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Non-KDSS?
Fox2.5 c/o and 2.5 Tundra rears with rr
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Non-KDSS?
Here's what Sonoran steel says about it.
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Old 05-09-2018, 03:41 PM #1
sschaefer3
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New Sonoran Steel Product: KDSS High Articulation/Long Travel Trac/PanHard bar
High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar 2010+ 4Runner with KDSS - $395.00 : Sonoran Steel, Sonoran Steel Custom Metal Fabrication L.L.C. Custom Toyota Truck Parts
In 2012 we bought a brand New Trail 4Runner with KDSS. While the bulk of or work at that time was with 3rd gen 4Runners (1996-2002), I knew this was one heck of a truck and spent years dreaming up parts to make it better. After installing our current offering and other manufactures suspension offering for these trucks, there was one thing that I felt everyone dropped the ball on.
The Trac/PanHard bar for the KDSS trucks. We all know that the Jeep Wrangler and the American full size pickups with straight front axles had Trac/PanHard bends in them to dodge around things for many years. These bars are all sand cast and difficult to manufacture on small scale, which the KDSS market it.
After working on this for literally years we found a solution. The original prototype was fabricated out of cut tube and zigzagged all over the place. It was incredibly time consuming to make and frankly looked ugly. But at that point we had a pattern that cleared everything. Full stuff with coils and shocks removed and full drop with shock removed. We now knew exactly how far the KDSS bar would let the suspension move, uninhibited bay the trac bar.
So finally how do we actually make this thing? Waterjet is how. Starting with a 3 foot by 3.5" of Cold Rolled Solid Steel Bar, the Waterjet carves this bar out of solid 1" thick cold rolled steel! The entire bar is a consistent 1" x 1" solid cold rolled steel. It is heavy. On the 4th gen 4Runner, Toyota used 1" round solid hot rolled round stock. So this is not a new idea with the size and material used in this application. The ends are custom polyurethane bushings made for us by Daystar in Phoenix. They have grease grooves and we have made several improvements to the mold over the last 8 years (2010-2018) as we have always made a straight tube Trac/PanHard bar for the 4th/5th Gen 4Runners and the FJC. The adjustable end is a huge 7/8"-16 grade 8 threaded rod into a tube adapter made by Ballistic Fab in Tucson, hollow end of the bar is 1.5" x 1.5" x .120 wall Cold Rolled Square Tube, finally the same bushing setup as the other end.
The bar will run rear shocks 1.5" longer extended than anything currently offered off the shelf for a 5th gen 4Runner. We are going to work on that with Radflo.
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:43 AM #2
borfoo3
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Interesting.. So how will this affect down travel on an extended shock setup? An extra 1.5"?
Also, would this in any way allow more load on the KDSS piston on hard articulation or down travel?
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:39 AM #3
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Looks really close to the diff. Is it too close to still allow for rear diff armor?
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:11 AM #4
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So confuse I thought that it was the KDSS system itself that limited droop on the rears, i.e. not because something hits something else but because the pistons themselves reach maximum extension?
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:11 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveNJ View Post
Looks really close to the diff. Is it too close to still allow for rear diff armor?
Too close for diff armor.
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:12 AM #6
sschaefer3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nils.walk View Post
So confuse I thought that it was the KDSS system itself that limited droop on the rears, i.e. not because something hits something else but because the pistons themselves reach maximum extension?
Well now you can see a photo of KDSS at actual full droop.
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:16 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borfoo3 View Post
Interesting.. So how will this affect down travel on an extended shock setup? An extra 1.5"?
Yes an extra 1.5" over all the off the shelf aftermarket shocks, but most of those were being limited by hitting the bar. So they were not getting all of the extended travel to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borfoo3 View Post
Also, would this in any way allow more load on the KDSS piston on hard articulation or down travel?
No, because the static, non-moving link is the limiting factor. Thought about making a longer non-moving link, but then the KDSS would not work correctly as plunger would no longer apply the correct pressure. So this is as good as it gets.
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Old 05-09-2018, 03:41 PM #1
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New Sonoran Steel Product: KDSS High Articulation/Long Travel Trac/PanHard bar
High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar 2010+ 4Runner with KDSS - $395.00 : Sonoran Steel, Sonoran Steel Custom Metal Fabrication L.L.C. Custom Toyota Truck Parts
In 2012 we bought a brand New Trail 4Runner with KDSS. While the bulk of or work at that time was with 3rd gen 4Runners (1996-2002), I knew this was one heck of a truck and spent years dreaming up parts to make it better. After installing our current offering and other manufactures suspension offering for these trucks, there was one thing that I felt everyone dropped the ball on.
The Trac/PanHard bar for the KDSS trucks. We all know that the Jeep Wrangler and the American full size pickups with straight front axles had Trac/PanHard bends in them to dodge around things for many years. These bars are all sand cast and difficult to manufacture on small scale, which the KDSS market it.
