Is "Frozen" Lower Control Arms a "Thing"?

[Kistle]

I did some searching but didn't find much on this. A couple mentions on some old / high-mileage 4th Gens, but I couldn't find anything at all on 5th Gens.

I am ready to move forward on a lift on my 2011 SR5 4Runner (75K miles, garaged, driven in the Midwest and Colorado). I was chatting with the guys behind the counter at the local 4 Wheel Parts shop. They said that I should check to see if the bushings on my lower control arms are "frozen", because if they are, you will have to cut them off and install new LCAs so that the vehicle can be aligned after the lift is installed.

I don't necessarily mind the cost, or replacing them, but I just would prefer to avoid getting started and then have my truck out of commission while I stop and source new LCAs.

Is this something that people who are doing lifts are running into? I have read a LOT of threads here about lifts, and I can't remember any reference to anyone mentioning this issue. Thought I would check directly before the dollars and tools start flying.

Thanks!!!

JA

 

[jrandom]

Sure they can, well the nut and bolts can get rust welded. The LCA should still pivot, though.

My last experience, my truck (the one I have now) was less than a year old, one Utah winter, I installed a new set of coil overs, I pulled the LCA bolts and they had already begun to rust. I cleaned them and slopped marine grade anti-seize all over them. I am due for a shock rebuild here pretty soon, I am curious to see how they are doing.

 

[alphabeast]

I have a 2014 and just installed a lift. I removed the LCA bolts and cams and coated everything with anti-sieze. There was quite a bit of rust and I could see this being possible... but cutting them? That seems to be the absolute worst case scenario.

 

[jrandom]

OP has an SR5, could always replace with some TC lower control arms :

 

[BWFBezerk]

I'm a mechanic in the rust belt. Probably every 5th control arm I do has to be cut out like they explained. The bolt getting rusted to the nut usually isn't an issue, a little heat on the nut will break it free. What happens is the bolt rusts itself to the metal sleeve inside the control arm bushing. Gotta cut through the arm and the bushing to free the bolt if it needs to be saved. If it's a common bolt we'll cut the head and any threads sticking out the other side off and get a new bolt.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yes, EVERY cam/sleeve lower control arm SUV/Vehicle out their will end up having them fuse together (not just Toyota, it's just the side effect of the design).

The reason is because the bolt goes through a relatively tight sleeve that goes through the bushings of the lower control arm. The sleeves are then pinched in place by the frame when the bolt is tightened (the cam plates rest on the frame and locate the Lower control arm to your desired setting via an oblong hole). So what happens is moisture collects in those gaps and rust sets in, the bolts will fuse to the sleeves and the cam plates can sometimes fuse to the frame. Basically making it impossible to remove and/or adjust.

You have to cut the bolts between the frame and the bushing sleeve and then clean and replace everything (it's a royal pain to replace the bushings in the Lower Control Arm as you basically have to burn them out and then press new ones in and then have the lower control arm repainted/finished).

When I replaced the cam tabs in my 4th gen I went all out and rebuilt an extra set of LCA I had in the shop. I went for poly-urethane bushings and all new factory hardware. I then applied anti-seize to all bearing/sleeve surfaces of the bolts (not on the threads though) to reduce the likelihood they would seize because of rust. It's not a 100% guarantee but so far it's been holding up good.

(Here's a picture of all my shiny new stuff before it went into the 4th gen so you can see how the bolts go through the bushings and the cam tabs and their oblong hole before they're welded on the frame)

Realistically speaking once the alignment is set (in regards to Caster/Camber) they shouldn't need to be set again for a long while unless you bend something. At least that's the reasoning from a stock standpoint, as we all know once you start lifting and tweaking the truck, alignments become a bit more common until you've settled into your sweet spot.

 

[Kistle]

GREAT info!!! So it IS a thing. I understood it exactly as BWFBezerk and BlackWorksInc described it. That's EXACTLY how the guy at 4 Wheel Parts described it. I guess you just DON'T know until you get in there. Odd that no one here mentions encountering this with all the lift installs on the forum.

