Fourwheeler.com 2015 Fourwheeler of the Year

[1engineer]

As much as I hate 4R modern tech/mech 'deficiencies', this is why I am getting. I plan to keep it 8-10 years so may even skip 6th gen. Got my loan per-approval last week with my credit union 0.99%/60. Looks like dealers in Chicago area are more willing to discount 2015 inventory, Just got the OTD quote on SR5 Premium $35200 (includes all doc fees).

Man, why are you GETTING a 4Runner after hating on it so much? Seriously.

You don't like the tech, tires or efficiency. Why buy it?

To clear up a few things:
The stock OEM tires are just fine for pavement. Show me data on the dangers of those tires. Tires in general are the most subjective wear parts on a car. My choice for tires is not the same a a guy 3K miles away in SoCal who never takes it off road. Think for a minute: Let's say you are the engineer in charge of tires for Toyota. You have written the tire specs for the 4Runner and have submitted those specs to all the tire manufacturers. They all come back and, just for grins, they all cost the same! Your choices are:

The current Dunlop tire
BFG KO2
Cooper AT3
Cooper ST MAXX
Michelin MS2
Nitto G2
Goodyear Duratrac

As a Toyota engineer you have to choose the best one for the majority of buyers and their intended use in the most common environment. In other words you have to do what engineers do every day and that's compromise. After you analyze the data you find that 99% of the 4Runner buyers never take it off road. 60% of them live where it never snows. 70% of them have no clue of the differences between an all season and an all terrain tire and don't care. 85% of the buyers really care that the mpg is over 20 so a light tire is critical. I don't know what the real numbers are but that's probably close.

So now - what tire do you choose? Obviously the one that rides the quietest and best on pavement which is the OEM tire currently offered. No brainer. Critical thinker my ass.

 

[Jetboy]

You missed my point of 4R prices dropping, over $1000 now from 3-4 months ago. I think $35k is a half decent price, I think that there is realistic chance now of getting SR5 Premium for $34.5/Trail $35.8.
So you still drive on stock AT20s????? Be safe! These tires are total garbage, I will gladly sell you my stock tires once I have my 4R.
Both JGC Limited (18s) and JC get great OEM tire, 4R gets garbage. All 3 cost about the same, that is my point.

I think you're confusing you local dealership prices with some reflection of national sales prices. It's pretty much been that price all along. SR5 4x4 are $33.5k. SR5 Premium are $36k. I bought a trail premium with KDSS for $37.5 end of last year for an early '15 model year.

And they hold their value much better than a used JGC. 2010 model year 4runner SR5 with 75k miles are about $26k used. 2010 JGC base model with 75k miles is $15k. ( I spec'd both out identically). That's a pretty big difference. Sometimes you pay a little more up front for a better quality product.

As far as gas goes - over 75k miles you'll use about 540 gallons more gas in a 4runner, at $3/gal that's $1,620. As compared to $11,000 in depreciation difference. Which one seems like the better value to you?

 

[grammatik2015]

Toyota DOES make exactly what you want. You're looking for a car with big tires (JGC), not a truck with extra seats (4runner). Toyota happens to build a car with big tires that's exactly the same size as the 4runner. It's called a highlander. The JGC and Highlander are much closer competitors. Unibody station wagons with tall seating. Neither are intended or will ever be more than mildly offroad worthy, but they are great for road trips and campgrounds.

I have both an RX 350 (nicer highlander with more power) and a 4runner. The RX350 has more tech, nicer interior, better quality, etc. than the JGC and gets 22mpg combined. It basically does everything better than a JGC and is a much more comparable vehicle. What exactly is it you're looking for?