After working on this for literally years we found a solution. The original prototype was fabricated out of cut tube and zigzagged all over the place. It was incredibly time consuming to make and frankly looked ugly. But at that point we had a pattern that cleared everything. Full stuff with coils and shocks removed and full drop with shock removed. We now knew exactly how far the KDSS bar would let the suspension move, uninhibited bay the trac bar.
So finally how do we actually make this thing? Waterjet is how. Starting with a 3 foot by 3.5" of Cold Rolled Solid Steel Bar, the Waterjet carves this bar out of solid 1" thick cold rolled steel! The entire bar is a consistent 1" x 1" solid cold rolled steel. It is heavy. On the 4th gen 4Runner, Toyota used 1" round solid hot rolled round stock. So this is not a new idea with the size and material used in this application. The ends are custom polyurethane bushings made for us by Daystar in Phoenix. They have grease grooves and we have made several improvements to the mold over the last 8 years (2010-2018) as we have always made a straight tube Trac/PanHard bar for the 4th/5th Gen 4Runners and the FJC. The adjustable end is a huge 7/8"-16 grade 8 threaded rod into a tube adapter made by Ballistic Fab in Tucson, hollow end of the bar is 1.5" x 1.5" x .120 wall Cold Rolled Square Tube, finally the same bushing setup as the other end.
The bar will run rear shocks 1.5" longer extended than anything currently offered off the shelf for a 5th gen 4Runner. We are going to work on that with Radflo.
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:43 AM #2
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Interesting.. So how will this affect down travel on an extended shock setup? An extra 1.5"?
Also, would this in any way allow more load on the KDSS piston on hard articulation or down travel?
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:39 AM #3
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Looks really close to the diff. Is it too close to still allow for rear diff armor?
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:11 AM #4
nils.walk
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So confuse I thought that it was the KDSS system itself that limited droop on the rears, i.e. not because something hits something else but because the pistons themselves reach maximum extension?
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:11 AM #5
sschaefer3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveNJ View Post
Looks really close to the diff. Is it too close to still allow for rear diff armor?
Too close for diff armor.
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:12 AM #6
sschaefer3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nils.walk View Post
So confuse I thought that it was the KDSS system itself that limited droop on the rears, i.e. not because something hits something else but because the pistons themselves reach maximum extension?
Well now you can see a photo of KDSS at actual full droop.
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:16 AM #7
sschaefer3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borfoo3 View Post
Interesting.. So how will this affect down travel on an extended shock setup? An extra 1.5"?
Yes an extra 1.5" over all the off the shelf aftermarket shocks, but most of those were being limited by hitting the bar. So they were not getting all of the extended travel to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borfoo3 View Post
Also, would this in any way allow more load on the KDSS piston on hard articulation or down travel?
No, because the static, non-moving link is the limiting factor. Thought about making a longer non-moving link, but then the KDSS would not work correctly as plunger would no longer apply the correct pressure. So this is as good as it gets.
So basically, from what I understand the aTundra shocks will provide 2extra inches of droop, however, without the Sonoran steel panhard bar the articulation is limited because the static link hits the panhard. So with kdss we may get more droop but not the whole 2 inches.
If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me as I'm bout to put the Tundra shocks in the rear on.
If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me as I'm bout to put the Tundra shocks in the rear on.
honda250xtitan
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do they work on stock to 1.5 lifted rear springs? do you need a taller bump stop to keep the shocks from bottoming out? so you lose bump travel?
mikey's2010SR5
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Non-KDSS and no sway bars either.
Depends on the springs free height. I am running the Icon Overland springs and have not had a problem.
I am running a 1" bump stop spacer.
Member stillbreathin cut his bracket in this post while others have cut the kdss bracket. I'm looking to cut the Fox bracket. Here's the post.
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/208821-fox-dsc-reservoir-install-pics.html#post2168113
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/208821-fox-dsc-reservoir-install-pics.html#post2168113
Most people are running a 2in rear spring. A taller 1in. Bump extension is recommended.
MAST4R
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Info on the net seems conflicting. I know Terraflex ads a 0.5" spacer for the rear bumps with their 1" rear spring spacer on the Falcon shocks.
OTOH, Accutune says 2-3" rear lift with 0.5" bump stop extension typically. But 1" bump stop extension if using the Tundra shocks:
What Size Tacoma/4Runner Shocks Do You Need? | AccuTune Off-Road
I have the Eibach 1" rear and no bump stop extension. It seems like it should not be needed for 1.5" either. But, then again, see Terraflex.
The old Pro rear shock (5160) provides an extra 1.4" rear travel (per Toyota) and that seems to be right for my Icon 2.0 rears as well.
