Early versus late 3rd gen T4R

[Carnutbmw]

Hello all

I am looking to buy a 3rd gen Hilux Surf 3.4 litre in Japan. As I live in continental Europe (The Netherlands), I would prefer to have a (left hand drive) 4Runner, but unfortunately importing a car from the USA or Canada is much more expensive than importing from Japan.

I'm trying to determine whether to go for an early one, or try and find a 1999 or later. Early cars will be cheaper, not just because these are sold at lower prices, but also because cars manufactured in 1998 or later years are more expensive to import into The Netherlands. The reason is that an individual type approval is required, which involves a very tedious process.

In view of this, the following questions come to mind:

1) Are 1996 or 1997 vehicles more prone to rust than later cars? (apart from the fact that an early car has had more time to rust);
2) Do earlier cars have other weaknesses which have been eliminated in later years?


Any thoughts on (dis)advantages of early versus late 3rd gen 4Runners/Surfs are much appreciated, thanks!




Regards,
Frans

 

[tvpierce]

What's your intended use for the vehicle? Daily driver/on-road only? Rock crawler/off-road only? Or somewhere in between?

 

[sleepydad]

Hello all

I am looking to buy a 3rd gen Hilux Surf 3.4 litre in Japan. As I live in continental Europe (The Netherlands), I would prefer to have a (left hand drive) 4Runner, but unfortunately importing a car from the USA or Canada is much more expensive than importing from Japan.

I'm trying to determine whether to go for an early one, or try and find a 1999 or later. Early cars will be cheaper, not just because these are sold at lower prices, but also because cars manufactured in 1998 or later years are more expensive to import into The Netherlands. The reason is that an individual type approval is required, which involves a very tedious process.

In view of this, the following questions come to mind:

1) Are 1996 or 1997 vehicles more prone to rust than later cars? (apart from the fact that an early car has had more time to rust);
2) Do earlier cars have other weaknesses which have been eliminated in later years?


Any thoughts on (dis)advantages of early versus late 3rd gen 4Runners/Surfs are much appreciated, thanks!




Regards,
Frans

I have never owned a Surf because they are unicorns here in the USA. pretty much the same trucks as 4Runner.
I have owned a 2002,2000,1997 4Runner all with 3.4 L 5vzfe and A340F trans.

1996-1998 are solid and great. sure they rust but so does pretty much everything else after 20+ years.

1999-2000 on par with the 1996-1998 some improvements with intake/air box makes these trucks a little bit cheaper to service and some report a little more power due to the MAF/intake changes.

2001-2002 they redesigned the braking system/ABS and added traction control, got rid of the transmission kick down link. there have also been some reports that the automatic transmissions in these trucks suffer from planetary gear failure.

I can't answer for the 2001-2002 trans failure never had that happen. I live where they use road salt and my 2002 rusted faster than the older trucks I have owned and I hated the traction control. the traction control is very primitive and in my opinion makes these truck suck. you can disable it with some mods, most owners do this.

I love my 2000 and my 1997, I will never own a 2001,2002 again. My experience seems to indicate the 1996-1998 last a bit longer than the newer trucks in terms of rust. if you have some must have feature? go for that truck, they are all really great. rust will get them all eventually. nothing mechanical lasts forever. enjoy them while they last.

 

[96RedRunner]

[MENTION=293807]Carnutbmw[/MENTION]
I can vouch for the reliability of a 96 3.4L 4x4 Ltd auto, owned Redrunner for 18 yrs, totaled at 380k miles 2-18. Had original drivetrain, original brake MC and calipers rear drum brakes. Trans shifted great.
Purchased 01 3.4L 4x4 Ltd auto 198k miles 2-17. I purchased with a bad ABS/Trac module, $300 fix used part, if purchased new $1600 USD.
I had more faith in the 96 over the 01 because of the 01 Trans OD planetary gear failures that tend to happen when they fail.
The Trac system sucks on the 01-02's, the Andy Mod gets around that.
The 01-02 ABS master cylinder will be a expensive fix when it goes there are cases of failure.
As for rust, neither of mine came from the rust/snow belt, though I do spend time there.
As long as you do rust prevention measures all will last the same.
In my eyes the 96-2k's are good years to get, 01-02's not so much
Good luck in the hunt.
Merry Christmas!!

