i don't like where this is going...

[PoshSnoop]

used to be, a feller could just turn a wrench.

General Motors says it owns your car's software

 

[4eigner]

Not at all surprised. It's the same with the software in your smart phone & computers. Unless you're running open source of course

 

[SlickmisterN]

"I don't like where this is going..."

Nor do i! Luckily our 3rd gens are open source and unaffected. That 2016 Prius Plug-In your parents just bought...not so much op2:

 

[Nelsonmd]

This from the 'company' that screwed up a simply ignition switch redesign (why even do it???), then lied about it and as of Yesterday has officially been linked to 104 deaths. I will Never buy another GM product again. As much as i hate What the **** did to various countries in WWII, I'd rather buy their product than goofy motors! :cowboy:

Dude, WW2 ended 70 years ago. How do you feel about the germans? I mean the companies that made the gas for the camps are still around and you're using their products everyday... During WW2 Toyota was a nascent automobile builder and I don't think very involved in the war effort (nothing like Mitsubishi and Fuji at least...) and Honda wasn't even incorporated until after the war. Totally unnecessary to bring that into this conversation. And frankly, the mods should probably delete your post for the racial term...


While I don't want the software ownership issue to prevent independent mechanics from repairing vehicles, there are actually some very good reasons why any company, not just GM, would want to maintain rights over the software.

1. It's their IP: The software is becoming more and more the difference between excellent performance and mediocre to poor performance of systems like ABS, ESC, etc. and is expected on cars, not just a luxury feature. It's relatively easy for Audi to patent their quattro transfer case since it's a physical part, but it's not really any different than a company doing that electronically and expecting to be able to patent their equivalent functionality.

2. GM may be legally responsible if a shop (or just some schmo) messes with the code and the system doesn't perform right: I don't know if this is really the core of the issue, but I could easily see this coming up in a courtroom. GM licensing the code means that it would be illegal for anyone to modify the code (per the licensing agreement), so releasing GM from legal liability in the case of modified code. This is a legitimate concern, but could also easily be abused by GM to prevent anyone but dealers from working on their systems. Double edged sword...

I am 100% in support of right to repair, but we do need to figure out how to maintain the IP rights and reasonable liability of the OEM's as designs become more electronic than physical. I think GM can license their software without preventing independent mechanics from doing repairs; the courts just need to keep them honest about it. That said, I don't trust GM or really any OEM to not abuse the IP laws in this way. I guess GM will be the lead case, but I guarantee the other OEM's will watch the case closely to gauge how they will handle it after GM goes through the court costs.

 

[JayRolla]

They are also trying to stop complete wrenching, modifications and a lot of states are on board along with other manufacturers. California wants to stop all the street racers also with the modification tickets. I could see it soon found that working on your modifying the software can be considered a safety issue.

 

[Doc2012]

I'll Keep my 4Runner, but I'm going to get an oldschool mofo, with no computers.

F these people trying to take our fun away......

 

[BlazeRunner]

I'm curious as to why this is in the 3rd gen section fftopic:

 

[Hepar]

As much as i hate What the nips did to various countries in WWII,

Might be news to you, might not, but that is an extremely offensive use of words. This coming from a Japanese American who's father was born in an internment camp.

 

[JWaldz]

I'm curious as to why this is in the 3rd gen section fftopic:

Was wondering that myself...


off topic bound

 

[Nelsonmd]

They are also trying to stop complete wrenching, modifications and a lot of states are on board along with other manufacturers. California wants to stop all the street racers also with the modification tickets. I could see it soon found that working on your modifying the software can be considered a safety issue.

Yeah, and I disagree with that. The courts need to make sure that people can still work on their cars, independent shops can work on them, and people can modify them without being ticketed or sued. But they also equally need to make sure that the OEM's are not liable when the modifications cause stock systems to fail, or if someone messes with the code and it causes something to go wrong. It's a difficult line to draw, but the courts really need to do it and do it in a thoughtful and reasonable way. More likely however is that cronyism will win out, and GM will win.

I mean, no one should be surprised at Cali just jumping head first into any request for the government to regulate an industry more heavily, but the scary thing is that Cali is often a forerunner for national legislation. Some Cali legislator will get a bunch of money through some laundered means from the OEM's, and the gov't will regulate this issue, and independent shops and individuals will lose out.

 

[JayRolla]

Yeah, and I disagree with that. The courts need to make sure that people can still work on their cars, independent shops can work on them, and people can modify them without being ticketed or sued. But they also equally need to make sure that the OEM's are not liable when the modifications cause stock systems to fail, or if someone messes with the code and it causes something to go wrong. It's a difficult line to draw, but the courts really need to do it and do it in a thoughtful and reasonable way. More likely however is that cronyism will win out, and GM will win.

I mean, no one should be surprised at Cali just jumping head first into any request for the government to regulate an industry more heavily, but the scary thing is that Cali is often a forerunner for national legislation. Some Cali legislator will get a bunch of money through some laundered means from the OEM's, and the gov't will regulate this issue, and independent shops and individuals will lose out.

Yes I agree with you. Only thing I could see happen is independent shop owners could get authorized by the dealers to wrench on the cars. Like in the tech world. When your tv fails, an authorized 3rd party repair guy can repair and do warranty work on the item. Which is what I do for a living. Repair every brand PC, laptop, tv, small electronic known to man. LOL

 

[jgue467]

Dude, WW2 ended 70 years ago. How do you feel about the germans?

Dude - GM did this in the last 10 years - that is the rub here. The nips (its not a racial term, its referring to citizens of a country - meaning that term includes their supporters) just like the 'yanks' phrase - our US military used that phrase including a few others for Germans, Italians and so on. The companies that made the gas did not kill people, the Nazis did. The company that made the faulty ignition switches did not kill people, GM did in its failure to test properly and then to resolve the problem once known.

I feel sorry for the German people that have to live with the ww2 legacy and what they did to 100 million+ people around the world - I have met many of them - they hang their heads in shame over that. But again, the topic is goofy motors and their lies that have so far counted up 104 deaths, I'm pretty sure there w/b more.

Do we think goofy motors feels bad about what they did? Doubt it since they arranged for a US taxpayer bailout while arranging the language such that the "NEW" goofy motors was not responsible for the "OLD" goofy motors screwups. That is inexcusable. Sorry if you disagree - lets leave it at that huh? :cowboy:

 

[Hepar]

The nips (its not a racial term, its referring to citizens of a country - meaning that term includes their supporters) just like the 'yanks' phrase

I don't know where you got this information, but you're wrong. It is a term that was created during WWII and used in an extremely derogatory way throughout the war as well as post-war. I don't know a single Japanese or Japanese American that would appreciate being called one. Stop using it please.