Fourwheeler.com 2015 Fourwheeler of the Year

[Jetboy]

Then let's get 5.7 as an option. I don't think we would take much of a mileage hit. My 14' Crewmax gets about 13.7 mpg no matter what, the 4 Runner isn't much better.

IMO proper tuning of the 1Gr is all we really need. The 1Gr that Lotus uses in some models is ~450hp normally aspirated. Our RX350 is considerably more powerful feeling - mostly due to throttle response and tuning.

I think a turbo atkinson cycle 1GR could be an amazing engine. At 4L it should be pretty easy to build 500hp/500ftlbs. Even a mild version with say 400/400 would be awesome.

OTOH a diet would be my preferred option. Get the 4runner back down to 3,500lbs and the 1GR will feel like a rocket.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

If anything the 4Runner is more in line with the Grand Cherokee as they are they are the only two built on truck frames and are similar in size. The Cherokee is more of a compact SUV while the 4Runner is more in line with a Midsize SUV.

The entry level Cherokees with Active Drive 1 may be more of an Outback competitor but it would probably be closer to the Subaru Forester in size.

Personally, I would rather have a Limited Outback than a Cherokee Latitude but thats just me.

Wait what? The Grand Cherokee has always been a crappy Unibody, the only Body on Frame vehicle Jeep has is the Wrangler; everything else is a Unibody or as they like to try and obfuscate it. "UniFrame."

 

[Jetboy]

This^

The GC is a unibody ifs/irs crossover. It's a bit closer in design to a highlander or a subaru than it is to a 4runner. Nothing wrong with an IFS/IRS unibody suv. Just different design philosophy.

 

[jam46283]

Here's the linK:

2015 Four Wheeler of The Year - Super Showdown

TRD Pro 4Runner vs. Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk and Renegade

The following is a short list of the pros/cons of each vehicle.

Trailhhawk:

Pros:
V6 Pentastar has way more power and gets better mileage than the 4.0 liter Toyota

I know this is an old thread but just saw this thanks to jeep commercial.

I made it halfway through the first page and read v6 pentastar "has way more power" than our 4L. Was going to try to keep an open mind, but you lost me. By what metric does the Cherokee v6 have way more power? you Jeepers must have invented a new way to rate engines besides horsepower and torque..

( I'm sure has been said 100x by now) that a self titled four wheeling magazine would claim a Cherokee trailhawk a better off road vehicle than a trd pro 4Runner is hilarious, I honestly checked to make sure this wasnt written on April first.

 

[grammatik2015]

I purchased a Jeep with a lifetime power train warranty offered directly by the manufacturer. Turns out it was not worth the paper it was written on. About two years later the company was declared bankrupt and the warranty was terminated. My local dealership was closed. Friends who had always helped and worked with me to fix multiple Jeeps were suddenly without jobs. Until that point I was a loyal Jeep customer, putting up with the obvious quality issues but enjoying the solid axles, off-road features and the top down driving I've known for years. I'll never buy another Jeep product and it would be hard for me to purchase anything from fiat.

The new fiat cherokee seemed like such a good vehicle on paper but the final product is a poor value, quite a change from the function over form of the XJ. Production was halted for months due to issues with the transmission, a significant number of vehicles were already built. This is not a good sign of a properly engineered vehicle.

A well-optioned trailhawk is $37,460 and does not provide significant fuel savings when compared to a 4Runner. Compare Side-by-Side

I found the interior room pretty small considering how big it is on the outside. They may have a hit with the renegade for CUV buyers, only time will tell if it can hold up. This FWOTY is laughable.

No significant fuels savings????? Are you for real???? 18 vs 22 in my book that's a 22% saving when you go from 4R to TH. Wear a helmet next time you off-road to protect that precious brain of yours.
Just came back from a 900 mile trip in my wife's JGC Limited and got 22.8m/gallon to and over 25 on way back (some help from wind) driving 70-80mph.
Toyota needs to join year 2015 and give us engine/transmission combo that gets 22 combined.

$37,460??? Is that MSRP?

This is a 4R forum but lets be objective: 4R is as dated platform as they come. To say 'no need for year 2000 tech in my 4R, just one more thing to break down' is just stupid. What? Toyota can not make reliable tech and put it in 4R??????????ray2:
My problem with article is that that they did not compare JGC to 4R.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

No significant fuels savings????? Are you for real???? 18 vs 22 in my book that's a 22% saving when you go from 4R to TH. Wear a helmet next time you off-road to protect that precious brain of yours.
Just came back from a 900 mile trip in my wife's JGC Limited and got 22.8m/gallon to and over 25 on way back (some help from wind) driving 70-80mph.
Toyota needs to join year 2015 and give us engine/transmission combo that gets 22 combined.

