Ho Ho Hope I didn't hurt the diff

[Krommeweg]

Happy Holidays to everyone reading this!

I was making a slow left turn in a parking lot today when BANG, crunch.

Somehow I had lost the right lower ball joint completely (all I found was the lock nut, no sign of anything else) and the axle shaft was sheared off inboard of the tripod. I could clearly see into the goey greay interior of the inboard joint.

I had to be at work in 30 minutes so I had it towed to a safe place. No chance to look through it tonight, but I will be spending Christmas day on the ice trying to assess which parts I need to order. Will post pictures.

I have been through the front end before, change gear/diff fluid every year or so and do my best to take care of the Yota. That said, it has a hard life on gravel, ice and deep snow. It is critical to our life out here, and almost always saves the day.

First question, what else do you think I broke? The sway bar is definitely bent and at least one of the links is bent as well.

Second, I wouldn't mind hearing another front end story (read a lot already on these forums) to make me feel better.

Finally, what upgrades do you folks recommend to increase durability? I know the front ends on the 3rd gen are a bit of a weak point. I love the Tundra brakes I swapped years ago, have lots of Yukon parts, what else could I do to make it more bullet-proof? At this point, even a solid axle swap is on the table.

In Alaska there are only two seasons. Winter, and Road Maintenance.

I love this thing and it won't die until I do. So Happy Holidays to all you Toyota people.

 

[RandyBobandy]

I doubt you broke the diff, the cv axle is usually a weak point in order to protect the diff and you have guys on here snapping them off while rock crawling with double locked 4runners and the diffs are fine. it’s why a lot of people say don’t upgrade to stronger CVs. I guess you could have damaged the spindle but who knows, you’ll have to inspect everything.

The 4Runner front ends aren’t really weak, I’d honestly say they’re one of the strongest ifs front ends on a vehicle of this size, everything is really beefy compared to other ifs vehicles, I think when people say they’re weak they’re comparing it to a Dana 60 or something along those lines which isn’t really a fair comparison.

If these ball joints were relatively new and not the originals, and the way you use the vehicle is causing them to fail like this then I’d probably look into a solid axle swap, if they were original or anything other than oem then get new ball joints and don’t worry about it for another 50k miles or so

 

[theesotericone]

Second, I wouldn't mind hearing another front end story (read a lot already on these forums) to make me feel better.

There's a chance you broke the hard brake line. Other then that you should replace both the LBJ, obviously, and I'd replace the UBJ since that was most likely stressed beyond it's working range. Throw in a new CV and get it aligned. Then see how it drives. I'm willing to bet it is fine after that.

As far as front end stories goes since it's Christmas I'll entertain you.

I've killed 11 of these:

This OTR has seen better days.

This ITR is also bent.

Ratchet strap holding the LBJ to the spindle after I sheared 3 of 4 bolts. This was just to get my rig about 150 stressful yards to a safe spot off trail.

Here's the LBJ welded to the spindle so I could finish the trail.

Broken spindle.

Strut tower from hell.

That's just a few of the things I've dealt with. These rigs can get beat up pretty good and still drive just fine. I wouldn't worry too much about any damage that was done. Just put it back together with new parts and continue to drive it.

 

[Devbot]

I mean a SAS would nip it in the bud, but that's a $10-20k solution right there and seems like a pretty drastic jump. You could do a long travel set up and get some LCAs from Total Chaos or someone similar that utilizes a uniball LBJ, but they tend to squeak like crazy unless properly lubed which puts off a lot of people - but an LT set up will still run you a fraction of a SAS. Some have tried fitting Tacoma and Tundra LBJs to our vehicles but it's a hell of a lot of work for seemingly not much return. Opt Offroad/Eimkeith offer reinforcements for our LCAs but I don't think it would address LBJs or make them any stronger. Not a whole lot of options afaik

 

[Krommeweg]

There's a chance you broke the hard brake line. Other then that you should replace both the LBJ, obviously, and I'd replace the UBJ since that was most likely stressed beyond it's working range. Throw in a new CV and get it aligned. Then see how it drives. I'm willing to bet it is fine after that.

As far as front end stories goes since it's Christmas I'll entertain you.

Thanks, that did actually make me feel better...

After a day laying on the ice, things are looking better. I think I lost the nut off the lower BJ which allowed the boot to slip off and the tripod to come right out of the joint. Definitely bent the steering knuckle, the stabilizer bar and links. Somehow those brake lines are A-OK. Small miracles.

The CV axle looks OK, but the shaft is scarred just outside the tripod and snap ring... so I'm going for a whole new CV assembly. If there was enough force to bugger the end of the shaft, something else might be slightly out. But the tripod looks good, so I'll keep the old CV for a spare.

Grabbed some new bushings to swap out while we're in there, OEM parts from Washington on the boat up to Alaska... and hopefully we'll be back on the road in a week or two.

