flying saucer noise when 4Runner's moving

[blackmax]

Right, no need to replace all four bearings. i realized that soon after I posted it - what was i thinking! The reference pricing info is useful, thanks.

I'll report the root cause and experience back to this thread once I get the problem fixed.

I still HIGHLY doubt it's a wheel bearing. They sound (well, in all cases I've ever encountered or heard of) quite gritty and rough. I just don't see how a wheel bearing sounds like a flying saucer. More like metal on metal grinding, and worse when turning the opposite direction as the offending side.

I really think it's between the tranny and the rear wheels, or something up front, like alternator, water pump or even idler pully. The problem is, if you take it to someone, they usually will diagnose A problem and replace something, regardless if that's really "it" or not. I've done this too many times, where I complain of X, they replace A, B and C....but the problem (X) is still present. Now, I'm out $800, and the shop says "yea, but A, B and C needed to be fixed too."

Differential is usually only when floating (until it's quite advanced), and does sound like a "singing" or high pitched hummmmm, or even could be a flying saucer sound. But again, that's usually only when floating between acceleration and deceleration. I'd almost rule out bearing and diff....but, that's me. Good luck.

 

[tcpoob]

rear diff

blackmax,

i think you might have nailed it. I took it to a trusted mechanic for a quick look (didn't take anything apart). he took a test drive with me and heard the noise. Then had it up on a lift while on 4wd, perhaps on 1st gear. He Went underneath the lifted vehicle to find the source of that noise. He said it appeared to be from the rear differential. He suggested i take it to the dealer's service for further diagnostics and see what they say - maybe they don't have to replace the whole rear end, but just some part(s) in the rear differential.

But isn't 90k miles too soon for a rear diff to start going south, especially a trusted and beloved 4Runner, mostly highway miles (about 90 to 100 miles per day commute to work). never off roaded, never towed. sure i probably should have had the diff fluids replaced but would it have made that much diff? Another mechanic there actually said once diff starts going bad, new fluid doesn't help, and could be even worse - that sounds weird to me.

i have a service appt for this at the dealer's next Tue. am i looking a a couple hundred dollars work or a couple thousand? Shall I consider getting rid of this ride. Fact is I've a long commute to work and live up on a hill so really liked the ability of this going up my driveway in a nor'easter.

thanks guys.

I still HIGHLY doubt it's a wheel bearing. They sound (well, in all cases I've ever encountered or heard of) quite gritty and rough. I just don't see how a wheel bearing sounds like a flying saucer. More like metal on metal grinding, and worse when turning the opposite direction as the offending side.

I really think it's between the tranny and the rear wheels, or something up front, like alternator, water pump or even idler pully. The problem is, if you take it to someone, they usually will diagnose A problem and replace something, regardless if that's really "it" or not. I've done this too many times, where I complain of X, they replace A, B and C....but the problem (X) is still present. Now, I'm out $800, and the shop says "yea, but A, B and C needed to be fixed too."

Differential is usually only when floating (until it's quite advanced), and does sound like a "singing" or high pitched hummmmm, or even could be a flying saucer sound. But again, that's usually only when floating between acceleration and deceleration. I'd almost rule out bearing and diff....but, that's me. Good luck.

 

[macoyle]

If it is your rear diff, its a lot easier and cheaper to have it replaced now than if the rear carrier explodes and the metal chunks mess up other parts, you can find a replacement carrier with gears set up for a decent price and its a pretty easy install. That would fix ya right up and you would be good to go. As for the fluid, that mechanic was not that smart or had a brain fart, rear diffs fluids can be changed without hurting anything, it can only help taking away the old fluid thats contaminated with small shavings away from your ring, pinion and spider gears.

He may have gotten that fluid confused with your transmission fluid, when a transmission is going south, its a 50/50 shot of helping the transmission out or sending it to the grave when you change the fluid if its already burnt. If its changed often and is not compromised then it will not effect the longevity of your tranny in a bad way. Same rule of thumb goes with transfercases with clutches

If you are in CT this weekend I will take a look at it for you-

 

[jimlaw3]

Man that sucks,now i'm a little worried,rear diff gone bad that quick.I was hoping it was as simple as a wheel bearing,but thats how it goes sometimes.I have 40k on mine and I replaced my diff fluids with Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil,I thought Toyota's were tough,not in this case huh.

 

[macoyle]

Dont sweat the small stuff, all the manufacturers have hiccups, not a huge deal...It does suck when it happens to you but look at the vast majority of people with more miles and either no or less miles

 

[BinaryMan]

Sounds like what I was experienceing. The noise on my truck was from Frozen calipers! I had the calipers/rotors replaced at the dealer and the noise is gone.

