Dual TrueTracs + ATrac?

[Lindenwood]

Has anyone used this combo? I am pretty sold on the idea for my DD / Expo rig build. I understand it is not a locker, but for the most part I don't plan on doing a lot of wheel lifting. Still, on the occasion I do get crossed up, I would indeed expect the ATrac and Truetracs to work well together.

Thanks!

 

[HiluxSurf SSR-G]

the 1996-2002 4Runner doesn't have A-Trac although the 2001-2002 had VSC/Trac.

 

[SupaSupra]

the 1996-2002 4Runner doesn't have A-Trac although the 2001-2002 had VSC/Trac.

And holy hell the VSC/Trac is garbage.

 

[JayRolla]

Has anyone used this combo? I am pretty sold on the idea for my DD / Expo rig build. I understand it is not a locker, but for the most part I don't plan on doing a lot of wheel lifting. Still, on the occasion I do get crossed up, I would indeed expect the ATrac and Truetracs to work well together.

Thanks!

Most people do a wire mod to disable the trac. My brothers 4th gen has his disabled on the trail 99% of the time. Its only one during road ice/snow conditions and then he still turns it off so he can actually have control of the throttle.

 

[Lindenwood]

the 1996-2002 4Runner doesn't have A-Trac although the 2001-2002 had VSC/Trac.

Are you saying the Trac system will always cut engine power in addition to independent braking?

 

[JZiggy]

My personal experience with dual TrueTracs (1st gen 4Runner, no control systems obviously) was outstanding in anything but high camber / wheel lifting situations.

 

[Lindenwood]

Just read the manual. It also reads as if the VSC is the only system that actively cuts engine power, which can be disengaged by locking the center diff.

It also specifically uses the name "Active Traction Control."

 

[Sean K.]

My personal experience with dual TrueTracs (1st gen 4Runner, no control systems obviously) was outstanding in anything but high camber / wheel lifting situations.

To offer a counter view point.....not a single person I know that has used a TrueTrac liked them after using them any length of time....and I sold quite a few of them (against my recommendation). As you said, they are not lockers....and they aren't particularly good LSDs either.

 

[turbo8]

I like my truetrack, on and off-road. Open diff on the street sucked when supercharged.

 

[JZiggy]

To offer a counter view point.....not a single person I know that has used a TrueTrac liked them after using them any length of time....and I sold quite a few of them (against my recommendation). As you said, they are not lockers....and they aren't particularly good LSDs either.

Interesting feedback. I had always thought they were pretty aggressive as far as LSDs go (high torque bias)... though this can be reduced if you accidentally use friction modified gear oil in it.

I've not had the opportunity to poll many other folks who have used them so I'm glad you have a wider perspective on it to share.

 

[Lindenwood]

And holy hell the VSC/Trac is garbage.

Why?

 

[Lindenwood]

the 1996-2002 4Runner doesn't have A-Trac although the 2001-2002 had VSC/Trac.

BTW, I don't actually think you are correct. This is pasted directly from the manual:

Traction control system (two–wheel drive models)
The traction control system automatical- ly helps prevent the spinning of rear wheels when the vehicle is started or accelerated on slippery road surfaces.
...
If your wheels get stuck in an ditch when you are driving on a severe off road and sand, turn off the traction control system. This system that con- trols engine performance interferes with the process of freeing the wheels.

Active traction control system (four–wheel drive models)

The active traction control system auto- matically helps prevent the spinning of 4 wheels (four–wheel drive mode) or rear wheels (two–wheel drive mode) when the vehicle is started or acceler- ated on slippery road surfaces.

Vehicle skid control system (four–wheel drive models)
The vehicle skid control system helps provide integrated control of the sys- tems such as anti–lock brakes, traction control, engine control, etc. This sys- tem automatically controls the output of the brakes or engine to help prevent the vehicle from skidding when corner- ing on a slippery road surface or oper- ating steering wheel abruptly.
...
If your wheels get stuck in a ditch or when you are driving on severe off road and sand, turn off the vehicle skid control system. This system that con- trols engine performance interferes with the process of freeing your wheels.
To turn off: Push the center differential lock switch.

Clearly, 2002 4WD 4Runners have "Active" Trac, and that is also not the system that reduces engine power.

Can you clarify? Or add something else more helpful than simply an unnecessary (and incorrect?) jab at what is, relative to my original post, an entirely inconsequential difference in terminology?

