Don't be afraid to go to the " E " side.

[lunarsnowstorm]

To make a long story short, I was wheeling, went through a puddle and managed to hit the only rock within a thousand yards. Punctured the side wall. I decided to go with the Copper AT3 LT285-70-17. After driving on them for the last month and a half, I have to say this is one of the best things I have done for my ride. Love the way it handles and feels. Totally different vehicle. Of course you have to change your driving habits ( one jug handle at regular speed will cure you of that ), I"m running a 3\2 Toytec ultimate lift. I think that is one reason the ride doesn't feel that much stiffer. Running the air pressure at 42. It will knock your MPG by a couple but for me it is worth the loss. Added bonus, the ole lady's boobies jiggle just a little bit more on those long rides. That's my 2 cents worth.

 

[gm350reratliff]

To make a long story short, I was wheeling, went through a puddle and managed to hit the only rock within a thousand yards. Punctured the side wall. I decided to go with the Copper AT3 LT285-70-17. After driving on them for the last month and a half, I have to say this is one of the best things I have done for my ride. Love the way it handles and feels. Totally different vehicle. Of course you have to change your driving habits ( one jug handle at regular speed will cure you of that ), I"m running a 3\2 Toytec ultimate lift. I think that is one reason the ride doesn't feel that much stiffer. Running the air pressure at 42. It will knock your MPG by a couple but for me it is worth the loss. Added bonus, the ole lady's boobies jiggle just a little bit more on those long rides. That's my 2 cents worth.

I have to admit, that sold me right there!


Pics or it didn't happen. :girl:

:worthless





:jk:

 

[RDFISHGUY]

I have to admit, that sold me right there!


Pics or it didn't happen. :girl:

:worthless





:jk:

X2. Fools seldom differ.

 

[<<<<]

285/70/17 TG and No Lift is even better.

 

[Randyman...]

I had an opposite reaction to E load range tires compared to otherwise identical C load range tires. To be clear - I'm not a hard core off-roader, but like to know my tires will get me through most anything I'd personally encounter.

I recently purchased my second set of BFG All Terrains for my 5th Gen. Stock LT265/70R17 size.

I previously had the "C" load range on, and ordered an identical set of C load range replacements. When the Tire shop slapped them on, I didn't closely inspect them, but the invoice clearly stated the "C Load Range" version I specifically ordered.

I noticed my acceleration seemed a bit more sluggish, and when driving fast (80MPH on unimpeded outer-city-limits freeways on my long drive to work), I swear I could feel the tires' rotational inertia when changing lanes and crap (like moving a spinning top in your hand). Something felt different than it had before, and I didn't like it.

Upon closer inspection, the Tire Shop installed the "E" load range BFG's of the same size.

I just KNEW something was "off" - I could distinctly observe it without knowing for sure. In the BFG KO's, the weight difference from C to E was close to 9lbs a tire - or close to 36lbs of additional un-sprung weight for the set of four (and most of that 36lbs of mass is on the outer circumference where this weight results in significant centrifugal force and associated inertia at highway speeds).

Even though I got the "benefit" of the mistake (the "E"'s cost more), I still had the tire shop swap on the "C Load Range" I specifically ordered (no charge). Handling/Acceleration/MPG popped right back to where I remembered it was with my old set of KO C's.

That's my "Do be afraid to go to the E side" story if you don't have a specific need or desire for heavy-ass tires. If you are a hard core crawler or serious off-roader, then E's are a logical choice for your off-roading prowess. If you stick to moderate trails and crap like that, C's are a far better choice for all-around drive-ability and MPG IMNSHO.

As you were

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I recently installed BFG all terrain KO2 275/70/17 load range E tires on my 14 Limited to replace the stock 20s for off road use. Around town and lower speeds I can not tell a difference and I thought it felt about the same up to around 55-60 mph mildly hilly terrain. Once I got above about 65 in hilly terrain I could feet the weight difference. It just seemed a little more sluggish and not as responsive at higher speed. I had them at 36 psi. I aired them down to 25 off road and it really smoothed the ride out. If you are not willing to air down off road in any kind of rocky terrain they will rattle your teeth out. I could not even imagine trying them off road at 42 psi. I just reinstalled my 20s getting ready for a long highway trip. Going back to the stock tire and wheel is smoother and a little quieter but not by a lot. A 20" tire will never ride as smooth as a stock 17" tire. I never had the all terrains on long enough to check gas mileage but I am sure it was 1-2 mpg lower. If a load range C tire was available in the tire I wanted it would have been more than sufficient for my needs. I had load range C BFG tires on my old 4runner and they were fine. Load range E is overkill for 4runners except in extreme conditions.