$37,460??? Is that MSRP?

This is a 4R forum but lets be objective: 4R is as dated platform as they come. To say 'no need for year 2000 tech in my 4R, just one more thing to break down' is just stupid. What? Toyota can not make reliable tech and put it in 4R??????????ray2:
My problem with article is that that they did not compare JGC to 4R.

Again what you're calling a "Dated" platform is desirable for almost all 4Runner owners. Jeeps, with the exception of the Wrangler (though that will probably be neutered as well) are not SUVs they are CUVs. They all lack a Body on Frame construction that is desirable for this segment of the market who purchases 4Runners/XTerras/Wranglers. While I agree the 4Runner's drivetrain is a bit dated, it's dated for a reason; because it's tried and true. Unlike Jeep/Fiat's countless cylinderhead issues across multiple engines, constant electrical issues, transmission issues, ect. There's something to be said about being conservative (though Toyota tends to be a bit too conservative sometimes and their practice of starting to charge a premium for that "feature" is something I'm not entirely in agreement with.)

Trying to compare a Unibody CUV to a BoF SUV is just not accurate. BoF typically seems to suffer in the fuel mileage department compared to Unibody vehicles; but they more than make up for it in frame strength, capability, and ruggedness. Something Jeep/Fiat hasn't been able to say for most of their vehicle line-up (along with reliability.)

If you want the benefits of a BoF SUV with the top of the line luxury and technology, you're looking at the G-Class Mercedes. That thing is basically the best Luxury BoF SUV you can get in terms of capability, technology, luxury, and quality.

 

[THEROK]

Again what you're calling a "Dated" platform is desirable for almost all 4Runner owners. Jeeps, with the exception of the Wrangler (though that will probably be neutered as well) are not SUVs they are CUVs. They all lack a Body on Frame construction that is desirable for this segment of the market who purchases 4Runners/XTerras/Wranglers. While I agree the 4Runner's drivetrain is a bit dated, it's dated for a reason; because it's tried and true. Unlike Jeep/Fiat's countless cylinderhead issues across multiple engines, constant electrical issues, transmission issues, ect. There's something to be said about being conservative (though Toyota tends to be a bit too conservative sometimes and their practice of starting to charge a premium for that "feature" is something I'm not entirely in agreement with.)

Trying to compare a Unibody CUV to a BoF SUV is just not accurate. BoF typically seems to suffer in the fuel mileage department compared to Unibody vehicles; but they more than make up for it in frame strength, capability, and ruggedness. Something Jeep/Fiat hasn't been able to say for most of their vehicle line-up (along with reliability.)

If you want the benefits of a BoF SUV with the top of the line luxury and technology, you're looking at the G-Class Mercedes. That thing is basically the best Luxury BoF SUV you can get in terms of capability, technology, luxury, and quality.

Disagree. 200 series lc/lx takes the cake. Best made production vehicle today (quality, reliability, durability). G class is not a reliable rig.

And the jeep shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the 4Runner. Next to the land cruiser, the 4Runner is the most reliable vehicle in North America. Period.

Jeep is a heap of unreliable, Avis rental car appeal. Wrangler is doable simply due to its heritage and simplicity.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Disagree. 200 series lc/lx takes the cake. Best made production vehicle today (quality, reliability, durability). G class is not a reliable rig.

And the jeep shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the 4Runner. Next to the land cruiser, the 4Runner is the most reliable vehicle in North America. Period.

Jeep is a heap of unreliable, Avis rental car appeal. Wrangler is doable simply due to its heritage and simplicity.

Not discounting the LC200 (especially the 4.5L V8 Diesel and their more "base model" offerings overseas, which I would have loved to have offered in the US vs. the luxury vehicle we sell), but it still is "outdated" by the above poster's criteria. It uses the same 3UR-FE that has been in the Tundra for almost a decade now, most of all the technology is mildly improved from the LC100/LX470. Hence why I went with the G-Class since it has the shiniest of the shiny.

 

[grammatik2015]

And the jeep shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the 4Runner. Next to the land cruiser, the 4Runner is the most reliable vehicle in North America. Period.

Jeep is a heap of unreliable, Avis rental car appeal. Wrangler is doable simply due to its heritage and simplicity.

You for got to add that Jeep will give you cancer, AIDS and diabetes :banana:

To think of it.... 3 weeks after I got JGC, my dog got diabetes (sadly)..... coincidence???

 

[grammatik2015]

What can Toyota learn from Jeep?

