following recipes without teaching the chemistry of cooking. :hungry:

Why do you "borrow" when subtracting? Because the teacher told you to? Or do you understand the concept? All those ridiculous graphics being passed around on social media are idiotic. The multi-step processes they are comparing to a finished "old way" process is like comparing a video of football training camp drills (ladders, blocking cages, tire swings targets) with a touchdown pass. The better you learn the steps, the better you can do the complete process. Yes, they DO still teach the old algorithms, but they teach the steps first.

When the "new" common core math came out we asked the school how it would affect our kids... they said it wouldn't affect them at all because it's the way they've been teaching for years. My kid's school is consistently ranked in the top 5% of all public schools in the state. It's probably higher, but they only go to the top 5%. :first:

 

[BrianSD_42]

Don't rely on what your kids teacher said. Read some articles about it. You don't seem to have the facts right.

Common core has not been changed every five years.

It is just now being rolled out for the first time ever.

All schools which receive federal funding are required to comply in certain ways.