 

[skimr]

Someone's overkill is someone else's comfort zone. I've been running E rated tires for over 20 years and if given the choice will always choose them (currently have D rated as they were on the truck when I bought it). Not a hard core off-roader or wheeler, but forest service gravel roads and public land dirt roads with lava rock "eat" tires. E rated are the only ones which consistently hold up. Will admit I'm not driving 80 miles an hour or that interested in gas mileage. I run mine at 35 psi with no issues, don't consider ride to harsh or rough. Still running stock suspension with spacers up front. Handles and rides great.

 

[Randyman...]

Yep - Do what works for you and your truck IMO. I didn't think I'd be able to notice a load range difference from the same model tire, but I obviously did (without even knowing that was the actual "issue"!). E's are not for me, but sound perfect for you

I'd wager over the 60K Mile life of BFG tires, even a 1MPG variation (from 17MPG to 18MPG) would mean an extra 196 gallons of gas if my math is correct (not counting on it ). Assume cheap $3/Gallon gas, and that quickly adds up to almost $600. MPG was only one of my rationale for having the E's swapped back out for the C's I specifically ordered (and not an issue I noticed with the mix-up at the Tire Shop - handling alone tipped me off something was 'wrong', but my choosing C load in the first place was partially due to MPG concerns).

I'm sure P-Metrics would be more than sufficient for my off-road needs, but I'll admit I'm a sucker for the look and proven performance BFG All Terrain KO's (my 6th or 7th full set now!) I know I'm over-paying for tires that are beyond what I need and I'm also over-paying for gas/MPG - but the KO look alone is worth it for my T4R C's are as far as I'm willing to "compromise" :music: ...

 

[JB.]

All Es aren't created equal.

The ones I run are 46lbs each, which is a large part of the reason they are the ones I run.

 

[marshal]

like said above, all E's are not created equal. tire construction differs. the Toyo Open Country MT 35x12.50R17's in E are over 100lbs a tire, while the same tire in the Goodyear MT/R Kevlar is in the high 60s. i know thats not the best way to show the weight difference since most of you ninny's don't run large tires.

i run E rated 285x75x17 Nitto Terra Grapplers and it too was also one of the best mod's I've done to my truck so far. the stock C-rated stuff is junk IMO. my next set of tires will be 35" E rated as well

 

[Randyman...]

All I can say from 1st hand experience (basically a "Blind Test" due to the mix-up at the tire shop) is that I absolutely detected the handling difference from C to E in the same model tire (KO) - and this was only a 8.2lb difference per tire! (double checked: 265/70/17/C KO = 45.2lbs; 265/70/17/E KO = 53.4lbs). So that's only a total of 32lbs difference for the set of 4 (I initially stated close to 36lbs).

It literally felt like my steering movements were amplified around 70-80MPH and I really didn't like it (additional inertia of this extra mass spinning from the 17"-31" diameter @ 70-80MPH). Changing lanes seemed overly-touchy at these speeds, and was immediately noticeable. Acceleration also seemed a bit more sluggish (actually noticed that as soon as I drove out of the Tire Shop!), and while I didn't scrutinize my MPG for the week I had the incorrect E's on, I know it went down some.

LT KO C's are plenty sufficient for moderate trailing IMO. I'm not a crawler and don't air-down much at all, so my first-hand observed drawbacks of the KO E's made it clear KO C's are a better fit for my truck and the way I use it...

Feel free to slap on 100lb tires and tear up the trails if that's your thing! You can see the rear of my T4R as I accelerate away from you at the light You aren't raining on my C-Load parade in the least I'll take your "ninny" label on every 110 mile round-trip excursion to work .

Like mentioned - Chose the tire that makes the most sense for you and your personal preferences and tolerance for compromise. KO E's were just too much of a compromise for how I use my truck.

I'm willing to compromise (over-spec/over-spend) to the KO LT C's and take the MPG hit, but I like the KO's handling MUCH better than the stock P-Metric Dunlops I traded in after a few thousand miles (handling improvement is worth the extra cost of the KO's and minor MPG hit - but this is a personal debate only the person spending cash will be able to make - not an absolute by any means).

I'm simply reporting my real-world "Quasi Blind Test" experience as I felt it was appropriate to this thread. I doubt many others have had such a chance for a true "Blind" test like this (due to the mix-up at the Tire Shop).

 

[JB.]