Learn from Heep: put half decent OEM tires on TE 4R not some garbage that litters Craigslist across US.


For a city DD 4x4 Cherokee offers some decent off-road capability.

Hammering the Anvil: 2014 Trailhawk(KL) on Hell's Revenge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyJBr9O-u8g

 

[PHXTE]

I was about 30 seconds away from ordering a Cherokee TH before I bought my 4R.

Then I decided I didn't want a tall Fiat car with an unproven, problematic transmission, and that's fairly space inefficient when you consider how big it is on the exterior vs interior space.

IIRC, there might have been a $2k-$3k difference between what I was going to pay on the TH vs what I ended up getting my Trail for. I was going to pay $33kish for the TH vs $35k and change for the Trail.

Meh, I'll pass. I like my BOF truck and I don't really care for Fiat, even one with a Jeep badge on it. If were going to go that route, I'd just get a Subaru Outback and call it a day.

I made it halfway through the first page and read v6 pentastar "has way more power" than our 4L. Was going to try to keep an open mind, but you lost me. By what metric does the Cherokee v6 have way more power? you Jeepers must have invented a new way to rate engines besides horsepower and torque.

The Pentastar V6 makes one more horsey than does the engine in our 4Rs, but the Cherokee is also no less than 500 lbs lighter than the 4R is as well, depending on the trim of the Cherokee. I test drove the V6, it's significantly quicker than the 4R is, and is actually sorta fun to drive.

 

[sn_85]

No significant fuels savings????? Are you for real???? 18 vs 22 in my book that's a 22% saving when you go from 4R to TH. Wear a helmet next time you off-road to protect that precious brain of yours.
Just came back from a 900 mile trip in my wife's JGC Limited and got 22.8m/gallon to and over 25 on way back (some help from wind) driving 70-80mph.
Toyota needs to join year 2015 and give us engine/transmission combo that gets 22 combined.

$37,460??? Is that MSRP?

This is a 4R forum but lets be objective: 4R is as dated platform as they come. To say 'no need for year 2000 tech in my 4R, just one more thing to break down' is just stupid. What? Toyota can not make reliable tech and put it in 4R??????????ray2:
My problem with article is that that they did not compare JGC to 4R.

You make some valid points and I agree to a certain extent. The tech in the 4R is very dated compared to the playing field. From the interior materials & refinements, the infotainment system, and the old trusty powertrain. In those areas it does lack compared to say a JGC, Explorer, or Pathfinder. However I think most buyers getting a 4R know what they are getting into and things as interior refinements aren't the top priorities when looking for a truck. I'd venture that most want something that is more comfortable and feature friendly than a Wrangler along with some of the nice elements that a JGC might have. So I feel as an analogy that a 4R is meant for someone looking for a cross between a Wrangler and JGC. It's the best of both worlds really. And even then I think that's a bad comparison because at the end of the day you are getting a TOYOTA and you get all the ruggedness and reliability that comes with a Toyota. I know that I have a good vehicle for 250-300k miles. The same cannot be said for a Fiat Chrysler Automotive product. I'm sure you'll be happy with the JGC for 5-7 years then ditch it. 4R owners have the luxury of knowing they can run their truck into the ground for 15-20 years.

So yes, the JGC has a lot of things going for it that are better than the 4R and I really think that with the 6th gen 4R that Toyota has to step up their game in all areas. However, if I'm dropping 35-40k on a vehicle I'm going to spend on something that I know will be reliable and last me a good 10-15 years. I'll make my "concessions" and take the reliability Toyota any day of the week.

 

[TownsTrailT4R]

Lol the Cherokee "unfortunately" locked itself into 4 low and wouldn't unlock the rear diff. Thats the most quintessential Jeep thing I've ever heard, malfunctions after one trip offroad. That's why we love our Toyotas, because we depend on their reliability. Yet the jeep wins because the trd 4Runner's tow hooks didn't have a large diameter? Truth of the matter is 95% of the time that TRD isn't gonna be needing a tow. Hell, the Jeep will probably be begging for a tow from the TRD when it'll eventually decide to quit. Angered by this judgement, but hell what can ya do :shrug:

(this post may have been fueled by an overall despise of jeep products(-: )

 

[mo_mo]

I just asnered when I saw that anvil video posting. That’s a good one. So much editing. I like the excessive spotting, dragging, and wheel hanging it does over the terrain. I’m pretty sure that jeep is limiting the wheel droop of the TH to ensure that a child cannot put their head in-between the tire and the wheel well. New North American safety regulations!