 

[T4R2014]

With a V6 Surf, year doesn't matter too much. I have never seen a Surf that didn't have multimode 4WD, and the V6 is no exception. This is the main advantage that a 99+ 4Runner can have over a 96-98. 99+ would primarily concern creature comforts which can be added to any year. Pick the cleanest V6 Surf in a spec you like.

 

[Carnutbmw]

What's your intended use for the vehicle? Daily driver/on-road only? Rock crawler/off-road only? Or somewhere in between?

Somewhere in between, would be the answer. I intend to use it for driving off road in the mountains during holidays. Nothing too drastic though, no rock crawling. Most of the mileage will be on paved roads, as there are no mountains near where I live, so I have to cover some distance to get there.

I may use it during tough winters as well, although we don’t have many of those.

 

[Carnutbmw]

I have never owned a Surf because they are unicorns here in the USA. pretty much the same trucks as 4Runner.
I have owned a 2002,2000,1997 4Runner all with 3.4 L 5vzfe and A340F trans.

1996-1998 are solid and great. sure they rust but so does pretty much everything else after 20+ years.

1999-2000 on par with the 1996-1998 some improvements with intake/air box makes these trucks a little bit cheaper to service and some report a little more power due to the MAF/intake changes.

2001-2002 they redesigned the braking system/ABS and added traction control, got rid of the transmission kick down link. there have also been some reports that the automatic transmissions in these trucks suffer from planetary gear failure.

I can't answer for the 2001-2002 trans failure never had that happen. I live where they use road salt and my 2002 rusted faster than the older trucks I have owned and I hated the traction control. the traction control is very primitive and in my opinion makes these truck suck. you can disable it with some mods, most owners do this.

I love my 2000 and my 1997, I will never own a 2001,2002 again. My experience seems to indicate the 1996-1998 last a bit longer than the newer trucks in terms of rust. if you have some must have feature? go for that truck, they are all really great. rust will get them all eventually. nothing mechanical lasts forever. enjoy them while they last.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Good to read that early versions are just as solid, or perhaps even better than later ones. Your comment on the rust issue is interesting; apparently there is no reason to opt for a later vehicle for this reason either.

I have read something about blown head gaskets on the 5VZ-FE, but I haven’t been able to determine whether this is specifically related to overheating, or a problem in itself. Any thoughts on this? Is there any reason to assume that early cars might be more of a risk in this respect?

 

[Carnutbmw]

With a V6 Surf, year doesn't matter too much. I have never seen a Surf that didn't have multimode 4WD, and the V6 is no exception. This is the main advantage that a 99+ 4Runner can have over a 96-98. 99+ would primarily concern creature comforts which can be added to any year. Pick the cleanest V6 Surf in a spec you like.

The Multimode transfer case is an absolute must for me, which is another reason to go for a Surf rather than a 4Runner. Browsing Japanese used cars sites I did notice that most cars - including pre-1999 ones - do indeed have both the “One touch” button AND the 4WD symbol in the instrument panel with the circle representing the center differential. I like that

 

[Carnutbmw]

Thanks 96Redrunner, that’s good news.

 

[Carnutbmw]

Any additional thoughts on early versus late 4Runners/Surfs are very welcome.

And a merry Xmas to all !

 

[Dropzone]

Any additional thoughts on early versus late 4Runners/Surfs are very welcome.

And a merry Xmas to all !

i like the earlier ones (if in stock form) because those don't look like they had a 5 gallon botox injection in the bumper...aka the fat lip bumper

 

[jgue467]

The 'lip' is just a bit more than looks....but I do see how some like to 'punch 'em'! :cowboy:

 

[Carnutbmw]

i like the earlier ones (if in stock form) because those don't look like they had a 5 gallon botox injection in the bumper...aka the fat lip bumper

I don’t really mind the fat lip, it looks sort of cool. A bit of a Japanese quirk I guess, several Jap SUV’s from that era have weird humps on their front bumpers.

 

[nissanh]

I believe 01 and 02 (may include 2000) has the expensive brake master pump (ATRAC) and costs US$ 2000 new from the dealer. At around 230K miles those tend to fail.

Try to find the one with full time all-wheel drive without the expensive brake master pump (1999?). ABS is different from ATRAC.

You can also try Prado in the same year range. Same everything except the body and interior. Prado got bigger interior and 7 seats as well.

 

[96RedRunner]

High dollar ABS MC started in 01.

 

[sleepydad]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Good to read that early versions are just as solid, or perhaps even better than later ones. Your comment on the rust issue is interesting; apparently there is no reason to opt for a later vehicle for this reason either.

