I drive too slow? Battery barely charged.

[Ask10]

Hi all,

I've been battling an enigma with my 4th gen. It's an 03 Sport V8 2WD. Battery is 3 months old, and the first day I got it I stuck it on a boat trickle charger for the night like I always do for new batteries.

Anyway, I came out yesterday to clean out the car and listened to the radio (low volume, you can't hear it even 5-10 ft away) while I was scrubbing the carpets. I was in the car for just 10 or 15 minutes when I got to the dashboard (cleaning), so I figured I'd start it up because I was hot (use A/C). Next thing I know the truck wont turn over, classic low battery click. I immediately shut off the ignition and curse.

I waited 5 minutes and then tried to start it again, fired up but had trouble. I drove it to get the battery checked and while the voltage was rather low at the moment, it tested okay (apparently) and the alternator was supposedly putting out 14 something volts too.

The guy (parts store) then asked me a perplexing question, "Do you drive like a granny by chance?" I have long hair and a beard so I look like a stoner from the 80's to be honest, but actually do drive very slow (as in barely over 1,200-1,400 rpms most of the time) Even on the freeway I'm going 50-55 because it's Hawaii and the speed limit is 55, just my nature. He then said "It's possible you are driving too slow to allow the alternator to effectively charge the battery fully."

Makes sense I guess, I just had never thought of it before because I've never had it happen to be me before. I guess it could explain why my first battery went flat so fast.

Anyway, ideas? B.S? Genuinely interested.

Thanks

 

[MVP]

Interesting theory.... not sure I agree, so want to see what others think about it. Logically, its possible, but how likely...

 

[Atlanta_man]

I've only seen the granny charge issue in very cold winters.
You need a quick batt/alt test.

 

[Rocket61]

Hi all,

I've been battling an enigma with my 4th gen. It's an 03 Sport V8 2WD. Battery is 3 months old, and the first day I got it I stuck it on a boat trickle charger for the night like I always do for new batteries.

Anyway, I came out yesterday to clean out the car and listened to the radio (low volume, you can't hear it even 5-10 ft away) while I was scrubbing the carpets. I was in the car for just 10 or 15 minutes when I got to the dashboard (cleaning), so I figured I'd start it up because I was hot (use A/C). Next thing I know the truck wont turn over, classic low battery click. I immediately shut off the ignition and curse.

I waited 5 minutes and then tried to start it again, fired up but had trouble. I drove it to get the battery checked and while the voltage was rather low at the moment, it tested okay (apparently) and the alternator was supposedly putting out 14 something volts too.

The guy (parts store) then asked me a perplexing question, "Do you drive like a granny by chance?" I have long hair and a beard so I look like a stoner from the 80's to be honest, but actually do drive very slow (as in barely over 1,200-1,400 rpms most of the time) Even on the freeway I'm going 50-55 because it's Hawaii and the speed limit is 55, just my nature. He then said "It's possible you are driving too slow to allow the alternator to effectively charge the battery fully."

Makes sense I guess, I just had never thought of it before because I've never had it happen to be me before. I guess it could explain why my first battery went flat so fast.

Anyway, ideas? B.S? Genuinely interested.

Thanks

Interesting theory but I don't think it's your driving habit. I'm frequently doing 2k rpm on the highway and I'd say average on the throttle around town. Definitely wouldn't call it granny driving. Anyway, I had the same thing happen to me when I was cleaning the interior with the radio on for 20 mins. Heard the low power clicking noise and it wouldn't turn over. Let it sit for an hour and then it fired up. I'm running my original 2007 OEM Panasonic that was tested about 6 months ago and passed with flying colours.

I don't think there's a rpm threshold for your alt to charge your battery. Obviously 3k would charge it faster than 1k but I'm sure as long as the vehicle is on, it's charging the bat. If that wasn't the case, you'd have a dead battery after listening to the radio for 15 mins while idling.

If this is a recurring problem for you, I'd look into getting a battery with a higher reserve capacity minute rating.

 

[Ask10]

I've been doing a lot of googling this morning out of curiosity and I have a theory of my own, want those with more experience to "test me".

From what I can tell, batteries aren't like gas tanks. It's not where you will "fill" it at a certain rate until it gets full, you need to overcome a certain "potential" to attain a certain level of charge. Sorry, hard for me to describe as I am not an engineer. But if you want the battery to be charged to 12.5 volts and xx capacity, you need to push more than 12.5 volts (way more) and a decent amount of current for it to actually charge. If you never exceed a certain charge voltage and current then the battery will never reach full but rather level off at 20-30% whatever charge. Correct me if I'm wrong though please, just using google and misc references.