RX350 is good car, not a Highlander but a great CC, it even used to have a purse tray (not sure about newer models). Highlander, looked at it and its a great family DD car but sooooo boring. Agreed, you can compare JGC to Highlander.
My needs were:
1)DD with full time 4x4/AWD that is somewhat off-road capable in a pinch (JGC/Subaru etc). JGC came on top after all was done.
2) DD under $40k that is comfortable and capable stock off-road vehicle (2-4 weeks/year in Colorado mountains, 3 week Utah trip planed for next year) that I will feel comfortable owning for next 8-10 years. And field of candidates was reduced to one choice: 4Runner.
I will not be doing things like Black Bear Pass, but some other mild trails/passes. 4R will allow me to finally score some of those CO 14ers (count stands at 15 now, some multiple times) with 4x4 trail heads and avoid 5+mile dirt road hikes.
4R 5th gen is a dated (10+years, counting development time) mech/tech platform. 5-speed tans, engine, SR/TE key takes me back to 1990. This is a fact. 6th gen will address a lot of this issues and give us a modern 4R. I was trying to figure out a way to NOT get NEW 5th gen and wait for 6th gen. Used 5th gen? Slim pickings, cant justify paying $30.5k for 2012 SR5 with 40k on it. Might as well get new, better rates and no maintenance/repair concerns... Outback? Looked for lower mileage (under 50k) V6 (do not want CVT), could not find one that will work last time I checked.

If you can suggest 4R alternative, I will consider it. I could not come up with alternative till this tread put an idea in my head. I would not buy JCTH (unproven platform), but a $320/$340/month 12k/15k $0 down lease ($350 in doc fees)..... and 6th gen in 3 years....

 

[Whiplash Willy]

4R 5th gen is a dated (10+years, counting development time) mech/tech platform. 5-speed tans, engine, SR/TE key takes me back to 1990. .

Can you please elaborate on how the Dual VVTI 1GR-FE, that was released in 2010, is a "Dated" engine, other then if just feels slow to you?

You might want to read up on the engine before ASSuming it is dated.

-All Aluminum V6
-Variable Cam Timing on Intake and Exhaust cams
-Self Adjusting Hydraulic lifters

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fjcruiserforums.com%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2Fdealer-negotiations-test-driving%2F420210d1425000110-buy-not-buy-1gr-fe_engine.pdf&ei=TetlVZCSA9KyogT6-ICAAg&usg=AFQjCNFY-KNUWxOQSo1lzVnRhp1r4EcDWQ&sig2=02AcOLfen19gE4oTut0gOw&bvm=bv.93990622,d.cGU&cad=rja

Personally, with the direction the automotive industry is going, I prefer dated and less complex drivetrains. Part of the reason I bought the 4runner is that it doesn't have a ton of new tech BS to break on me. Would you rather have a CVT or some 9-speed weak trans, in-place of that time tested 5-speed slushbox?

I would even prefer some aspects of the 4runner to be even more dated, like manual locking hubs, instead of ADD, a Manual Transmission, and a manual transfer case.

Even though our 4runners are dated in some aspects, they do have some modern creature comforts, that aren't all that flashy, but just work, and do their job well, like Homelink, Bluetooth Integration, Backup Cam, Rear Parking Sensors.

 

[jam46283]

4R 5th gen is a dated (10+years, counting development time) mech/tech platform. 5-speed tans, engine, SR/TE key takes me back to 1990. This is a fact.

A fact eh.. If you spent half the time researching the truck as you do bashing it on the internet you'd know that the only major component carried over from the last generation is the chassis, and even then it was reinforced in areas that have proved to be weak spots thru years of abuse.

 

[Belaire23]

I love how on the website when they are choosing the winners the photo of the 4runner in second place is jumping off a damn sand dune while in the winner photo its the JGC leisurely driving through a puddle of water. Yep real off road prowess right there. You need to waste your money on a heep that the only water itll ever get you through is a heavy rain on the way to drop the kids off.

 

[grammatik2015]

Man, why are you GETTING a 4Runner after hating on it so much? Seriously.

You don't like the tech, tires or efficiency. Why buy it?