Also, despite this thread having gone completely off the rails, I am still interested in anyone who has experienced a Truetrac paired with the 3rd gen ATrac system, or who can at least clearly articulate why it wouldn't work as well as I am expecting.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

I run Truetracs front and rear in my '96 (with multi mode 4x4, as the Japanese got that back then)

Perfect for me, I was recovering a stuck van up a muddy incline a week or two back and all 4 wheels span "as if locked". if you do find yourself lifting wheel, a slight dab of brake will still see you at much more of an advantage over an open diff, I don't go up rocky trails like that so its not an issue for me (never seen one in the uk lol)

The killer advantages of a Truetrac for me were, its ALWAYS beneficial, I had traction issues with my V8 pulling out of side roads, it helps hugely, it helps in any low grip situation, and its "always there" the transition is pretty seemless. For me that was much better than a true locker that would be better 1% of the time, and offer no benefit at all, all other times. it's also quiet smooth, and daily driveable. - nice if you are covering big miles.

 

[HiluxSurf SSR-G]

on the 2001-2002 4Runner, Toyota calls it VSC/Trac, not A-Trac. It is my opinion that it was not meant to be an offroad traction aid. It was meant to provide traction on slippery road surfaces.

the traction system on the FJC and 2010 and later 4Runner (not sure if the 2003-2009 4Runner has it), Toyota calls it A-TRAC and it was meant to be a traction aid for both onroad and offroad use.

BTW, I don't actually think you are correct. This is pasted directly from the manual:






Clearly, 2002 4WD 4Runners have "Active" Trac, and that is also not the system that reduces engine power.

Can you clarify? Or add something else more helpful than simply an unnecessary (and incorrect?) jab at what is, relative to my original post, an entirely inconsequential difference in terminology?

Also, despite this thread having gone completely off the rails, I am still interested in anyone who has experienced a Truetrac paired with the 3rd gen ATrac system, or who can at least clearly articulate why it wouldn't work as well as I am expecting.

 

[Lindenwood]

on the 2001-2002 4Runner, Toyota calls it VSC/Trac, not A-Trac. It is my opinion that it was not meant to be an offroad traction aid. It was meant to provide traction on slippery road surfaces.

the traction system on the FJC and 2010 and later 4Runner (not sure if the 2003-2009 4Runner has it), Toyota calls it A-TRAC and it was meant to be a traction aid for both onroad and offroad use.

Hrmm. The manual seems to show a pretty clear functional deliniation between "Traction Control" and "Active Traction Control." It does not have a specific "Atrac" button like the FJ and 5th gens, but the manual describes the same basic functionality as the feature we call "ATrac."

Are you using the different monikers to describe a relative lack of effectiveness of the 3rd gen traction control system? I have read that it is not as aggressive as the late models in limiting wheelspin, but there is little more than anecdote searching around the web. Could you speak more specifically to why it is not particularly effective?

I do also have a 5th Gen TRDP. I'll do some testing on the 3rd gen when I get home in a couple weeks and compare it to the 5th gen's effectiveness and sensitivity.

 

[Lindenwood]

I run Truetracs front and rear in my '96 (with multi mode 4x4, as the Japanese got that back then)

Perfect for me, I was recovering a stuck van up a muddy incline a week or two back and all 4 wheels span "as if locked". if you do find yourself lifting wheel, a slight dab of brake will still see you at much more of an advantage over an open diff, I don't go up rocky trails like that so its not an issue for me (never seen one in the uk lol)

The killer advantages of a Truetrac for me were, its ALWAYS beneficial, I had traction issues with my V8 pulling out of side roads, it helps hugely, it helps in any low grip situation, and its "always there" the transition is pretty seemless. For me that was much better than a true locker that would be better 1% of the time, and offer no benefit at all, all other times. it's also quiet smooth, and daily driveable. - nice if you are covering big miles.

Thanks! I have read probably close to 1000 posts about Truetracs, and your experience indeed matches everyobe else's their perceived and observed benefits of TTs.

I am really curious, however, how well they can work for more "articulatory" wheeling. Folks with other modern vehicles utilizing various brake-biasing traction control systems generally say the TTs work well with them to compensate for not being locked. But, I am just looking for more input before biting the bullet.

 

[Lindenwood]

the 1996-2002 4Runner doesn't have A-Trac although the 2001-2002 had VSC/Trac.

Have you thought any more on our disparate interpretations of the owner's manual on Trac vs Atrac?

Also, can you provide any more insight as to exactly why you say the 3rd gen "Active Trac" is not effective at limiting wheelspin offroad?

As a Mensan, I am just looking for good details to increase my understanding .

Thanks!

 

[GR8SCP3]

Has anyone used this combo? I am pretty sold on the idea for my DD / Expo rig build. I understand it is not a locker, but for the most part I don't plan on doing a lot of wheel lifting. Still, on the occasion I do get crossed up, I would indeed expect the ATrac and Truetracs to work well together.

Thanks!

Did you ever try this? Thinking seriously about doing this on my GX470 and would really appreciate your feedback.