Help Understanding Lockers

[Thorgan112]

So I have never truly understood locking differentials. I did a little bit of research today and reading and have a better grasp on them now. I have a 2002 so I have a e locker for the center differential, which basically spins the front and rear differentials at the same speed as opposed to the rear locker which spins each "wheel" in the rear at the same speed. So assuming what I just said is right and I didnt mess that part up, here is my question:

I am thinking about installing the arb air lockers. Now I know I would need to get a compressor first. If installing a front and rear aftermarket locker, do I need to remove the factory center differential e locker? I am getting confused I think because of their locations. In my mind those are three spots for lockers, front center and rear. But I am almost certain my ideology is wrong and "center" is just called center because it locks the two differential at the same speed. anyone care to clear up my knowledge?

 

[ARC]

So I have never truly understood locking differentials. I did a little bit of research today and reading and have a better grasp on them now. I have a 2002 so I have a e locker for the center differential, which basically spins the front and rear differentials at the same speed as opposed to the rear locker which spins each "wheel" in the rear at the same speed. So assuming what I just said is right and I didnt mess that part up, here is my question:

I am thinking about installing the arb air lockers. Now I know I would need to get a compressor first. If installing a front and rear aftermarket locker, do I need to remove the factory center differential e locker? I am getting confused I think because of their locations. In my mind those are three spots for lockers, front center and rear. But I am almost certain my ideology is wrong and "center" is just called center because it locks the two differential at the same speed. anyone care to clear up my knowledge?

Your center locker switches you from what is commonly referred to as All Wheel Drive to what is commonly referred to as Four Wheel Drive. It has no effect on your axle differentials which is where you are planning to put the ARB's.

Why do you think you want to install lockers?

 

[Thorgan112]

Your center locker switches you from what is commonly referred to as All Wheel Drive to what is commonly referred to as Four Wheel Drive. It has no effect on your axle differentials which is where you are planning to put the ARB's.

Why do you think you want to install lockers?

I live in a beach community and do a lot of driving on the sand, some of it is pretty deep sand. I am also trying to get my rig setup nicely to go do some trails in Virginia with my cousin. The lockers would prob help me greatly. I also need to do the Andy 2.0 mod so the damn trac stops cutting off power in the sand.

 

[ARC]

If you have the cash then go for it. Doing well in the sand is much more about tire pressure in my opinion. You might consider regearing while you are in the Diffs.

 

[KidVermicious]

Your center locker switches you from what is commonly referred to as All Wheel Drive to what is commonly referred to as Four Wheel Drive. It has no effect on your axle differentials which is where you are planning to put the ARB's.

You guys have to stop calling it All Wheel Drive. It is not All Wheel Drive, it is fulltime 4WD and they are not the same thing. Here, OP, watch this right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN6-gCxI60g

Now that you're up to speed on the difference between 4Runners with Part Time 4WD (no center diff) and 4Runners with Multimode 4WD (locking center), here's a couple videos that may help you understand exactly how a differential works. This is crucial to understanding what's going on in your axles and transfer case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI (skip to 1:50 or so)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIGvhvOhLHU

Good to go? Ok, so the differential in your transfer case is, for our purposes here, exactly the same as the differentials on your front and rear axles (it's not exactly the same, but the ways that it's different are not important here). A truck with Part Time 4WD should not use 4WD very often on tacky or high traction surfaces, because of the risk of driveline binding and increased stress on the 4WD components. Toyota decided to add the option of a center differential to some trucks, and it does the same thing as the axle differential, that is, allow the two outputs to rotate at different speeds, and they called it Multimode 4WD. An axle differential allows the axles to rotate at different speeds and relieve driveline stress, the transfer case differential (or center diff) allows the driveshafts to rotate at different speeds and relieve driveline stress. A center diff has a really big drawback though - just like a 2wd vehicle can get stuck spinning just one wheel, a 4wd vehicle with an open center diff can get stuck spinning just one wheel. So Toyota designed the center diff on 4Runners and FJ Cruisers to have a locking mechanism, and it's effect is exactly the same as locking an axle differential - the two outputs are no longer allowed to rotate at different speeds. You've got the best of both worlds - you have an open center differential that allows you to use 4WD on pavement without risk when you want it, and you have a locked center differential (which is the same as no center differential) giving you offroad traction equal to a traditional part-time 4WD truck, when you want it.

