How long can I drive in snow with part time 4x4?

I don't get why people say you can't drive '96-98 on dry pavement in 4wd. You can. I do it quite often. As long as you aren't turning you won't have a problem. I've had mine in 4wd up to about 80 MPH, maybe more.

we say that to people who don't understand how it works so they won't blow up their ride, if you know how it works then you can protect yourself, but trying to explain to someone what's going on over the internet and saying things like "you can go as fast as you want just don't turn" gets a bit confusing
and leaves the driver to ask, "does this count as a turn" does this count"
you know, it's safer to just say not to use it on the pavement to a newbie.

i'd rather say not to use it and cut out maybe 10% functionality
then say to use it and have them explode their system resulting in very expensive repairs.

at least that's my reason for it, maybe it's right maybe it's wrong,
i don't know, what do you guys think, am i just being lazy in fully explaining it all of the way or am i protecting user1815681341278651 random dude on the internet guy?

you know what i'm saying?

tough call really, give a newbie the information to hang himself or just figure he doesn't know enough and protect him from himself until he makes an intelligent post on here?
(i have yet to make an intelligent post on here....lol)
 
I don't get why people say you can't drive '96-98 on dry pavement in 4wd. You can. I do it quite often. As long as you aren't turning you won't have a problem. I've had mine in 4wd up to about 80 MPH, maybe more.

It's not a problem to drive in 4x4 on a straight, dry road. You could drive in 4x4 like that for days on end. It's only turning hard corners that it will bind up on a dry pavement road. The speed recommendations I gave are solely based on the info from the cards inside the sunvisor on my truck and other's with the multi-mode system and the owner's manuals. I'd be willing to bet that the components can handle much faster speeds, but I wouldn't want to say that without a disclaimer and have someone go and break their 4x4. I generally follow Toyotas recommandations because they know what's best to get the most life out of it.

If a rope is rated for 2K lbs, it'll probably hold 5K before it breaks. It's just that they have to put ratings less than the breaking point so they don't get sued. I think it's the same thing here, but I'm not willing to be the one to see how close or how far off toyota's #s are from reality. I'd rather take their word for it and it's safe to say nothing will get damaged under their guidelines.
 
I'm not trying to argue here, but I don't want people getting the wrong idea.

As long as you aren't making sharp turns like you said, it's completely fine.

My visor states no max speed. The only speed rating that it lists is to engage under like 50 MPH. Once you engage 4wd you should be fine to go as fast as you desire. I don't know why someone would want to go that fast, but they should be fine.

If you feel binding in any 4wd situation you are probably doing something wrong.
 
I'm not trying to argue here, but I don't want people getting the wrong idea.

As long as you aren't making sharp turns like you said, it's completely fine.

My visor states no max speed. The only speed rating that it lists is to engage under like 50 MPH. Once you engage 4wd you should be fine to go as fast as you desire. I don't know why someone would want to go that fast, but they should be fine.

If you feel binding in any 4wd situation you are probably doing something wrong.

I didn't think we were trying to arguing either. Sometimes just typing a reply comes across as trying to "prove" something or whatever, but not the case here. It's a good discussion with good points being made. I will have to re-read the card in my visor, but I took it as meaning don't shift or drive in 4x4 over 50 mph. I've always thought (and have been told thoughout my life) you never want to take old school 4x4 over ~50 mph. I'm not sure if this is because of t-case temperature and wear on the gears or what.
 
Wonder why they adopted the terminology "part time" and "full time"....

How about "Locked" (no open diff between front and rear wheels) and "unlocked" (AWD open diff between front and rear wheels)

Part time full time should refer to jobs and lack there of....... or .... some girls should wear cloths full time and the girl i'm skiing with should only wear them, part time....lol

I dont have photos yet my friends.. but here is something in the mean time..lol

:girl:
 
Wonder why they adopted the terminology "part time" and "full time"....

How about "Locked" (no open diff between front and rear wheels) and "unlocked" (AWD open diff between front and rear wheels)

Part time full time should refer to jobs and lack there of....... or .... some girls should wear cloths full time and the girl i'm skiing with should only wear them, part time....lol

I dont have photos yet my friends.. but here is something in the mean time..lol

:girl:


This post pretty much sums up my confusion right here lol.