To test for frozen calipers, you'll have to put the truck on lift , with tranny in netural try to spin the tires. They should spin freely but if not its the frozen calipers.

If thats the problem, you should replace both calipers/rotor/pads and bleed the system.

 

[BassMiesterNJ]

Had my rear diff done at 60k (just made the Drivetrain wty).

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/57820-whub-whub-whub-noise-rear.html

"All fixed. Running like a champ. No explanation for problem.

(1) Carrier Assy, Dif - replaced
(1) Gasket, Dif - replaced
(6) Gear lube

Align four wheels.

New tires".

Feels like a new truck.

 

[tcpoob]

VenomHP, thanks for offering to take a look at CT, i'll have to take a rain check.

In most likelyhood, do you think the dealer service can just replace some parts in the "pumpkin" or the whole rear axle? Am I looking at around $1000 or a lot more? Where can I find "replacement carrier with gears set up for a decent price"? I am the kinda guy who could mess up a bowl of cereal so it'll either be at the dealer's or an independent garage. But with used parts and non genuine OEM parts, I am concerned how long it'll last.

Guess what, I found another unluckly fella needing rear diff (and more) online,
2005 Toyota 4Runner User Reviews - MSN Autos

"Never Again"
2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD
02/16/2010
By: don from RI
Owned: 5 years
Review ID: #545540
4.2 Overall Rating

5 Styling
5 Performance
7 Interior
3 Quality
3 Recommendation


Pros:
Not Much

Cons:
Vehicle is too light Terrible in snow Low Tire Pressure Light

Overall Review:
This is my second and last 4 Runner ,at 90,000 miles I had to replace the rear differential and transmission and then in less than one year I had to replace the rear differential again (fortunately still under the one year parts warranty) but I had to pay for the labor again. Had a 1994 4 Runner and never had a problem for 8 years and over 100,000 miles, this 2005 is half the SUV of that one

If it is your rear diff, its a lot easier and cheaper to have it replaced now than if the rear carrier explodes and the metal chunks mess up other parts, you can find a replacement carrier with gears set up for a decent price and its a pretty easy install. That would fix ya right up and you would be good to go. As for the fluid, that mechanic was not that smart or had a brain fart, rear diffs fluids can be changed without hurting anything, it can only help taking away the old fluid thats contaminated with small shavings away from your ring, pinion and spider gears.

He may have gotten that fluid confused with your transmission fluid, when a transmission is going south, its a 50/50 shot of helping the transmission out or sending it to the grave when you change the fluid if its already burnt. If its changed often and is not compromised then it will not effect the longevity of your tranny in a bad way. Same rule of thumb goes with transfercases with clutches

If you are in CT this weekend I will take a look at it for you-

 

[manhunter]

Are you saying that you have NEVER had the rear diff serviced after 90K miles? I had the rear diff go out on my previous ride, Dodge RAM 1500, at 80K miles. They said all the parts inside had to be replaced, to the tune of around $2000. I showed them where I had it serviced every 30K miles, and pointed out that a rear diff should not go out at only 80K miles. The service manager agreed and I contacted the regional office. Dodge ended up covering half the cost, so it cost me $1000. If, that is if, you can show regular service records of the rear diff, then you may try the same thing with Toyota, and at least get them to meet you half-way. Just a suggestion, assuming it is the rear diff.

 

[blackmax]

If it is your rear diff, its a lot easier and cheaper to have it replaced now than if the rear carrier explodes and the metal chunks mess up other parts, you can find a replacement carrier with gears set up for a decent price and its a pretty easy install. That would fix ya right up and you would be good to go. As for the fluid, that mechanic was not that smart or had a brain fart, rear diffs fluids can be changed without hurting anything, it can only help taking away the old fluid thats contaminated with small shavings away from your ring, pinion and spider gears.

He may have gotten that fluid confused with your transmission fluid, when a transmission is going south, its a 50/50 shot of helping the transmission out or sending it to the grave when you change the fluid if its already burnt. If its changed often and is not compromised then it will not effect the longevity of your tranny in a bad way. Same rule of thumb goes with transfercases with clutches

If you are in CT this weekend I will take a look at it for you-

+1 on that.

1) 90k miles is early for the diff. I never had a ford econoline delivery truck go out before 120.

2) ring/pinnion is way cheaper than the whole carrier.

3) if it progresses to the point where the carrier goes.....I used to pay $1800 for Ford econolines to be replaced. I'm betting Toyota will get $2200-2600

 

[blackmax]

Had my rear diff done at 60k (just made the Drivetrain wty).

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/57820-whub-whub-whub-noise-rear.html

"All fixed. Running like a champ. No explanation for problem.