The JC is tiny, over priced, whiz bang that fades fast, no aftermarket (most JC videos look like this
Transmission 1
Transmission 2
Transmission 3

I really like this TH adventuring (skip to 1:25 for the fun):
okay okay driver error the vehicle was doing just fine
Don’t forget that your JC club has an entire forum dedicated to recalls!

The JGC is reasonably sized, over priced, very road refined, no aftermarket

BTW, I’ve had the opportunity to compare a ‘14 JGC and ’14 4Runner over the same 100+ mile offroad journey, both running 265 duratracs, pump to pump caravanning. The 4Runner eked out better MPG on the journey with similar loads on the vehicles. Those extra 3 speeds don’t do much when it counts. Be sure to remove your front bumper when offroading to get that trail rated badging!

And then there is the pesky NHTSA. I’ll let you compare recalls and complaints.

Tires. The simplest thing to change on a vehicle. If Toyota put A/T tires on, then everyone would be complaining about MPG and noise. Should Toyota give you a vehicle with winter tires, summer tires, studded, sipped, extra ply? How about oversize?

Let me know when the JC or JGC get a following that puts together adventures like this.

 

[grammatik2015]

I just asnered when I saw that anvil video posting. That’s a good one. So much editing. I like the excessive spotting, dragging, and wheel hanging it does over the terrain. I’m pretty sure that jeep is limiting the wheel droop of the TH to ensure that a child cannot put their head in-between the tire and the wheel well. New North American safety regulations!

The JC is tiny, over priced, whiz bang that fades fast, no aftermarket (most JC videos look like this
Transmission 1
Transmission 2
Transmission 3

I really like this TH adventuring (skip to 1:25 for the fun):
okay okay driver error the vehicle was doing just fine
Don’t forget that your JC club has an entire forum dedicated to recalls!

The JGC is reasonably sized, over priced, very road refined, no aftermarket

BTW, I’ve had the opportunity to compare a ‘14 JGC and ’14 4Runner over the same 100+ mile offroad journey, both running 265 duratracs, pump to pump caravanning. The 4Runner eked out better MPG on the journey with similar loads on the vehicles. Those extra 3 speeds don’t do much when it counts. Be sure to remove your front bumper when offroading to get that trail rated badging!

And then there is the pesky NHTSA. I’ll let you compare recalls and complaints.

Tires. The simplest thing to change on a vehicle. If Toyota put A/T tires on, then everyone would be complaining about MPG and noise. Should Toyota give you a vehicle with winter tires, summer tires, studded, sipped, extra ply? How about oversize?

Let me know when the JC or JGC get a following that puts together adventures like this.

Sooo... another blind follower, non critical thinker.

[/QUOTE] BTW, I’ve had the opportunity to compare a ‘14 JGC and ’14 4Runner over the same 100+ mile offroad journey, both running 265 duratracs, pump to pump caravanning. The 4Runner eked out better MPG on the journey with similar loads on the vehicles. Those extra 3 speeds don’t do much when it counts. Be sure to remove your front bumper when offroading to get that trail rated badging! [/QUOTE]

Now this is a new concept: fuel economy while off-roading! Wow not sure what to say about this. But let me try better fuel economy = 'MO_Money' for modes:ybrick:


[/QUOTE] Tires. The simplest thing to change on a vehicle. If Toyota put A/T tires on, then everyone would be complaining about MPG and noise. Should Toyota give you a vehicle with winter tires, summer tires, studded, sipped, extra ply? How about oversize? [/QUOTE]
See above, point is that if Jeep can do it why Toyota gives garbage that require $1000 upgrade just to be safe on on pavement??? JC gets Firestone Destination AT, Toyota TRAIL gets garbage Dueler HT. Get it?
this
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Destination+A/T
vs this
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Dueler+H/T+D689


[/QUOTE]Let me know when the JC or JGC get a following that puts together adventures like this. [/QUOTE]

You totally missed my point, not worth even addressing it

 

[Jetboy]

No significant fuels savings????? Are you for real???? 18 vs 22 in my book that's a 22% saving when you go from 4R to TH. Wear a helmet next time you off-road to protect that precious brain of yours.
Just came back from a 900 mile trip in my wife's JGC Limited and got 22.8m/gallon to and over 25 on way back (some help from wind) driving 70-80mph.
Toyota needs to join year 2015 and give us engine/transmission combo that gets 22 combined.

$37,460??? Is that MSRP?

This is a 4R forum but lets be objective: 4R is as dated platform as they come. To say 'no need for year 2000 tech in my 4R, just one more thing to break down' is just stupid. What? Toyota can not make reliable tech and put it in 4R??????????ray2:
My problem with article is that that they did not compare JGC to 4R.