Thanks again for the perspectives and the empathy folks. It helps!

 

[Krommeweg]

I mean a SAS would nip it in the bud, but that's a $10-20k solution right there and seems like a pretty drastic jump. You could do a long travel set up and get some LCAs from Total Chaos or someone similar that utilizes a uniball LBJ, but they tend to squeak like crazy unless properly lubed which puts off a lot of people - but an LT set up will still run you a fraction of a SAS. Some have tried fitting Tacoma and Tundra LBJs to our vehicles but it's a hell of a lot of work for seemingly not much return. Opt Offroad/Eimkeith offer reinforcements for our LCAs but I don't think it would address LBJs or make them any stronger. Not a whole lot of options afaik

I hear you. Meanwhile I'll be playing the Lotto and budgeting for Total Chaos LT parts.

 

[Krommeweg]

There's a chance...

With all the work you've done to the front end, how do you like those King coilovers?? Have you ever tried anything else, and would you go the same route again?

 

[FD7683]

urgggh this reminds me to replace my (possible) factory 222k LBJ's soon.....

What was your mileage of failure for this pair? factory 270k or replacements? just curious.

 

[sportscarfan]

Reminds me too...I've got a new pair of LBJ's on the parts shelf.
224k on what I assume are original.

 

[Krommeweg]

What was your mileage of failure for this pair? factory 270k or replacements? just curious.

Ball joints and CVs are factory parts with ~270,000. 14 years in Toronto and then 8 years on the coast, corrosion, rough roads and gravel daily.

We definitely recommend keeping an eye on the ball joints. If this had happened 10 minutes earlier, we would've been on an icy two lane highway, probably doing 55mph.

 

[Devbot]

I hear you. Meanwhile I'll be playing the Lotto and budgeting for Total Chaos LT parts.

Fwiw I would go with Solo Motorsports over Total Chaos for LT. I've heard nothing but very shoddy things from Total Chaos (mostly in regards to their customer support) and Solo Motorsports offers the most travel in the game (their XLT kit gives like 19in of total travel or something gnarly). I just gave up Total Chaos as an example, not to shout them out

Ball joints and CVs are factory parts with ~270,000. 14 years in Toronto and then 8 years on the coast, corrosion, rough roads and gravel daily.

Well there's ya problem, they should've been swapped out over 200,000 miles ago. Chances are your ball joints were toast for a while and they've finally had enough

 

[AntleredRuin]

I hate to say this and be 'that jerk guy', but this (and nearly every LBJ story) is a case of neglecting maintenance. It's a 100k mile part, and always has been. No need to upgrade to a 'beefier system', etc. Just replace them when you are supposed to, and you never have to worry about being stranded or the collateral damage they cause when they break.
You went 270k on the factory ones. That's neat, but that's nearly 3 times the lifespan that they are rated for.

Let's put it another way; the timing belt is rated for 90k miles. If you get 240k miles from the factory belt before it snaps, do you look to radically reinvent the timing on the front of the engine because the belt is a 'weak link'? It's all just basic maintenance. Stick to the service schedule and you'll be fine.

Go OEM only. You have a part officially rated for 100k miles that actually lasted for 270k. Do you realize how OVERengineered that means that part actually is? That speaks to quality straight from the factory, the way it was intended without any aftermarket parts interfering.

LBJs are not hard to replace at all. Takes 2-3 hours total if you're taking your time and it costs less than $200 shipped from a dealer.

I'll take a step back from that poor dead horse now.

 

[Krommeweg]

but this (and nearly every LBJ story) is a case of neglecting maintenance. It's a 100k mile part, and always has been.

Yeah, you're right. I've been good about most things but ball joints weren't on my radar. Neither was the service schedule from the owners manual, digging up a copy of that now.

 

[Bad Luck]

Yeah, you're right. I've been good about most things but ball joints weren't on my radar. Neither was the service schedule from the owners manual, digging up a copy of that now.

Here's a 2000 FSM in case you run into trouble and need to consult one: Update your browser to use Google Drive, Docs, Sheets, Sites, Slides, and Forms - Google Drive Help It won't be exact, but it should be really close for your 1999.

 

[theesotericone]

With all the work you've done to the front end, how do you like those King coilovers?? Have you ever tried anything else, and would you go the same route again?

Before the Kings I had Taco Billies with Eibach 620# springs. They where pretty good for the price but the Kings are miles better on high speed off-road stuff. To me Kings are a specialty use item. If you wheel hard and abuse the shit out of your shocks they are absolutely worth it. If you mostly do highway miles with the occasional dirt road I'd say Billies do just fine. Save the money for a better cooler and more beer.

 

[Krommeweg]

Here's a 2000 FSM in case you run into trouble and need to consult one: Update your browser It won't be exact, but it should be really close for your 1999.

Thanks!