To clear up a few things:
The stock OEM tires are just fine for pavement. Show me data on the dangers of those tires. Tires in general are the most subjective wear parts on a car. My choice for tires is not the same a a guy 3K miles away in SoCal who never takes it off road. Think for a minute: Let's say you are the engineer in charge of tires for Toyota. You have written the tire specs for the 4Runner and have submitted those specs to all the tire manufacturers. They all come back and, just for grins, they all cost the same! Your choices are:

The current Dunlop tire
BFG KO2
Cooper AT3
Cooper ST MAXX
Michelin MS2
Nitto G2
Goodyear Duratrac

As a Toyota engineer you have to choose the best one for the majority of buyers and their intended use in the most common environment. In other words you have to do what engineers do every day and that's compromise. After you analyze the data you find that 99% of the 4Runner buyers never take it off road. 60% of them live where it never snows. 70% of them have no clue of the differences between an all season and an all terrain tire and don't care. 85% of the buyers really care that the mpg is over 20 so a light tire is critical. I don't know what the real numbers are but that's probably close.

So now - what tire do you choose? Obviously the one that rides the quietest and best on pavement which is the OEM tire currently offered. No brainer. Critical thinker my ass.

You forgot to add the biggest factor in OEM tire choice: $$$$$
Your points are valid but for SR5/Limited but Trail gets a DRY pavement tires because of MPG concerns???? Toyota will not address MPG issues with tire choice.
And to make it clear: I am not talking about hardcore off-road OEM standard tires but something decent like what JCTH gets.

 

[grammatik2015]

A fact eh.. If you spent half the time researching the truck as you do bashing it on the internet you'd know that the only major component carried over from the last generation is the chassis, and even then it was reinforced in areas that have proved to be weak spots thru years of abuse.

5th Gen arrived in 2009 as 2010 model, correct? Was this engine platform used in any other model prior to that? Say Prado?
And it took Toyota engineers 2 months to develop, build tooling, produce engines and placed them in a finished vehicle. If this is what happened, I was wrong 4R powertrain platform is only 6 years old.
FYI major endiniiring/design decisions are made early in development process, hence my 10+ year comment

Sometimes I think every time part of 4R is plastidipped it lowers owners IQ by a point.

 

[Swarty]

I'm torn.

Personally, with the direction the automotive industry is going, I prefer dated and less complex drivetrains. Part of the reason I bought the 4runner is that it doesn't have a ton of new tech BS to break on me. Would you rather have a CVT or some 9-speed weak trans, in-place of that time tested 5-speed slushbox?

I would even prefer some aspects of the 4runner to be even more dated, like manual locking hubs, instead of ADD, a Manual Transmission, and a manual transfer case.

Toyota did great leaving the 4runner BOF and durable as all get out and the engine is definitely a modern design. But...
You lost me on the manually locking hubs and the manual transfer case. :noidea:
There is a reason no one sells manually locking hubs anymore, They wouldn't sell enough 4runner's to cover shipping costs. The trail and SR5 do come with a manual transfer case.

Time tested is great but seriously Toyota made perfectly reliable 6 speed transmissions for the Tundra in 2007. Why not the 2010 4Runner? Tacoma gets a 6 speed auto next year, why didn't the mid cycle refresh include a new transmission?

There are some mechanical things Toyota could have done better: The transmission is one. Have a "sport" button for the engine and shift mapping. Being so closed up about the ECU in general. If they aren't going to make a Supercharger at least let others work on it.

 

[1engineer]

You forgot to add the biggest factor in OEM tire choice: $$$$$
Your points are valid but for SR5/Limited but Trail gets a DRY pavement tires because of MPG concerns???? Toyota will not address MPG issues with tire choice.
And to make it clear: I am not talking about hardcore off-road OEM standard tires but something decent like what JCTH gets.

Pretty sure the tires come with grooves and not slicks so it is not a dry road tire lol. Again, no matter what tire you put on it from factory somebody will *****. Most driving is on pavement. They put pavement tires on it. And if you think they wouldn't use tires to gain efficiency then you are sadly mistaken. If they can gain a 1/2 mpg with only tires thats huge. Do you actually think that TE models are bought to use off road by the majority of buyers? No way. That's like saying the guys who buy a TRD PRO will go off road. Only a few ever go off road regardless of model and most of them post here.