I have read something about blown head gaskets on the 5VZ-FE, but I haven’t been able to determine whether this is specifically related to overheating, or a problem in itself. Any thoughts on this? Is there any reason to assume that early cars might be more of a risk in this respect?

as long as you change fluids, keep up with maintenance and wear items the 5VZ-FE will outlast the life of the truck. usually blown head gaskets are from neglect and or obvious maintenance tasks people just ignore.

I'm 100% sure some of these engines have failed because of a mechanical issue or internal failing, all mechanical things fail at some point. if you take care of them they will run a very long time, you will notice a substantial power loss and fuel efficiency will also drop off long before your going to have some type of physical engine failure.

I have not noticed a difference between any model of 5VZ except for leaking valve cover gaskets. the older engines seem to leak from the valve cover gaskets without fail. the newer engines go further before valve cover gaskets started leaking. I think they improved the gaskets in 2001 and it shows.

you have to know getting into this - your buying a 20+ year old truck. there is going to be some maintenance items. value for your money they are very sensible.

 

[Carnutbmw]

High dollar ABS MC started in 01.

Thanks, great information! I will avoid 01 and 02 trucks with the traction control.

I believe 01 and 02 (may include 2000) has the expensive brake master pump (ATRAC) and costs US$ 2000 new from the dealer. At around 230K miles those tend to fail.

Try to find the one with full time all-wheel drive without the expensive brake master pump (1999?). ABS is different from ATRAC.

You can also try Prado in the same year range. Same everything except the body and interior. Prado got bigger interior and 7 seats as well.

The Prado is a good alternative, but as far as I’m concerned the Surf has better looks. I also like the fact that it can be used in 2WD on paved roads, and it’s slightly cheaper than the Prado too.

I may have to resort to the Prado though. They are auctioned in larger numbers than Surfs, so it’s probably easier to find a nice one.

 

[Carnutbmw]

as long as you change fluids, keep up with maintenance and wear items the 5VZ-FE will outlast the life of the truck. usually blown head gaskets are from neglect and or obvious maintenance tasks people just ignore.

I'm 100% sure some of these engines have failed because of a mechanical issue or internal failing, all mechanical things fail at some point. if you take care of them they will run a very long time, you will notice a substantial power loss and fuel efficiency will also drop off long before your going to have some type of physical engine failure.

I have not noticed a difference between any model of 5VZ except for leaking valve cover gaskets. the older engines seem to leak from the valve cover gaskets without fail. the newer engines go further before valve cover gaskets started leaking. I think they improved the gaskets in 2001 and it shows.

you have to know getting into this - your buying a 20+ year old truck. there is going to be some maintenance items. value for your money they are very sensible.

Thanks Andy. No doubt I’ll have to spend some money on maintenance, I don’t mind as long as it’s nothing major. Rust proofing will on the program too.

 

[96RedRunner]

Thanks, great information! I will avoid 01 and 02 trucks with the traction control...

I wouldn't avoid a 01-02 if the vehicle is in good shape. The number of 01-02's
produced that ended up having issues with Trans and or MC comes down to maintenance performed or not I think.
My 01 has 211k miles with original stuff, 198kmi with spotty maintenance performed by PO, no problems so far, I have done the maint to keep it going.
The Trac Sys works fine on pavement not so much when you need to power through slippery stuff such as mud or snow.
The Andy Mod solves that problem it's a easy mod also.
So far the only reason I wish I had gone with 2k or older is I would like to do dual
transfer cases the Trac Sys Trans make it a bigger headache.

Redrunner had 5VZ it still did not burn any oil, no head gasket issue in 380k mi it is a good motor.

 

[Carnutbmw]

I wouldn't avoid a 01-02 if the vehicle is in good shape. The number of 01-02's
produced that ended up having issues with Trans and or MC comes down to maintenance performed or not I think.
My 01 has 211k miles with original stuff, 198kmi with spotty maintenance performed by PO, no problems so far, I have done the maint to keep it going.
The Trac Sys works fine on pavement not so much when you need to power through slippery stuff such as mud or snow.
The Andy Mod solves that problem it's a easy mod also.
So far the only reason I wish I had gone with 2k or older is I would like to do dual
transfer cases the Trac Sys Trans make it a bigger headache.

Redrunner had 5VZ it still did not burn any oil, no head gasket issue in 380k mi it is a good motor.

Thanks, that's good to know.