(1) Carrier Assy, Dif - replaced
(1) Gasket, Dif - replaced
(6) Gear lube

Align four wheels.

New tires".

Feels like a new truck.

what did you pay? My truck is now doing an odd HUUUUUuuuummmmm (high to low pitched) when slowing down from 35 mph to 0. I think it's nothing....but, I have 100k now. I also just replaced the diff fluid, for those of you who followed that post.....pray for me, as I'm driving from LA to Denver in the AM. Uh oh.

 

[BassMiesterNJ]

what did you pay?

Covered under the Drive-train Wty.

I'm thinking it would have been around $1500 but don't quote me on it.

 

[tcpoob]

Dropped off at dealership at 10am for diag. They didn't look at it till after 6:30p. Was told the right rear wheel bearing needs to be replaced. part, to be ordered, is $400 + four hour labor, so total over $800. 4 hour labor sounds ridiculous, for rear right ( i guess it means rear passenger side ) wheel bearing replacement.

I am weighing my choice while waiting for the parts to come in. Like one you said, this could well be "when you complain problem X, they replace A B C and then you're out a grand before they tell you well ABC also needed replacement ...

I felt like by the time I called for status and was told they've not looked at it, to when i went down there to pick it up, it was about an hour. The tech was still finishing up another vehicle. So is less than an hour enough time for him to root cause my noise problem. Last Fri, another mechanic had it up on a hoist and quickly ran a few test and suggested it *might* be the rear differential. I'd hate to run into the classic "ABC vs X" dealer game.

What do you say? Oh, is the *right rear* wheel bearing the part #5 in the illustration as follows - axle bearings?

 

[blackmax]

2005 V6 4WD 4Runner, 91k, mostly highway miles

noise can be heard when 4Runner's moving. My 9 year old says it sounds like "flying saucer". I know it is not from wind or road, and it's not the engine revving humming sound. it goes in parallel to the engine sound, a little higher pitched, i feel like it's from something spinning/rotating.

i've done regular oil changes and brake pad change, rotor turned. but haven't done the so called scheduled maintenance. So the transfer case fluid, front rear center diff fluid etc mostly haven't been changed. oh yeah the original spark plugs are way overdue at this mileage. i plan to get those replaced with Denso OEM ones soon.

i think at highway speed the noise is still there but mostly blends in with road and wind and engine noise t's during slowing down or at the initial pulling out of the road from stop to moving that the saucer noise become very noticeable. Once you come to full stop, even when the engine's still running, the noise goes away.

i am concerned. should i take it to the dealer - do they charge much for trying to identify the problem. i heard they charge for those and if you get it fixed there they usually waive the diagnostic fee.

should i get a tune up or go do the 90k maint? Anyone experiencing similar noise? Thanks a lot for any tips.

Well Holy Smoke!!!! I responded to your post a few times, back about a week ago. I told you no way it's a wheel bearing, but rather a diff or pulley or water pump or drive shaft.....or a/c blower...etc. To be honest, I figured it was nothing. Well, I just drove from LA to Denver, and you got my brain on the idea of weird noises. Sure enough....I heard the G.D. "ufo noise". It was a high pitched "ufo" or raygun or something. I rolled down the rear (as in tailgait) window,and it was NOT my imagination. It was LOUD. I almost felt embarrassed as surly other cars could here it.

Now, this was in the snow, crossing the rockies. Once I got down to more flat land, it seems to be gone now.

]

 

[tcpoob]

update on the whining flying saucer noise

took my ride to a machine shop - i was told the owner specialized in rear end. he inspected the ride and told me he ordered some differential bearing kit. part plus labor is $800-900. he said he took the rear tires off and disconnected drive shaft but didn't open the rear diff. he turned the diff with hand after disconnecting drive shaft and felt it was "rachety" - maybe that meant "clicky" or non-smooth. he said the bearing kit comes with multiple bearings and it'll be hard or not worth it to figure out which one went bad.

how does the mechanic's analysis sound - and the price? he said it's some non-oem but quality parts, timkin or something - i could be wrong.

i also brought him some 5w30 (mobil 1 supersyn), oil filter, and mobil 75w90 gear lube (7 qts), rear brake pads and asked him to do those. he said it'll be another $150 ish. suggested me to buy rotor, instead of turning the rear rotors as the napa ones cost not too much more than turning the rotors. reasonably good quality napa rotors. i looked up partznet and rear brake rotors cost around $107. maybe i should just get OEM from partznet instead?

at least the machine shop owner is pointing at the rear diff, not the "wheel bearing" as the Toyota dealer reported. I am assuming wheel bearing is totally different from bearings in diff, right? How much labor does it sound like to replace diff bearings - the diff needs to be taken apart. is that considering rebuilding the rear diff?

thanks.