 

[wfo9]

Can you please elaborate on how the Dual VVTI 1GR-FE, that was released in 2010, is a "Dated" engine, other then if just feels slow to you?

Nothing wrong with the 1grfe, it is solid and reliable and gets the job done, but it is out of date for 2015 standards.

Just compare it to the GM lgx v6. This thing is state of the art. Only a 3.6L and NA makes 355 hp/290tq. Turbo version makes 464/445tq

GM 3.6 Liter V6 LGX Engine Info, Specs, Wiki | GM Authority

You simply can't deny the tech in that motor. Hope Toyta wakes up soon.

 

[grammatik2015]

Pretty sure the tires come with grooves and not slicks so it is not a dry road tire lol. Again, no matter what tire you put on it from factory somebody will *****. Most driving is on pavement. They put pavement tires on it. And if you think they wouldn't use tires to gain efficiency then you are sadly mistaken. If they can gain a 1/2 mpg with only tires thats huge. Do you actually think that TE models are bought to use off road by the majority of buyers? No way. That's like saying the guys who buy a TRD PRO will go off road. Only a few ever go off road regardless of model and most of them post here.

Let me try again: dry pavement = decent performance on dry, wet traction will cause to loose a few hair, any snow and pray.
Why call it 'Trail Edition'??? Guess some sarcastic TOYO exec has a good laugh about combining KDSS with garbage tires lol. Engineers did not make this choice.

read review, most critical reviews from TOYO owners

http://www.tirerack.com/survey/Surv...H/T+D689&fromTireDetail=true&tirePageLocQty=#

 

[Jetboy]

Nothing wrong with the 1grfe, it is solid and reliable and gets the job done, but it is out of date for 2015 standards.

Just compare it to the GM lgx v6. This thing is state of the art. Only a 3.6L and NA makes 355 hp/290tq. Turbo version makes 464/445tq

GM 3.6 Liter V6 LGX Engine Info, Specs, Wiki | GM Authority

You simply can't deny the tech in that motor. Hope Toyta wakes up soon.

The 1 gr make over 400 for lotus. Without a turbo. The life span is s lot shorter though.

The lgx has nothing on the 2gr. It's been making 310 hp and 280ft lbs for 13 years. AND it doesn't need a top end rebuild or cleaning every 100k like every other direct injection motor. I suspect it's due for a tune soon. Probably a jump right up to 350 ish.

Not to mention the ability to move from Otto to Atkinson and back. It's easily a decade ahead of the GM engine.

 

[mo_mo]

5th Gen arrived in 2009 as 2010 model, correct? Was this engine platform used in any other model prior to that? Say Prado?
And it took Toyota engineers 2 months to develop, build tooling, produce engines and placed them in a finished vehicle. If this is what happened, I was wrong 4R powertrain platform is only 6 years old.
FYI major endiniiring/design decisions are made early in development process, hence my 10+ year comment

Sometimes I think every time part of 4R is plastidipped it lowers owners IQ by a point.

(dude... that spelling of engineering is mesmerizing...the 'e's replaced by 'i's and 'g' replaced by 'd'...they aren't anywhere near each other on a standard keyboard).

Ah yes. By my definition, the 4Runner design is 77 years old! Of course we’ll use your measuring stick since it is 100% accurate. Or maybe let’s go even further and not go by the birth of Toyota but by the invention of the wheel or maybe fire. It’s been in ‘development’ ever since. Lol. No one is forcing you the all seeing to follow the blind and get a 4Runner.

You forgot to add the biggest factor in OEM tire choice: $$$$$
Your points are valid but for SR5/Limited but Trail gets a DRY pavement tires because of MPG concerns???? Toyota will not address MPG issues with tire choice.
And to make it clear: I am not talking about hardcore off-road OEM standard tires but something decent like what JCTH gets.

Yes, MPG concerns. Do you know what the MPG hit is from a highway passenger tire to an A/T LT tire for a vehicle like this (keep the same size)? It's extremely important for CAFE requirements and I don't want the Jeep transmission problems! When your vehicle is broken down it doesn't matter what tire you have on it.

