Is DIY regearing really plausible for a shade tree mechanic?

[weekendclimber]

The question is in the title. I've been contemplating re-rearing front and rear and am wondering if this is something I can feasibly take on myself. I've gone through the information on Zuk's site (Toyota Gear Install Harrop) and many other various websites and youtube videos. I'm fully aware of all the issues that surround messing something like this up, including destroying gears and stranding myself if not done properly. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to rebuild both the front and rear diffs at the same time.

I've done all the recent maintenance on my truck just because a). I enjoy it (masochist) b). It gives me confidence in my rig since I know if it breaks I can fix it c). I know that it's been done properly.

I guess, what I'm looking for is either encouragement or discouragement. I've done TP/WP, brake rebuilds, valve cover gaskets, and various other maintenance previously. I've got the tools or the means to purchase any I might need. I'm actually considering purchasing a used 3rd member and rebuilding that and then swapping out the factory one. That way I can swap them in the event that I've messed something up on the rebuilt 3rd. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can get by drving without the front diff installed if you put a cutoff CV in and torque it down.

Anyway, opinions, criticisms, and concerns are welcome.

 

[I_bRAD]

I say go for it. Sounds like you've got some decent experience under your belt. Worst case is it breaks and you learn something and do it again.

 

[mtbtim]

Hey Scott, I've considered tackling something like this as well. A DIYer can do this but you are right that this type of work can be easily screwed up. I still don't know if I'll take on this challenge. My buddy Jordan has used Zuk for differential work. Many I know have used East Coast Gear Supply. While it pains me to pay for work, this is one I might decide to let the "Experts" do for me. Guys like Zuk and East Coast Gear Supply do this day in and day out and have probably made mistakes along the way that they've learned from. We get one shot at it, and if we screw up, we lost a significant amount of time and money not to mention becoming stranded somewhere.

I'm thinking of adding an ARB locker to my front diff and the easiest route is to just order a clamshell from ECGS and do the swap so I can send them back my OEM clamshell to satisfy the core charge.

 

[Peadog]

I've done a few makes. Dana 44, 12 bolt truck and 12 bolt passenger car. The gears and install kit came with instructions and most important pictures of what to look for in the pattern on the gears. I would give it a go if I were you.

 

[weekendclimber]

Hey Scott, I've considered tackling something like this as well. A DIYer can do this but you are right that this type of work can be easily screwed up. I still don't know if I'll take on this challenge. My buddy Jordan has used Zuk for differential work. Many I know have used East Coast Gear Supply. While it pains me to pay for work, this is one I might decide to let the "Experts" do for me. Guys like Zuk and East Coast Gear Supply do this day in and day out and have probably made mistakes along the way that they've learned from. We get one shot at it, and if we screw up, we lost a significant amount of time and money not to mention becoming stranded somewhere.

I'm thinking of adding an ARB locker to my front diff and the easiest route is to just order a clamshell from ECGS and do the swap so I can send them back my OEM clamshell to satisfy the core charge.

I was actually hoping you would reply to this [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] :hail:.

For me, it's not necessarily a money/time thing and I know the reputation of both Zuk and ECGS is gold. I feel it's more of a pride thing which, let's be honest, has gotten most everyone in trouble before. I feel that it's doable if the proper time is taken, at least from what I've learned.

It seems that you're a bit on the fence on doing this as well. Is there any particular concern that's stopping you? I pretty confidant that if I take the time to get the PPL, CBPL, backlash, and gear pattern correct I'll be good to do. Just not sure if I'm missing something.

 

[mtbtim]

I was actually hoping you would reply to this [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] :hail:.

For me, it's not necessarily a money/time thing and I know the reputation of both Zuk and ECGS is gold. I feel it's more of a pride thing which, let's be honest, has gotten most everyone in trouble before. I feel that it's doable if the proper time is taken, at least from what I've learned.

It seems that you're a bit on the fence on doing this as well. Is there any particular concern that's stopping you? I pretty confidant that if I take the time to get the PPL, CBPL, backlash, and gear pattern correct I'll be good to do. Just not sure if I'm missing something.

[MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I have challenged ourselves with lots of things on these rigs. Most of the videos we've made are us doing the job for the very first time. We consult the FSM, consult any existing write-ups or videos and then we go for it learning as we go.

I've just looked at this and it seems fairly involved. For what I was looking to do, adding an ARB locker, I only found one video on it and the detail wasn't really there to give me the confidence to tackle it. I know the kits come with install instructions. I just wonder how well they are written and whether I'm going to get deep into tearing it apart and then be lost because the instructions suck. The finances are a factor for me because I'd hate to destroy a $1000 ARB locker due to my inexperience.