This would explain why I've never had problems with the truck running since the alternator is providing enough juice for all the accessories, but since I'm driving slow it only has a little but of "extra" to fill the battery. i.e., normally under a load at even 13.5-14 volts there is so little amperage left to overcome that "potential" to push more electrons into the battery above a certain level, so it ends up "topped off" at 20-30%. That's why when using the radio for even a short time, I'm down to barely being able to start it.

Just my theory at the moment, and thanks for those that chipped in.

 

[preacher35]

OK, I haven't seen you touch on this yet, but do you think it's possible that you have a "parasitic draw" problem? What I mean to say is, sometimes a vehicle, overnight will continue to draw enough voltage from the battery, so that when you try to start it in the morning, nothing but clicking, or slow starter turn over. I had this problem with my wife's POS GMC Acadia. In fact, it was one of the reasons that I got rid of it. What aftermarket electronics do you have on your Runner? Just throwing it out there, since nobody has mentioned it.

 

[Ask10]

I have very few accessories on the truck, and I'd venture to say even fewer than most trucks come with stock. Manual seats, no cigarette lighters, no upgraded stereo (stock speakers with 80W Kenwood deck) and no extra lights or winches, etc.

I doubt personally that it's a parasitic draw because I had let it sit for 2 weeks beforehand and then drove it for an hour the night before (40 miles). Then the next day is when I was using the radio to clean it out and the battery flattened. I guess ultimately I'll do my own alternator and battery test again and hopefully something comes of it. Picking up a multimeter this afternoon.

 

[Ask10]

2 MONTHS LATER: Sorry, forgot to update.

Anyway, I haven't been able to duplicate the problem since. I haven't changed my driving habits, and I have also left the stereo on and cleaned the truck out for a good hour with the stereo on and no issue at all since then. I checked my battery voltage and it's at 12.6 and the alternator at 13.5-13.9 at idle.

Not sure what happened that day, maybe I had left a door open slightly and hadn't noticed.

 

[scw1991]

I've run a Sears Die-Hard Gold series battery for years and they've never completely died, rather a single cell goes bad.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Hi all,

I've been battling an enigma with my 4th gen. It's an 03 Sport V8 2WD. Battery is 3 months old, and the first day I got it I stuck it on a boat trickle charger for the night like I always do for new batteries.

Anyway, I came out yesterday to clean out the car and listened to the radio (low volume, you can't hear it even 5-10 ft away) while I was scrubbing the carpets. I was in the car for just 10 or 15 minutes when I got to the dashboard (cleaning), so I figured I'd start it up because I was hot (use A/C). Next thing I know the truck wont turn over, classic low battery click. I immediately shut off the ignition and curse.

I waited 5 minutes and then tried to start it again, fired up but had trouble. I drove it to get the battery checked and while the voltage was rather low at the moment, it tested okay (apparently) and the alternator was supposedly putting out 14 something volts too.

The guy (parts store) then asked me a perplexing question, "Do you drive like a granny by chance?" I have long hair and a beard so I look like a stoner from the 80's to be honest, but actually do drive very slow (as in barely over 1,200-1,400 rpms most of the time) Even on the freeway I'm going 50-55 because it's Hawaii and the speed limit is 55, just my nature. He then said "It's possible you are driving too slow to allow the alternator to effectively charge the battery fully."

Makes sense I guess, I just had never thought of it before because I've never had it happen to be me before. I guess it could explain why my first battery went flat so fast.

Anyway, ideas? B.S? Genuinely interested.

Thanks

I'm confused, why do you induce a charge on brand new batteries? I understand that they can lose a bit of juice on the shelf, but usually they are either sold/turned around before they get anywhere near bad enough from my understanding. This charging may cause some issues depending on the charger you are using (if its "smart" or not) and/or what settings you are using.

I've been doing a lot of googling this morning out of curiosity and I have a theory of my own, want those with more experience to "test me".

From what I can tell, batteries aren't like gas tanks. It's not where you will "fill" it at a certain rate until it gets full, you need to overcome a certain "potential" to attain a certain level of charge. Sorry, hard for me to describe as I am not an engineer. But if you want the battery to be charged to 12.5 volts and xx capacity, you need to push more than 12.5 volts (way more) and a decent amount of current for it to actually charge. If you never exceed a certain charge voltage and current then the battery will never reach full but rather level off at 20-30% whatever charge. Correct me if I'm wrong though please, just using google and misc references.

This would explain why I've never had problems with the truck running since the alternator is providing enough juice for all the accessories, but since I'm driving slow it only has a little but of "extra" to fill the battery. i.e., normally under a load at even 13.5-14 volts there is so little amperage left to overcome that "potential" to push more electrons into the battery above a certain level, so it ends up "topped off" at 20-30%. That's why when using the radio for even a short time, I'm down to barely being able to start it.

Just my theory at the moment, and thanks for those that chipped in.