Let me try again: dry pavement = decent performance on dry, wet traction will cause to loose a few hair, any snow and pray.
Why call it 'Trail Edition'??? Guess some sarcastic TOYO exec has a good laugh about combining KDSS with garbage tires lol. Engineers did not make this choice.

read review, most critical reviews from TOYO owners

http://www.tirerack.com/survey/Surv...H/T+D689&fromTireDetail=true&tirePageLocQty=#

Oh man. You’re still waving that tired tire flag around. Here’s a link to your magical JCTH (How do you like the stock Trailhawk tires? - 2014 - 2015 Jeep Cherokee Forums). Note how many want a new tire either more or less aggressive, better highway, less noise, MT, whatever. Enjoy!

You’ll be so much happier with the Jeep! Follow that crowd. They aren't blind and have lead the way to the promised land. Go follow them to the light!

 

[STX4Runner]

Let me try again: dry pavement = decent performance on dry, wet traction will cause to loose a few hair, any snow and pray.
Why call it 'Trail Edition'??? Guess some sarcastic TOYO exec has a good laugh about combining KDSS with garbage tires lol. Engineers did not make this choice.

read review, most critical reviews from TOYO owners

http://www.tirerack.com/survey/Surv...H/T+D689&fromTireDetail=true&tirePageLocQty=#

Jeep puts BFG Mud Terrains on the Rubicon and most people who use them heavily off road remove them for bigger tires. Look at all the people on here with 285s. You think they would have kept stock size Duratracs or BFG MTs? I'm glad Toyota put street tires on it. That way I'm not paying some stupid price for "premium" off road tires I'm gonna get rid of anyway.

 

[grammatik2015]

Man, why are you GETTING a 4Runner after hating on it so much? Seriously.

You don't like the tech, tires or efficiency. Why buy it?

It's a love/hate relationship lol. Looking for something with a 8-10 years ownership horizon.
I want something that
- can get to a trailhead so I can add another 14er to my list without hiking 5+miles on a road dirt road and turning a 6-8 hour hike into 9-12 hour hike.
- need V6. New Outback V6s use CVT will pass on it for now.
- decent DD with 18+MPG (my current average),
- decent cargo space (~60cft seats folded) for dog plus gear
- sub $40k with leather seats and SR
- 4 doors
- not a Wrangler
So this lead me to 4R, trust me it was not the first name on my list. If you have another suggestion, please help.

I think 6th gen will address a lot of, let's call them 'wish list items' of forum users here. Not all will be happy but a huge step forward.

I just may have to explore leasing JCT for next 3 years to hold me over till 6th gen is firmly established. At $320-$340/month $0 down, this may be an option. Saw it at the dealership when we were getting JGC and was impressed by initial quality' but never event considered getting one, just standard dealer time killing while wife's car paper work was getting ready. Was thinking of it as more like a toy with some fancy off-road looking trims that is as capable as a Prius off-road. Guess that assessment was not 100% correct.

 

[grammatik2015]

(dude... that spelling of engineering is mesmerizing...the 'e's replaced by 'i's and 'g' replaced by 'd'...they aren't anywhere near each other on a standard keyboard).

Ah yes. By my definition, the 4Runner design is 77 years old! Of course we’ll use your measuring stick since it is 100% accurate. Or maybe let’s go even further and not go by the birth of Toyota but by the invention of the wheel or maybe fire. It’s been in ‘development’ ever since. Lol. No one is forcing you the all seeing to follow the blind and get a 4Runner.


Yes, MPG concerns. Do you know what the MPG hit is from a highway passenger tire to an A/T LT tire for a vehicle like this (keep the same size)? It's extremely important for CAFE requirements and I don't want the Jeep transmission problems! When your vehicle is broken down it doesn't matter what tire you have on it.



Oh man. You’re still waving that tired tire flag around. Here’s a link to your magical JCTH (How do you like the stock Trailhawk tires? - 2014 - 2015 Jeep Cherokee Forums). Note how many want a new tire either more or less aggressive, better highway, less noise, MT, whatever. Enjoy!