Toyota DOES make exactly what you want. You're looking for a car with big tires (JGC), not a truck with extra seats (4runner). Toyota happens to build a car with big tires that's exactly the same size as the 4runner. It's called a highlander. The JGC and Highlander are much closer competitors. Unibody station wagons with tall seating. Neither are intended or will ever be more than mildly offroad worthy, but they are great for road trips and campgrounds.

I have both an RX 350 (nicer highlander with more power) and a 4runner. The RX350 has more tech, nicer interior, better quality, etc. than the JGC and gets 22mpg combined. It basically does everything better than a JGC and is a much more comparable vehicle. What exactly is it you're looking for?

 

[grammatik2015]

You make some valid points and I agree to a certain extent. The tech in the 4R is very dated compared to the playing field. From the interior materials & refinements, the infotainment system, and the old trusty powertrain. In those areas it does lack compared to say a JGC, Explorer, or Pathfinder. However I think most buyers getting a 4R know what they are getting into and things as interior refinements aren't the top priorities when looking for a truck. I'd venture that most want something that is more comfortable and feature friendly than a Wrangler along with some of the nice elements that a JGC might have. So I feel as an analogy that a 4R is meant for someone looking for a cross between a Wrangler and JGC. It's the best of both worlds really. And even then I think that's a bad comparison because at the end of the day you are getting a TOYOTA and you get all the ruggedness and reliability that comes with a Toyota. I know that I have a good vehicle for 250-300k miles. The same cannot be said for a Fiat Chrysler Automotive product. I'm sure you'll be happy with the JGC for 5-7 years then ditch it. 4R owners have the luxury of knowing they can run their truck into the ground for 15-20 years.

So yes, the JGC has a lot of things going for it that are better than the 4R and I really think that with the 6th gen 4R that Toyota has to step up their game in all areas. However, if I'm dropping 35-40k on a vehicle I'm going to spend on something that I know will be reliable and last me a good 10-15 years. I'll make my "concessions" and take the reliability Toyota any day of the week.

As much as I hate 4R modern tech/mech 'deficiencies', this is why I am getting. I plan to keep it 8-10 years so may even skip 6th gen. Got my loan per-approval last week with my credit union 0.99%/60. Looks like dealers in Chicago area are more willing to discount 2015 inventory, Just got the OTD quote on SR5 Premium $35200 (includes all doc fees).

 

[mo_mo]

As much as I hate 4R modern tech/mech 'deficiencies', this is why I am getting. I plan to keep it 8-10 years so may even skip 6th gen. Got my loan per-approval last week with my credit union 0.99%/60. Looks like dealers in Chicago area are more willing to discount 2015 inventory, Just got the OTD quote on SR5 Premium $35200 (includes all doc fees).

It's hilarious how butt hurt you remain over Toyota dealers in Chicago hating you. If you don't like the tires, I'll be more than willing to pick up a set of AT20s in pristine condition for cheap once mine wear out.

Recall that I'm a blind man with citations and you're the one eyed man without citations following me!

 

[grammatik2015]

It's hilarious how butt hurt you remain over Toyota dealers in Chicago hating you. If you don't like the tires, I'll be more than willing to pick up a set of AT20s in pristine condition for cheap once mine wear out.

Recall that I'm a blind man with citations and you're the one eyed man without citations following me!

You missed my point of 4R prices dropping, over $1000 now from 3-4 months ago. I think $35k is a half decent price, I think that there is realistic chance now of getting SR5 Premium for $34.5/Trail $35.8.
So you still drive on stock AT20s????? Be safe! These tires are total garbage, I will gladly sell you my stock tires once I have my 4R.
Both JGC Limited (18s) and JC get great OEM tire, 4R gets garbage. All 3 cost about the same, that is my point.

 

[mo_mo]

You missed my point of 4R prices dropping, over $1000 now from 3-4 months ago. I think $35k is a half decent price, I think that there is realistic chance now of getting SR5 Premium for $34.5/Trail $35.8.
So you still drive on stock AT20s????? Be safe! These tires are total garbage, I will gladly sell you my stock tires once I have my 4R.
Both JGC Limited (18s) and JC get great OEM tire, 4R gets garbage. All 3 cost about the same, that is my point.

Lol. I think you missed the real point about tires. Tires are very specialized pieces of equipment and every design has a trade off. If I were near you and were in need of a new set of highway tires, then I would have no problem picking up the AT20s as they have worked well for my commuting needs.

Just keep waiting another 10 years. I promise the prices will drop even more!