Typically you need to drive about half an hour to an hour to regain the amperage lost when you crank the vehicle over. The alternator will put out a higher than battery voltage (13.6-14-ish volts) to overcome the battery's resistance and push a charge into it; then the charge rate its throttled by the regulator, too much amperage and the battery overheats, off-gasses, sulfates, ect. Too little amperage and the battery doesn't charge up enough, usually we don't like to put more than about 4 amps on a good battery to "trickle charge it." Though our GR8 Battery Tester/Charger will calculate how much voltage and amperage the battery needs and can sometimes ramp it up to 12+ amps for short periods of time.

As you said its a bit hard to explain without getting into an almost lecture style discussion of electrical principles and such. But mainly its a balance between managing voltage, amperage, and the chemical reaction inside of a lead-acid battery that provides power to the vehicle.

I'm not sure how plausible the theory of you driving too slow is as the vehicle should manage the charge independent of your actions, but that means the length the vehicle needs to be running may be shorter or longer. So if you're making tons of short trips, restarting the vehicle, and listening to the radio/draining the battery with the engine off a lot that may reduce the life of the battery drastically.

 

[nevada]

I'm confused, why do you induce a charge on brand new batteries? I understand that they can lose a bit of juice on the shelf, but usually they are either sold/turned around before they get anywhere near bad enough from my understanding. This charging may cause some issues depending on the charger you are using (if its "smart" or not) and/or what settings you are using.



Typically you need to drive about half an hour to an hour to regain the amperage lost when you crank the vehicle over. The alternator will put out a higher than battery voltage (13.6-14-ish volts) to overcome the battery's resistance and push a charge into it; then the charge rate its throttled by the regulator, too much amperage and the battery overheats, off-gasses, sulfates, ect. Too little amperage and the battery doesn't charge up enough, usually we don't like to put more than about 4 amps on a good battery to "trickle charge it." Though our GR8 Battery Tester/Charger will calculate how much voltage and amperage the battery needs and can sometimes ramp it up to 12+ amps for short periods of time.

As you said its a bit hard to explain without getting into an almost lecture style discussion of electrical principles and such. But mainly its a balance between managing voltage, amperage, and the chemical reaction inside of a lead-acid battery that provides power to the vehicle.

I'm not sure how plausible the theory of you driving too slow is as the vehicle should manage the charge independent of your actions, but that means the length the vehicle needs to be running may be shorter or longer. So if you're making tons of short trips, restarting the vehicle, and listening to the radio/draining the battery with the engine off a lot that may reduce the life of the battery drastically.

i ha seen this often. mostly with reduced capacity batteries(motorcycles) but the working principle would be the same, given a long enough time frame.


in regard to pre-charging batteries, this is something I ive always been told to do. mostly just so you KNOW it was fully charged when put into service.

putting a slightly discharged battery into a vehicle with an known(there must be a reason for changing the battery in the first place) battery/charging/starting issue is just asking for trouble.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

i ha seen this often. mostly with reduced capacity batteries(motorcycles) but the working principle would be the same, given a long enough time frame.


in regard to pre-charging batteries, this is something I ive always been told to do. mostly just so you KNOW it was fully charged when put into service.

putting a slightly discharged battery into a vehicle with an known(there must be a reason for changing the battery in the first place) battery/charging/starting issue is just asking for trouble.

That's interesting, first I have heard of pre-charging batteries. Again the principle remains the same; depending on how "smart" your charger is and/or what settings you use will be a large factor into whether or not you are damaging the battery. For example, if you're using a smart charger that ramps down current and voltage as it detects the SOC (State of Charge) of the battery, then it wouldn't be an issue. But if you're "dumb" charger is just set to 14-15v @ 8amps, you will more than likely over charge the battery and start doing damage if its left overnight on a fully charged battery.

That being said, I do like to make sure why a battery has failed before putting a new one in. Typically it is mainly due to age, but I do like to do further testing if I suspect charging/starting/parasitic draws, to rule out premature failure of the new battery.

 

[Ask10]

I'm confused, why do you induce a charge on brand new batteries? I understand that they can lose a bit of juice on the shelf, but usually they are either sold/turned around before they get anywhere near bad enough from my understanding.

That's why. I've also been told that lead acid batteries, particularly starter batteries, like to stay 95-100% charge or else they will deteriorate quicker. No idea of if that's true or not, I am not expert, but since I place all my vehicles on a boat trickle charger (has a computer chip or something inside, supposedly it's smart?) I have usually had good luck with battery life. Usually I'll get 5-7 years out of a battery before it's gone (made 8 years on my Hyundai).

Also, the "original battery" was 5 years old ("OEM" from Toyota), and it tested bad, so that's why the new battery. This new one (Panasonic? I think that's the brand) hasn't given me any issues except that one time, so I'm putting it down to a fluke at the moment.