You do not have AWD . You have full time 4WD with a locking center diff, with various electronic stability enhancers that make it do a fair impression of AWD, but anybody who thinks their truck is AWD needs to go drive a Subaru on a skid pad.

Oh, and a locker won't help much in the sand. Get good tires, air them down to 20 PSI, lock the center diff and go. If you still bog down, drop to 10 PSI.

 

[csp]

Just posting to echo what KidVermicious said. He's spot on with that reply.

 

[Thorgan112]

You guys have to stop calling it All Wheel Drive. It is not All Wheel Drive, it is fulltime 4WD and they are not the same thing. Here, OP, watch this right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN6-gCxI60g

Now that you're up to speed on the difference between 4Runners with Part Time 4WD (no center diff) and 4Runners with Multimode 4WD (locking center), here's a couple videos that may help you understand exactly how a differential works. This is crucial to understanding what's going on in your axles and transfer case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI (skip to 1:50 or so)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIGvhvOhLHU

Good to go? Ok, so the differential in your transfer case is, for our purposes here, exactly the same as the differentials on your front and rear axles (it's not exactly the same, but the ways that it's different are not important here). A truck with Part Time 4WD should not use 4WD very often on tacky or high traction surfaces, because of the risk of driveline binding and increased stress on the 4WD components. Toyota decided to add the option of a center differential to some trucks, and it does the same thing as the axle differential, that is, allow the two outputs to rotate at different speeds, and they called it Multimode 4WD. An axle differential allows the axles to rotate at different speeds and relieve driveline stress, the transfer case differential (or center diff) allows the driveshafts to rotate at different speeds and relieve driveline stress. A center diff has a really big drawback though - just like a 2wd vehicle can get stuck spinning just one wheel, a 4wd vehicle with an open center diff can get stuck spinning just one wheel. So Toyota designed the center diff on 4Runners and FJ Cruisers to have a locking mechanism, and it's effect is exactly the same as locking an axle differential - the two outputs are no longer allowed to rotate at different speeds. You've got the best of both worlds - you have an open center differential that allows you to use 4WD on pavement without risk when you want it, and you have a locked center differential (which is the same as no center differential) giving you offroad traction equal to a traditional part-time 4WD truck, when you want it.

You do not have AWD . You have full time 4WD with a locking center diff, with various electronic stability enhancers that make it do a fair impression of AWD, but anybody who thinks their truck is AWD needs to go drive a Subaru on a skid pad.

Oh, and a locker won't help much in the sand. Get good tires, air them down to 20 PSI, lock the center diff and go. If you still bog down, drop to 10 PSI.

One of the most informative replies I have gotten on this forum, thanks!

 

[Brique]

Agreed, that response was pure win, kid. Thank you.

OP, your '02 has Trac, which helps with traction in a way pre-01 models didn't have. Before you consider dropping the cash on lockers, make sure you learn how to make the most of that system, you may not need anything more than what you have already.

My 01 has trac as well, and I'm also still working on understanding it.

 

[Bandit Runner]

I have an '02 with the center diff lock, and I have front and rear ARB air lockers. Everything works well together. Definitely think about regearing too. I recommend East Coast Gear Supply.

I started a thread about regearing and lockers when I was looking into it. There is some good information in it, and you might find it helpful.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/137448-bandit-runner-wants-re-gear-his-diffs.html

Good luck.

 

[mxer]

You went from not knowing what a diff locker is to getting front and rear ARBs?? Dang that's hardcore.

 

[Thorgan112]

You went from not knowing what a diff locker is to getting front and rear ARBs?? Dang that's hardcore.