I'm simply reporting my real-world "Quasi Blind Test" experience as I felt it was appropriate to this thread. I doubt many others have had such a chance for a true "Blind" test like this (due to the mix-up at the Tire Shop).

I'm glad you made the point again because, you're right, it was a pretty rare circumstance that created a quasi-blind, mostly apples-to-apples test in a narrow slice of time that doesn't come along very often, and I'm not sure I fully appreciated that in your first post.

 

[Jhalko]

I had a similar lucky/unlucky opportunity, I ordered a set of C range LT and they put P metric tires on. Didn't notice until I drove it home, thought I might have made a mistake going from the stock 20's down to 17's. The p metric felt so soft, than I realized the mistake, drive back and they swapped out to the C load. The ride on my C load LT is very comparable to what I had with stock LE setup. I think for most, an E range would be a dramatic change, some would like it and many would hate it.

But clearly there are benefits as the OP has pointed out they aren't always about the ride or handling! I mean given what my lady has I'm thinking about buying some E load this week!!!!

 

[marshal]

All I can say from 1st hand experience (basically a "Blind Test" due to the mix-up at the tire shop) is that I absolutely detected the handling difference from C to E in the same model tire (KO) - and this was only a 8.2lb difference per tire! (double checked: 265/70/17/C KO = 45.2lbs; 265/70/17/E KO = 53.4lbs). So that's only a total of 32lbs difference for the set of 4 (I initially stated close to 36lbs).

It literally felt like my steering movements were amplified around 70-80MPH and I really didn't like it (additional inertia of this extra mass spinning from the 17"-31" diameter @ 70-80MPH). Changing lanes seemed overly-touchy at these speeds, and was immediately noticeable. Acceleration also seemed a bit more sluggish (actually noticed that as soon as I drove out of the Tire Shop!), and while I didn't scrutinize my MPG for the week I had the incorrect E's on, I know it went down some.

LT KO C's are plenty sufficient for moderate trailing IMO. I'm not a crawler and don't air-down much at all, so my first-hand observed drawbacks of the KO E's made it clear KO C's are a better fit for my truck and the way I use it...

Feel free to slap on 100lb tires and tear up the trails if that's your thing! You can see the rear of my T4R as I accelerate away from you at the light You aren't raining on my C-Load parade in the least I'll take your "ninny" label on every 110 mile round-trip excursion to work .

Like mentioned - Chose the tire that makes the most sense for you and your personal preferences and tolerance for compromise. KO E's were just too much of a compromise for how I use my truck.

I'm willing to compromise (over-spec/over-spend) to the KO LT C's and take the MPG hit, but I like the KO's handling MUCH better than the stock P-Metric Dunlops I traded in after a few thousand miles (handling improvement is worth the extra cost of the KO's and minor MPG hit - but this is a personal debate only the person spending cash will be able to make - not an absolute by any means).

I'm simply reporting my real-world "Quasi Blind Test" experience as I felt it was appropriate to this thread. I doubt many others have had such a chance for a true "Blind" test like this (due to the mix-up at the Tire Shop).

and thats all fine and dandy, i also happen to think that the BFG AT is one of the worst tires made right now. thats personal opinion based on experience. and i don't intend on running a 100lb tire, i was using it as an example. and i couldn't really care if you accelerate faster than me off the line because thats not what our trucks are made for. Ive set mine up to enhance its offroad prowess vs you, setting yours up for whatever it is that you do with 4000 and some watts of deafening speakers.

with my 285x75's (34x11.50) i can still manage 17-18mpg corrected in my daily 90 mile round trip. I'm satisfied with that, and i'll be satisfied when i go to 35" Trail Grapplers on my next set of tires and my MPG drops 1 across the board.

so yes, to each their own - but the variance in weight between the carcasses of different tires in different load ratings is excessive.

so the 285/75R17 BFGoodrich KO in E rating is 62.3lbs
the 285/75R17 Nitto Terra Grappler in E rating is 55.62LBS

you cannot equally hate on all E rated tires. thats fine that you don't like them. i don't care, enjoy your C-rated tires. Intact I'm happy that you enjoy them.

 

[Randyman...]

you cannot equally hate on all E rated tires. thats fine that you don't like them. i don't care, enjoy your C-rated tires. Intact I'm happy that you enjoy them.