You’ll be so much happier with the Jeep! Follow that crowd. They aren't blind and have lead the way to the promised land. Go follow them to the light!

And do not forget to add that 4R cured your 'male problem' and heep gave your neighbor cancer.
spelling? realy??? got this one? good catch will send you a can of plastidip, if you promise that this time you will use it in a well ventilated area.

Now a questions for you MOMO:
1. Is this Iphone board? So much fanboying could be confusing
2. If not Iphone, hope its not 4R-ISIS because I have this 4R cartoon I want to post here but like to keep my head.
3. Is it true that 4R exhaust is pure mountain summer breeze?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

...

Now a questions for you MOMO:
1. Is this Iphone board? So much fanboying could be confusing
2. If not Iphone, hope its not 4R-ISIS because I have this 4R cartoon I want to post here but like to keep my head.
3. Is it true that 4R exhaust is pure mountain summer breeze?

-Unfortunately there are those that stray from the path of righteousness and partake in the vile devil's blasphemy of Apple

-We're a more civilized terrorist group seeking to eradicate all Prius and non-Toyota CUVs, ISIS wishes it was as tough as us.

-Yes, the engineers at Toyota have found a way to have the catalytic converter create perfect Mt. Fuji mountain air from a lovely summer's day; one of the many things that just makes Toyota better. :naughty:

 

[wfo9]

The 1 gr make over 400 for lotus. Without a turbo. The life span is s lot shorter though.

The lgx has nothing on the 2gr. It's been making 310 hp and 280ft lbs for 13 years. AND it doesn't need a top end rebuild or cleaning every 100k like every other direct injection motor. I suspect it's due for a tune soon. Probably a jump right up to 350 ish.

Not to mention the ability to move from Otto to Atkinson and back. It's easily a decade ahead of the GM engine.

A decade ahead, LOL. I'm not going to bother to argue. I just hope Toyota comes out with power plants similar to the competition soon. The new Tacoma motor (7GR) should tell the story. So far the silence is not sounding too good, but maybe they are hiding the numbers because they are so good :loco:

 

[mo_mo]

And do not forget to add that 4R cured your 'male problem' and heep gave your neighbor cancer.
spelling? realy??? got this one? good catch will send you a can of plastidip, if you promise that this time you will use it in a well ventilated area.

Now a questions for you MOMO:
1. Is this Iphone board? So much fanboying could be confusing
2. If not Iphone, hope its not 4R-ISIS because I have this 4R cartoon I want to post here but like to keep my head.
3. Is it true that 4R exhaust is pure mountain summer breeze?

Lol. I'm pretty sure that plastidip can would show up empty. :kiss:

Is this you on most days (caution due to language). Man those tires are awesome!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CuTXUcoGdhw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's unicorn farts when the rear window is down

It's a love/hate relationship lol. Looking for something with a 8-10 years ownership horizon.
I want something that
- can get to a trailhead so I can add another 14er to my list without hiking 5+miles on a road dirt road and turning a 6-8 hour hike into 9-12 hour hike.
- need V6. New Outback V6s use CVT will pass on it for now.
- decent DD with 18+MPG (my current average),
- decent cargo space (~60cft seats folded) for dog plus gear
- sub $40k with leather seats and SR
- 4 doors
- not a Wrangler
So this lead me to 4R, trust me it was not the first name on my list. If you have another suggestion, please help.

I think 6th gen will address a lot of, let's call them 'wish list items' of forum users here. Not all will be happy but a huge step forward.

I just may have to explore leasing JCT for next 3 years to hold me over till 6th gen is firmly established. At $320-$340/month $0 down, this may be an option. Saw it at the dealership when we were getting JGC and was impressed by initial quality' but never event considered getting one, just standard dealer time killing while wife's car paper work was getting ready. Was thinking of it as more like a toy with some fancy off-road looking trims that is as capable as a Prius off-road. Guess that assessment was not 100% correct.

Honda Pilot might be right down your alley! Honda Honda Honda! Is that fanboi enough for you?