I totally get the pride thing. I like being self sufficient doing all my own work. Some things I am willing to pay for like welding because I don't own a welder and I have no experience welding. But, welding is something I want to learn at some point.

If you're not risking an expensive locker, I'd say go for it. If you're risking damaging an expensive component like an ARB locker, that's something you'd probably want to give more thought to before taking the plunge.

 

[Hopeless Diamond]

I think the "art" is in setting the backlash and bearing pre-loads, etc. Having a good fixture to hold the carrier and then good dial gauges, etc. is where most of us fall short. Like most things, having the right tools is half the battle. And a lot of patience...

 

[Scramble]

I was actually hoping you would reply to this [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] :hail:.

For me, it's not necessarily a money/time thing and I know the reputation of both Zuk and ECGS is gold. I feel it's more of a pride thing which, let's be honest, has gotten most everyone in trouble before. I feel that it's doable if the proper time is taken, at least from what I've learned.

It seems that you're a bit on the fence on doing this as well. Is there any particular concern that's stopping you? I pretty confidant that if I take the time to get the PPL, CBPL, backlash, and gear pattern correct I'll be good to do. Just not sure if I'm missing something.

You sound like you're mentaly prepared to do it. I say go for it.

 

[thegipper]

There are a few things I've decided to never touch, gears are one of them. You really need experience and the right tools to do it right. I've swapped out the 3rd member which is actually pretty easy but that's the extent of my "gear work".

I'm not saying it can be done, but I'll leave stuff like gears and tranny rebuilds to the experts.

Maybe you can find someone that has experience that can at least walk you through it the first time (in person not a write up).

 

[phattyduck]

I pretty confidant that if I take the time to get the PPL, CBPL, backlash, and gear pattern correct I'll be good to do. Just not sure if I'm missing something.

There's your key word.

Gears and engine/transmission rebuilds are basically the one thing I haven't done yet. Yet. For that stuff, I'd want to learn from somebody I trust, in person working side-by-side.

That said, there are many people who have figured it out. It isn't rocket surgery - and even if it was, people have also figured that out too...

-Charlie

 

[kolelt]

Me and my friend replaced the bearings on my elocker differential. So we had to take it all apart and put it all back together. It’s pretty straight forward.

 

[weekendclimber]

I really do appreciate all the input. [MENTION=193907]Hopeless Diamond[/MENTION], [MENTION=7105]Scramble[/MENTION], [MENTION=138943]thegipper[/MENTION], [MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION], [MENTION=99565]kolelt[/MENTION], [MENTION=85414]I_bRAD[/MENTION], [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] and [MENTION=153476]Peadog[/MENTION], thank you for your input.

It would be great to have someone who has done it before watching me over and giving me the pro tips. Not sure if that would happen, but would definitely be a bonus. I'm still heavily leaning on doing it myself. I think the fact that I'd rebuild a secondary pumpkin and take my time with each step to get them right is the way to go.

 

[Peadog]

You'll have the pattern and the backlash numbers to verify you did the job correctly. Use thread locker where the directions say and an accurate torque wrench. Be careful and patient and all will be well.

 

[absalom]

Ok, so from my math, the master install kit is $245 and then R&P are $225. A completely and professionally setup 3rd member is $660. Assuming you don't need ANY extra tools, you stand to save a maximum of $190.

Coming from one of the more frugal, DIY guys on the forums, I just don't see where the value is to do it myself. There are so many great ways to save huge money wrenching on your own truck, I'm just not sure this one of those.

 

[mtbtim]

Ok, so from my math, the master install kit is $245 and then R&P are $225. A completely and professionally setup 3rd member is $660. Assuming you don't need ANY extra tools, you stand to save a maximum of $190.

Coming from one of the more frugal, DIY guys on the forums, I just don't see where the value is to do it myself. There are so many great ways to save huge money wrenching on your own truck, I'm just not sure this one of those.

I think the OP just wants to take on the challenge and prove to himself he can do it. It's not really the money savings, it's the sense of accomplishment. The challenge and sense of accomplishment are some of my main motivating factors to turn a wrench as well.

Like I said above, the main deterrent for me to taking something like this on is the fear I might screw up and ruin the expensive locker I purchased.

 

[mtbtim]

I think the "art" is in setting the backlash and bearing pre-loads, etc. Having a good fixture to hold the carrier and then good dial gauges, etc. is where most of us fall short. Like most things, having the right tools is half the battle. And a lot of patience...