I didn't want to start a big argument, i have just never used those terms in reference to a 4wd system before. But, im all caught up now :lmao:



Now... about those pics :naughty:
 
Once you engage 4wd you should be fine to go as fast as you desire. I don't know why someone would want to go that fast, but they should be fine.

Even in a straight line on pavement there are subtle inputs causing very small wheel speed differences. The stress is low but it is constant and at high speed, where there is considerable engine output, it will cause transfer and diff temperatures to rise higher than usual after a while.
 
Thats what i was worried about! Would better diff oil help? Id like to think the runner could go 2 hours on snow "locked" ...lol
 
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If your on snow it's no problem , it's just when it's snowy then not snowy then snowy again and not , or just bare pavement when you got the problem , any mode of 4wd should be fine on a fully snow covered road, just take it easy on the corners .
 
Thats what i was worried about! Would better diff oil help? Id like to think the runner could go 2 hours on snow "locked" ...lol
Just to confuse things more 'locked' typically means a locked front or rear differential , this is another ball of wax All together ,

who's got a link to that 1950 video On the matter ?
 
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Not sure what you guys are on about. I drive all the time with 4wd in my 99. It's so awesome that smoke even comes out underneath the car when I do burnouts.





Seriously though, it's worth learning about the differing operations of drivetrains just to understand how most vehicles work let alone ones with as many options as our Runners.


Reliant Robins are crazy complex.
 
Wow, that is one of - if not the most - awesome video I have ever seen on youtube!

also, I don't see how the front diff. will be damaged at all. I mean a diff. is a diff. right? The rear diff is going all the time, up to whatever top speed you get up to, and it never gets damaged. I can see how the t-case could get hurt, but aren't the stresses imparted on a front differential in 4hi no different than those imparted on a front diff. in AWD? (or a rear diff. for that matter)
 
Wonder why they adopted the terminology "part time" and "full time"....

Okay, sit back and grab a cup of coffee, folks, it's time for a 4wd history lesson.

Pay attention, as there will be a quiz afterwards. :p

It goes back to the old days of 4wd. 4wd was virtually unheard of in civilian vehicles until after WWII. The production of the Jeep and the Dodge WC series of 4wd trucks during the war made 4wd a more popular option.

Still, Ford and Chevy didn't offer factory 4wd on their trucks until the late 1950s (if you wanted a 4wd before then, you would arrange to purchase a 2wd truck from the dealer and the dealer would then send it to an aftermarket shop - NAPCO or Marmon-Herrington - who would then do the 4wd conversion and send it back to the dealer.) Jeep and Dodge were a little bit ahead of the game with their 4x4 trucks, both introduced in the late 1940's (the first "wagon" type 4wd SUV was the 1949 Jeep Utility Wagon.)

Anyway, back then there were no center differentials and everybody who bought a 4x4 understood that you could not use the 4wd on dry, hard-surfaced roads because of the potential for driveline binding.

That situation existed until the early 70's when the first commercially viable full-time 4wd vehicle, the Range Rover, was introduced. The Range Rover used a revolutionary Inter-Axle Differential (what we would call the center differential) to prevent driveline binding and allow the vehicle to be in 4wd all the time. Shortly thereafter, around 1974-75, all of the Domestic manufacturers started introducing full-time 4wd vehicles, most of which used the New Process 203 transfer case with an inter-axle differential.

On Ford, Chevy and Dodge vehicles, the IAD (Inter-Axle Differential) was an open diff and there was a lever on the floor that allowed 5 modes: Low-Lock (low range, diff locked), Low (low range, diff open), Neutral, High (high range, diff open) and High-Lock (high range, diff locked.) They were sold as "full-time four wheel drive" because they could be used "full time", that is, there was no 2wd option, and it was contrasted with the conventional 4wd systems which were "part time" because you could not use 4wd all the time (unless you did all your driving on unimproved or slippery roads.)

Jeep used a slightly different version of the NP203 in their Wagoneer and J-series trucks. On those vehicles, the center diff was a limited slip. Because of this, it was thought that under normal circumstances, there would be no need to lock it, so Jeep "hid" the lock button in the back of the glove box. On some NP203 equipped vehicles like the Wagoneer, the transfer case was a single-speed unit and low range was in an optional module that bolted onto the back of the T-case, and there was a small lever on the floor for engaging low range. AFAIK these t-cases did not have a neutral position.