I knew what they were, I was confused with the difference between all the variances. And I have been doing a bit of reading haha, hey cut me some slack, I'm trying to pick it up and learn, and that's the only way I'll find out right?

 

[Doc2012]

[MENTION=97873]Thorgan112[/MENTION]-

Props my friend. Better than most people here.

"I searched but didn't find anything."

*****. Use google.


Anyway. Off topic.

KidV is absolutely right.

Airing down your tires, whether on sand or any OFF-ROAD surface where you're using 4WD is a good idea any time.

I usually go to 10-12psi when I'm wheeling. That, with the lockers, (when I had the rear) got me through a lot of shit.

IMHO, you can't beat an ARB. Selectable, get the best of both worlds. No "pops", or anything like that. Just hit two switches and you're golden.

 

[Thorgan112]

[MENTION=97873]Thorgan112[/MENTION]-

Props my friend. Better than most people here.

"I searched but didn't find anything."

*****. Use google.


Anyway. Off topic.

KidV is absolutely right.

Airing down your tires, whether on sand or any OFF-ROAD surface where you're using 4WD is a good idea any time.

I usually go to 10-12psi when I'm wheeling. That, with the lockers, (when I had the rear) got me through a lot of shit.

IMHO, you can't beat an ARB. Selectable, get the best of both worlds. No "pops", or anything like that. Just hit two switches and you're golden.

I am really leaning towards them, before I do though I am definitely going to do the Andy mod and allow myself to have the option to turn off trac and vsc, that trac control kills me, and I hate how the only way to kill it is lock the center diff, which can only be done in 4lo unless I go and do the grey wire mod.

So you have the arb lockers and like them? Did you install them yourself or have it done for you? I have read plenty on hear tht says let someone do it if you don't know how, I hate that ideology though. If I just give it to someone I'll never be able to fix it If something does go wrong.

 

[IBallEngineer]

You guys have to stop calling it All Wheel Drive. It is not All Wheel Drive, it is fulltime 4WD and they are not the same thing. Here, OP, watch this right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN6-gCxI60g

Now that you're up to speed on the difference between 4Runners with Part Time 4WD (no center diff) and 4Runners with Multimode 4WD (locking center), here's a couple videos that may help you understand exactly how a differential works. This is crucial to understanding what's going on in your axles and transfer case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI (skip to 1:50 or so)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIGvhvOhLHU

Good to go? Ok, so the differential in your transfer case is, for our purposes here, exactly the same as the differentials on your front and rear axles (it's not exactly the same, but the ways that it's different are not important here). A truck with Part Time 4WD should not use 4WD very often on tacky or high traction surfaces, because of the risk of driveline binding and increased stress on the 4WD components. Toyota decided to add the option of a center differential to some trucks, and it does the same thing as the axle differential, that is, allow the two outputs to rotate at different speeds, and they called it Multimode 4WD. An axle differential allows the axles to rotate at different speeds and relieve driveline stress, the transfer case differential (or center diff) allows the driveshafts to rotate at different speeds and relieve driveline stress. A center diff has a really big drawback though - just like a 2wd vehicle can get stuck spinning just one wheel, a 4wd vehicle with an open center diff can get stuck spinning just one wheel. So Toyota designed the center diff on 4Runners and FJ Cruisers to have a locking mechanism, and it's effect is exactly the same as locking an axle differential - the two outputs are no longer allowed to rotate at different speeds. You've got the best of both worlds - you have an open center differential that allows you to use 4WD on pavement without risk when you want it, and you have a locked center differential (which is the same as no center differential) giving you offroad traction equal to a traditional part-time 4WD truck, when you want it.

You do not have AWD . You have full time 4WD with a locking center diff, with various electronic stability enhancers that make it do a fair impression of AWD, but anybody who thinks their truck is AWD needs to go drive a Subaru on a skid pad.

Oh, and a locker won't help much in the sand. Get good tires, air them down to 20 PSI, lock the center diff and go. If you still bog down, drop to 10 PSI.