I agree. I actually priced one of those tuning fork looking things you can attach to your bench to hold the 3rd member securely while you work on it. They are not inexpensive. If you know how to fabricate, you could make one for much less. The ones I've seen are over $300.

Here's one from OTC: https://www.amazon.com/OTC-7020-Ben...ork+bench+differential+holder#customerReviews

 

[theesotericone]

Coming from one of the more frugal, DIY guys on the forums, I just don't see where the value is to do it myself. There are so many great ways to save huge money wrenching on your own truck, I'm just not sure this one of those.

I think the OP just wants to take on the challenge and prove to himself he can do it. It's not really the money savings, it's the sense of accomplishment

IMO both of those are valid points.

A quick analogy that came to mind is can a competent DIY homeowner do a kitchen remodel. The answer is yes. Would that lead to a perfect kitchen? Probably not.

The difference is your kitchen walls being 1/4" out of plumb, or your cabinets not being perfectly level, probably won't be noticed by anyone other than a carpenter.

If your backlash is wrong, you'll notice pretty quick.

I consider myself a very competent "shadetree" mechanic. I've done everything on my rig myself. Except for my lockers and gears. I let ECGS handle that for me. Could I have done it? Yep. Was it worth the extra 200 bucks to have a very competent company backing them with a 5 year warranty do it? IMO, absolutely.

 

[thezentree]

Ok, so from my math, the master install kit is $245 and then R&P are $225. A completely and professionally setup 3rd member is $660. Assuming you don't need ANY extra tools, you stand to save a maximum of $190.

Coming from one of the more frugal, DIY guys on the forums, I just don't see where the value is to do it myself. There are so many great ways to save huge money wrenching on your own truck, I'm just not sure this one of those.

And then there's the opportunity cost. You could spend two weekends wrangling differentials and repeatedly rebuilding them until the pattern was right, or you could shell out a couple hundred extra, spend a day just swapping diffs, and now you've got 3 extra days to go break those gears in!

 

[Inv4drZm]

ECGS is the way to go. Use the dropout 3rd member design to your advantage. Order a built gearset with solid pinion spacer and install it in 1-2 hours with a 5 year warranty. Buy a used gearset from a member on here for $200 for a "trail spare".

 

[weekendclimber]

Ok, so from my math, the master install kit is $245 and then R&P are $225. A completely and professionally setup 3rd member is $660. Assuming you don't need ANY extra tools, you stand to save a maximum of $190.

As for the cost, I'm going to be doing both front and rear. I've priced gear install kits for $935 at justdifferentials.com. In addition to that, I'm planning to add on a new flange for the rear (the kit comes with the front yoke) and remove the front needle bearings and replace it with a solid bushing. That'll add another ~$100. I've already got a Aussie Locker for the rear that I would install as well.

The built diffs from ECGS are a total of $1400, plus about another $100 for shipping the cores back to them.

That's a cost savings of approximately $450 that I could invest in the proper tools that I get to keep.

I think the OP just wants to take on the challenge and prove to himself he can do it. It's not really the money savings, it's the sense of accomplishment. The challenge and sense of accomplishment are some of my main motivating factors to turn a wrench as well.

Like I said above, the main deterrent for me to taking something like this on is the fear I might screw up and ruin the expensive locker I purchased.

I definitely love being able to say "I built that!". I also think that adding to the pile of tools that I can keep also is a plus.

I agree. I actually priced one of those tuning fork looking things you can attach to your bench to hold the 3rd member securely while you work on it. They are not inexpensive. If you know how to fabricate, you could make one for much less. The ones I've seen are over $300.

Here's one from OTC: https://www.amazon.com/OTC-7020-Benc...ustomerReviews

I was planning on building this as I have some basic welding skills. Something akin to what you see on Zuks workbench in all his photos.

Image from Zuk:

IMO both of those are valid points.

A quick analogy that came to mind is can a competent DIY homeowner do a kitchen remodel. The answer is yes. Would that lead to a perfect kitchen? Probably not.

The difference is your kitchen walls being 1/4" out of plumb, or your cabinets not being perfectly level, probably won't be noticed by anyone other than a carpenter.

If your backlash is wrong, you'll notice pretty quick.

I consider myself a very competent "shadetree" mechanic. I've done everything on my rig myself. Except for my lockers and gears. I let ECGS handle that for me. Could I have done it? Yep. Was it worth the extra 200 bucks to have a very competent company backing them with a 5 year warranty do it? IMO, absolutely.

The warranty is definitely something to consider. Basically, in my mind, it factors into a trade off between getting some extra tools to do the job or having the warranty for the diffs. This is where the real decision lies IMHO.