Full time 4wd was hailed as a great acheivement when it came out. Magazines pointed out that the primary advantage of full time 4wd was not off-road - where the t-case would normally be locked anyway - it was on-road where the use of 4wd on pavement could allow for better handling and better response to sudden patches of rain, ice, snow, etc.

Although all three manufacturers had full time 4wd on their vehicles, they differed on how they offered it. Chevy/GMC and Jeep generally put full time together with automatic transmissions. IOW, if you bought a vehicle with an AT, you got full time 4wd, and if you bought one with a manual tranny, you got part time. With Ford, I believe it was an option with the automatic and not available with the manual. Dodge, OTOH, was fully committed to the full-time system and made it standard across their line.

Incidentally, International Harvester, which was also a player in the recreational 4x4 field with the Scout, Scout II, Travelall, Traveler, Terra and the various pickups they built, never offered full time 4wd on any of their vehicles.

Unfortunately, the year full time 4wd was introduced - 1974 - was also the year of the first Arab oil embargo (a response to the US support of Israel during the Yom Kippur war of 1973.) The oil embargo caused gas prices to spike all across the country and also led to intermittent shortages. This was a problem for the 4x4 manufacturers as full time 4wd vehicles used more gas than the older, part-time 4wd vehicles.

By the late 70's gas prices were still high and some aftermarket manufacturers were coming up with ways of temporarily deactivating the full time T-case. By the early 80's most of the big 3 had abandoned full time 4wd because it hurt their Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) requirements.

With a few exceptions (like some of the Grand Wagoneers introduced in the early 80's) this was the situation that existed for the next 10 - 15 years.

(to be continued...)
 
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4wd/AWD history, part 2

(Continued from previous post)

Although a few full-tme 4wd vehicles were still in production in the late 80s (the Range Rovers were always full-time and the full-time 4wd FJ80 was introduced in 1991) most domestic and imported 4wd vehicles from about 1983 1995 or so used conventional 4wd, often with automatic locking hubs or an ADD system similar to what we have on our 3rd gen 4runners.

By the mid 90's, the SUV craze was beginning to gather steam, and some manufacturers started making car-based vehicles that looked like SUVs but were actually derived from unibody FWD cars. On some of them they would use a viscous coupling to run a driveshaft to the rear wheels to give "All wheel drive." or AWD.

AWD differed from conventional 4wd in two important respects: It normally used a viscous coupling rather than a gear-driven transfer case, and it normally did not include a low range, as it was not really intended for off-road use, rather it was intended for slippery, wet, or icy roads. And the viscous coupling, because it was not a gear system, had enough "slippage" built into it to prevent the driveline binding that part-time 4wd vehicles had to contend with. IOW, the viscous coupling of AWD vehicles makes the inter-axle differential (center diff) unneccessary.

These "cute utes" or "Crossovers" had many styling cues of true 4wd SUVs (high stance, short overhangs, spare tire mounted on rear door, etc) but were, in fact, car-based wagons, despite their appearance, and not really intended for off-road use. In fact, on many of them (like the Honda AWD vehicles) the vehicle is normally a FWD vehicle and the rear wheels only engage when the front ones begin to slip, via the viscous coupling (Honda calls this "Real-time 4wd.")

As they became popular, though, manufacturers of conventional body-on-frame SUVs saw the utility of returning to the full-time 4wd systems. It was then that the "multi-mode" systems were introduced in some vehicles that would allow you to use RWD (for better fuel economy), full-time 4wd (open center diff) or 'conventional' 4wd (center diff locked.) The multi-mode T-case that Toyota introduced with the 1999 4runner Limited is one of the examples of these, but there were many more.

So that's the story of how the terms "Full-time 4wd", "part-time 4wd" and "all wheel drive" evolved into their current usage.
 
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great post and will probably clue some in, but just to be a jerk 4wd was invented by porsche in the late 1800's, it's kind of funny because this very same design is what the engineers at mit are looking at for the future of our new electric vehicles.....

The 1899 Lohner Porsche, the first Hybrid Vehicle?

but in the broad scheme of things your right on man, very very good post!
*rep given*
 
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