Subys are unique, they are so proud of their symmetrical design and the ability to distribute power where needed, and they should be. The concept of full time 4WD vs AWD is purely marketing anyway. The only true difference in the most basic form is the lack of a low range in an AWD. In reality every manufacturer does things a little differently and you could make subclasses even within the manufacturers. The multimode t/c didn't exist in the FJ80, but they called it full time 4WD.

I use my lockers in the sand, of course I weigh 1.75 X what you do!

:couch2:

 

[Doc2012]

I am really leaning towards them, before I do though I am definitely going to do the Andy mod and allow myself to have the option to turn off trac and vsc, that trac control kills me, and I hate how the only way to kill it is lock the center diff, which can only be done in 4lo unless I go and do the grey wire mod.

So you have the arb lockers and like them? Did you install them yourself or have it done for you? I have read plenty on hear tht says let someone do it if you don't know how, I hate that ideology though. If I just give it to someone I'll never be able to fix it If something does go wrong.

Get the lockers, gears, and diff from East Coast Gear Supply.

They have a 5 year warranty against anything that goes wrong from their install.

They mail you the diff, you mail yours back.


I'm lucky I'm only about 2 hrs away from them.

There's so much that can go wrong with installing gears unless you know what you're doing.

 

[KidVermicious]

Subys are unique, they are so proud of their symmetrical design and the ability to distribute power where needed, and they should be.

I'm no expert, but this bit right here is my understanding of the difference between 4WD and AWD. AWD systems will actively modulate the amount of power transmitted to each wheel based on input from sensors, where a fulltime 4WD system doesn't (although it may be smart enough to modulate braking forces, depending, which is close but not quite the same thing). I don't see any reason an "AWD" setup couldn't also have a low range transfer case, except that any vehicle built with low range is probably intended to be robust enough to need legit 4WD instead of AWD.

Although you're right, I don't know that there's an industry standard regarding what can be called AWD or not, so really it all comes down to whatever J Random Auto Manufacturer's marketing department decides to call their setup :thumb:.

 

[sportrunner2001]

I am really leaning towards them, before I do though I am definitely going to do the Andy mod and allow myself to have the option to turn off trac and vsc, that trac control kills me, and I hate how the only way to kill it is lock the center diff, which can only be done in 4lo unless I go and do the grey wire mod.

So you have the arb lockers and like them? Did you install them yourself or have it done for you? I have read plenty on hear tht says let someone do it if you don't know how, I hate that ideology though. If I just give it to someone I'll never be able to fix it If something does go wrong.

You can lock the center diff in 4 hi and low. It will disable the vsc which is the one that beeps when you try and drift on snow but the trac will still be on and work comparable to limited slip. There is no Grey wire unless you have the rear locker from factory. Trust me, I used to think the same thing as you but got educated one time on yota tech when I said what you did haha

Edit: you are right on what the Andy mod does but it isn't a Grey wire

 

[02SE]

Traditionally, Full-Time 4wd referred to a system that sent power to all four wheels, all the time, on any surface, under any conditions without binding in the driveline, and also has a selectable low-range in a transfer case.

When the term "All-Wheel Drive" arrived, it referred to a system that sent power to all four wheels all the time, on any surface, under any conditions without binding in the driveline, but lacked a low-range capability.

 

[flighht2k5]

So I have never truly understood locking differentials. I did a little bit of research today and reading and have a better grasp on them now. I have a 2002 so I have a e locker for the center differential, which basically spins the front and rear differentials at the same speed as opposed to the rear locker which spins each "wheel" in the rear at the same speed. So assuming what I just said is right and I didnt mess that part up, here is my question:

I am thinking about installing the arb air lockers. Now I know I would need to get a compressor first. If installing a front and rear aftermarket locker, do I need to remove the factory center differential e locker? I am getting confused I think because of their locations. In my mind those are three spots for lockers, front center and rear. But I am almost certain my ideology is wrong and "center" is just called center because it locks the two differential at the same speed. anyone care to clear up my knowledge?

all your center "locker" does is, locks the t-case just as an old fashioned part time case does when it is put into 4wd. Nothing to do with the rear dif.