No "Hate" here! If I was a hard-core crawler and liked to hit aggressive trails or had experienced previous issues or sidewall punctures with my previous 6-7 sets of BFG All-Terrain C-Loads, I'm sure I'd go with E's as well. Makes sense to me. I've never had a complaint about C-Load All-Terrains over 6-7 full sets now / more than 300K Miles (probably closer to 400K) across 3 Toyotas - haven't popped one on sharp rocks as of yet. The only tire I've ever had sidewall issues with was an old POS P-Metric on my old '87 T4R. Once I moved to BFG KO's - never an issue.

Just passing along my first-hand (and basically "blind" scenario) observations and noting that the C-Load version of KO was a far superior option over the E-Load KO for MY T4R and how I use it (not speaking about your T4R and how you use it).

Are there other brands of tires? Of course! My reporting is clearly based off apples-to-apples of KO-C to KO-E and my distinct ability to observe a clear change in handling and acceleration with a measly 8.2lbs of difference per tire. I would not personally see the need to use any E Load on my T4R for my use-case. I'd always opt for a lighter C-Load variant of the same tire to save hundreds of dollars of gas over the life of the tires. My needs and desires from a tire are different from yours - just as yours are different from mine.

I'd LOVE to get a set of 275's, but BFG only offers them in E. So I pass, stick with stock 265's and maintain descent MPG and tires that still cover anything I'd ask them to do (while still getting 60K highway miles per set)....

Not everyone should go out and buy E load tires "just because" IMO. You should likely know that you really need E load tires if you are planning on using them (and the associated benefits AND drawbacks for any use-case).

Tire research should be done before a dollar is dropped. Only the owner of the vehicle (and the person spending their own hard-earned cash) can decide what's best for their own scenarios and desired results and willingness to compromise (not the least of which can be MPG concerns for SOME T4R owners - obviously not including you in that statement).

Fringe Benefits mentioned by the OP can be nice - but I have other ways of making things jiggle, and tire choices are not involved ...

As you were :cheers:

 

[mook21]

A thought on heavier off road driving...

I posted a few weeks ago about my experience going to an E rated tire, Cooper ATP 285/70/17. It killed my mileage and rode very roughly. That being said, I do like some difficult trails 3-4x per year. weighing options, I believe the best thing for me is to go with the smooth riding, 19-20 MPG 285/70/17 Cooper AT3's which are very quiet on the road and when I go back to some harder off road driving, Get a set of steelies with a used set of MT tires. That way if I scar up the wheels, or chip the treads on the tires it is ok. The only time I have to put up with the road roar is driving to and from the trails. I had this set up before and loved it, kicking myself for selling my steelies and MT's when I lost my mind and decided I would buy an old, beat up Jeep YJ (yes, I am an idiot, sold that piece of crap after 1 year of frustration!!!). Just wanted to throw out another option.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I posted a few weeks ago about my experience going to an E rated tire, Cooper ATP 285/70/17. It killed my mileage and rode very roughly. That being said, I do like some difficult trails 3-4x per year. weighing options, I believe the best thing for me is to go with the smooth riding, 19-20 MPG 285/70/17 Cooper AT3's which are very quiet on the road and when I go back to some harder off road driving, Get a set of steelies with a used set of MT tires. That way if I scar up the wheels, or chip the treads on the tires it is ok. The only time I have to put up with the road roar is driving to and from the trails. I had this set up before and loved it, kicking myself for selling my steelies and MT's when I lost my mind and decided I would buy an old, beat up Jeep YJ (yes, I am an idiot, sold that piece of crap after 1 year of frustration!!!). Just wanted to throw out another option.

That is what I am doing. I bought a set of take off 4runner wheels from my Toyota dealer for $200. They had some damage on some of them from the tire machine but I did not care because they are my off road wheels and will get damaged anyways. I put my BFG KO2 load range E tires on them. I took them off road last week and they work great. The wheels on my 03 I traded in looked like crap from off road stone chips and rock dings. A lot of people here do not like the stock 20" wheels on my limited but I like them and like the way they drive on pavement. I have the 20's on now preparing for a long road trip and can enjoy the quietness and better gas mileage they deliver. The wheels will also stay new looking because they will not be out in the desert much. When I get back I will probably leave the 17" wheels on a while since it is off road season here now.

 

[Randyman...]

Perfect solution IMO - Dynamically appropriate tires based off specific scenario at hand. Win-win when you want to hit the tougher trails w/o compromising the majority of your driving (on pavement).

The cash savings in gas (MPG) likely pays for the steelies and MT tires after a while!

Do what works for you and your specific use-case, and you are likely to be happy in the end. That was kind of my point about my counter-point E's make prefect sense for plenty of T4R owners - I'm simply not one of them (and believe it or not, there are others like me).