 

[SecretAgent]

took my ride to a machine shop - i was told the owner specialized in rear end. he inspected the ride and told me he ordered some differential bearing kit. part plus labor is $800-900. he said he took the rear tires off and disconnected drive shaft but didn't open the rear diff. he turned the diff with hand after disconnecting drive shaft and felt it was "rachety" - maybe that meant "clicky" or non-smooth. he said the bearing kit comes with multiple bearings and it'll be hard or not worth it to figure out which one went bad.

how does the mechanic's analysis sound - and the price? he said it's some non-oem but quality parts, timkin or something - i could be wrong.

i also brought him some 5w30 (mobil 1 supersyn), oil filter, and mobil 75w90 gear lube (7 qts), rear brake pads and asked him to do those. he said it'll be another $150 ish. suggested me to buy rotor, instead of turning the rear rotors as the napa ones cost not too much more than turning the rotors. reasonably good quality napa rotors. i looked up partznet and rear brake rotors cost around $107. maybe i should just get OEM from partznet instead?

at least the machine shop owner is pointing at the rear diff, not the "wheel bearing" as the Toyota dealer reported. I am assuming wheel bearing is totally different from bearings in diff, right? How much labor does it sound like to replace diff bearings - the diff needs to be taken apart. is that considering rebuilding the rear diff?

thanks.

what makes you trust his opinion over the toyota dealers?

 

[tcpoob]

what makes you trust his opinion over the toyota dealers?

good question. i could be wrong, of course but i feel going throu a service advisor to report the problem and getting a report on what's wrong is not too straightforward. it's okay for some obvious fixes but something like noise ...

the day i dropped off the ride at dealer's service dept for diag, they didn't look at it until after 6pm ( dropped off at 10:15 am). they were flooded by recall repairs. my estimate is they only took 30 minutes to look at my ride at the end of the day. they never called me back when i said go ahead to order the wheel bearing.

on the other hand, people i work with who seems to know cars well, used the mechanic years ago and recommended him.

sure i could be wrong. got other ideas you let me know. thx.

 

[colombo]

On front wheel drive car it was easy to diagnose wheel bearings, just suspending the front end and blocking one or other wheels and accelerating. You would hear the "plane" from faulty side. Not sure if this method will work on 4 WD though. But just another idea.

 

[BassMiesterNJ]

what did you pay?

Nothing.

Covered under Drive train Warranty (5/60)

Estimate was around $1500.00.

 

[blackmax]

took my ride to a machine shop - i was told the owner specialized in rear end. he inspected the ride and told me he ordered some differential bearing kit. part plus labor is $800-900. he said he took the rear tires off and disconnected drive shaft but didn't open the rear diff. he turned the diff with hand after disconnecting drive shaft and felt it was "rachety" - maybe that meant "clicky" or non-smooth. he said the bearing kit comes with multiple bearings and it'll be hard or not worth it to figure out which one went bad.

how does the mechanic's analysis sound - and the price? he said it's some non-oem but quality parts, timkin or something - i could be wrong.

i also brought him some 5w30 (mobil 1 supersyn), oil filter, and mobil 75w90 gear lube (7 qts), rear brake pads and asked him to do those. he said it'll be another $150 ish. suggested me to buy rotor, instead of turning the rear rotors as the napa ones cost not too much more than turning the rotors. reasonably good quality napa rotors. i looked up partznet and rear brake rotors cost around $107. maybe i should just get OEM from partznet instead?

at least the machine shop owner is pointing at the rear diff, not the "wheel bearing" as the Toyota dealer reported. I am assuming wheel bearing is totally different from bearings in diff, right? How much labor does it sound like to replace diff bearings - the diff needs to be taken apart. is that considering rebuilding the rear diff?

thanks.

Boy, it's hard to say. I don't trust dealers, but they do see more cars and should know 99% of the problems. However, on the other hand, my experience is that they will sometimes quickly diagnose the problem and fix something. In my experience, that is sometimes not something that really needed to be fixed.

On the other hand, you then took it to a "rear-end specialist"......and presto, they found a "rear-end problem". Surprising. Could be right, but I wonder how often those guys tell a customer, "nope, it's _____ and we don't do that". Funny how that always works that way, huh? LOL

If it were me, I'd make it very clear that you are NOT there to get a "clicky" or "catchy" bearing replaced or ANYTHING else. You are there to get the flying saucer sound to go away. I'd make sure that is written down. So, if the flying saucer noise doesn't go away, then service was not rendered, no matter what they did.

.