In order to avoid having my truck down by finding this only after I am mid-way through the lift install, I may just jack it up and loosen the bolts to see if they rotate freely within the bushing sleeve now. If they do, then I will proceed with the install and also clean them up and coat them with anti-sieze. If they don't rotate freely, then I will likely go ahead and just order new LCAs before I begin the install.

Funny that someone mention TC (Total Chaos)! I am just about the ideal sucker to fall for the "while you are in there" and do something like that slippery slope!!

Thank much, guys. When I get a chance to tear into it, I will post my findings in this thread.

JA

 

[BlackWorksInc]

GREAT info!!! So it IS a thing. I understood it exactly as BlackWorksInc described it. That's EXACTLY how the guy at 4 Wheel Parts described it. I guess you just DON'T know until you get in there. Odd that no one here mentions encountering this with all the lift installs on the forum.

In order to avoid having my truck down by finding this only after I am mid-way through the lift install, I may just jack it up and loosen the bolts to see if they rotate freely within the bushing sleeve now. If they do, then I will proceed with the install and also clean them up and coat them with anti-sieze. If they don't rotate freely, then I will likely go ahead and just order new LCAs before I begin the install.

Funny that someone mention TC (Total Chaos)! I am just about the ideal sucker to fall for the "while you are in there" and do something like that slippery slope!!

Thank much, guys. When I get a chance to tear into it, I will post my findings in this thread.

JA

Well I mean most people don't notice it probably until you get it aligned and the shop tells you the cams are seized. You can actually install/remove the front coilovers without loosening the LCAs (which most people wouldn't want to do as it messes up your alignment). Mostly a giant prybar and your hip is enough to push the LCA down enough to pop the coilover out, that's how I do it at work on a lot of cars so you don't have to adjust Camber/Caster.

The Total Chaos alignment tabs are a good upgrade, the factory ones can be bent somewhat easily if you force them or your LCAs are a bit rusty. That being said, for most non-rust horror stories soaking the fack out of the LCA bushings, bolts, and cams gives you just enough movement to get it in spec most of the time. But on your rustier vehicles it may need cutting/replacement of the LCAs. IF you're going to have them replaced and you're going to off-road it a bit or just have a ton of weight added (i.e. bumpers, heavier tires, skid plates, ect.) it wouldn't hurt to get a quote for installing the beefier tabs. You don't have to do it, but it wouldn't hurt if you're going to heavily modify the vehicle and you're already replacing the LCAs.

But on a fairly light-use off-road vehicle or not heavily loaded/modified, having the cams torqued to the proper spec will be enough. I went with them on my vehicle because I felt it was worth the upgrade given I'm running 35's and a lot of extra weight and my tabs were already bending a bit from a lot of jumping/rough-housing in the 4th gen.

 

[Kistle]

Thanks for the pro advice, BlackWorksInc....VERY much appreciated. Incredible access to experience here on T4R.

And by "alignment tabs", I assume you mean these reinforced blocks?



Since at this point I plan on doing all of the lift install myself, and not getting a shop involved at all (other than for alignment), I think I will probably skip those for now. If I do something crazy (like 35s, ), I may consider them at that point.

Awesome info...wow! Wish I was near Bend...would pop in and say hello!

Thanks,

JA

 

[comtn4x4]

I am going through this right now as well. I had a lot of trouble getting the problem correctly diagnosed. It was originally misdiagnosed by a generic shop who did a tire install and alignment for me, then Toyota claimed they replaced the bolt, and then after the problem persisted they claimed the issue was with my aftermarket suspension. Long story short, Hi Country 4x4 correctly diagnosed the issue. I decided to replace the control arms altogether with the Moog arms. It's getting done next week at the same time as my re gear.

 

[mikey's2010SR5]

When i had my LT pt in, one of the old bolts froze and had to be cut out. So yes it is a thing.

 

[Arc.]

I'm in Colorado and have a 2011. Went 5 years without an alignment because it drove straight as an arrow with a mild lift. Went in to get an alignment a year ago and dealership said the lower cam bolts were seized and wanted $2500 to cut and install new lca and everything else. I left. Found a local shop that deals with this all the time. They got one free but had to cut the other out, got new cam bolt from dealership and I was on my way.

Guess I shouldn't go that long without getting an alignment?