Is Toyota failing to adapt to what customers want?
- Thread starter Porqupine82
- Start date
Toyota's Altruism
In other news... One thing they used to do (always) is to redesign the 4R every 7 or 8 years. No more. No wonder the 4R has fallen out of the top 20 in SUV sales. Clearly, Toyota doesn't need to sell 4Rs. They make them altruistically as a personal favor to we few, we happy few, we band of brothers...
Yet here we sit not forging them a medal.
In other news... One thing they used to do (always) is to redesign the 4R every 7 or 8 years. No more. No wonder the 4R has fallen out of the top 20 in SUV sales. Clearly, Toyota doesn't need to sell 4Rs. They make them altruistically as a personal favor to we few, we happy few, we band of brothers...
Yet here we sit not forging them a medal.
Interesting thread. For those of you commenting "Another one of those Threads" keep in mind that this is new stuff to new members like myself. And yes I know about the search option, but bumping year old threads is also frowned upon.
The only thing I can add to the discussion is when will Toyota bring back the V8 ? I think that would satisfy a lot of customers wanting more power for towing.
The only thing I can add to the discussion is when will Toyota bring back the V8 ? I think that would satisfy a lot of customers wanting more power for towing.
wadle5
New member
They wont offer it in the 4runner. They purposefully want you to pay a premium to get that v8 whether its a gx460 or even the mystical Landcruiser!
I have a 2016 TRD PRO that I am planning on selling and I want to buy a 4th Gen with a V8. The reason for selling is not about the power. I really do like my TRD PRO, it's more about having a paid in full reliable 4runner. I've been devouring the 4th Gen forum to get more information about them.
wadle5
New member
Interesting change of events. Not often do you see a 5th gen going to a 4th gen. Either way welcome to the fun crowd haha!
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Don't get me wrong. I really do love the 5th Gen TRD PRO, but I started reading Dave Ramsey and we are starting to do the Baby Steps. The payment is killing me. I also made the mistake of carrying over $10,000 for a 2015 Tacoma when traded it in and bought the TRD PRO. I could keep it and pay it off in 3 years or I could sell it and buy a fully paid for 4th Gen. Down the the road I should be able to get another TRD PRO, but for now I would need something that will last me until I get to that point. My 2 choices for vehicles are 2007-2008 Acura TL type S or a 4th Gen 4runner. Both of them have great reputations for reliability. My only concern is a 4runner with close to 175,00 miles on it and if would last me years until I could be in a place were I could fully pay CASH for a future TRD PRO.
RAD4Runner
Senior Member
I owned one of these in Oz a few years back, I'd buy another one.
Are the workhorse versions reasonably priced or as expensive as the luxury LC's here in the U.S.?
My kind of Yota, but the fender is not a cool as the 80's generation...
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wadle5
New member
Nope makes perfect sense. And props to you on the common sense although how hard it would be to get rid of a TRD PRO. Benefit I guess would be they hold their value like crazy at least.
Definitely 2 different options you are looking at. Obviously one is more sporty and one is just more capable off road. Where do you see yourself spending more time?
In regards to mileage as always I wouldn’t be concerned about mileage as much as previous maintenance, but I get it. I am around 150k now with my v6 4th gen and the thing still just feels/drives/sounds solid. I also have done most maintenance myself besides big ticket items.
Also to save money I would look maybe around here in the Midwest. While the v8s definitely do demand a higher dollar they at least aren’t as astronomically high as they are down south and on the coast.
Anyways good luck with the change, and the reality is I love my 4th gen and the little features it has that isn’t on 5th gens.
spartacus
Senior Member
I read it somewhere that cockroaches and 4runners will be the only survivors of a nuclear holocaust. I bought my 4Runner sr5 4x4 in 2000 and with 386000 miles a lot of them overlanding pulling bike trailer, popup campers, boat trailer. When it was in an accident and the insurance company wanted to total it out I refused and litigation insued during which time I litrally test drove every make of suv and truck and then bought a 2016 4runner sr5 4x4. At the time my wife drove a 2014 Merc glk 350 the car had niece seats and luxuries galore but it had to go into the dealer for warranty work, transmission issues , software updates' noise from transmission etc. I won and the insurance company fixed my 4runner meanwhile somehow my wife started to drive my 5th gen t4r and i drove the merc she liked it so much that we sold the Merc back to the dealer November 2016. Why would this women give up a luxurious glk in favor of plain Jane 4runner?Answer, it drives good not as luxurious, nimble or powerful as the merc but dependable and reliable. she is not a loyalist she just doesn't want to be calling her husband driving home saying the car keeps going into limp mode pulling over on the side of the highway turning it off then on. ( only happened twice and they fixed it under warranty) but she lost her confidence in the car. I wil take reliabilty over luxury in a heartbeat. it blows stranded on the side of the road with a luxurious, powerful vehicle sitting in the comfortable seats.
Toffees
Member
You make a few valid points in that Toyota should provide more useful options; they're not Honda bad (as in Honda basically has 0 options on most models, you just pick the trim), but Toyota isn't in the business of providing many options.
Still, in short: no, who cares, you're weird, and Toyota sales have been ok.
wadle5
New member
You make a few valid points in that Toyota should provide more useful options; they're not Honda bad (as in Honda basically has 0 options on most models, you just pick the trim), but Toyota isn't in the business of providing many options.
Still, in short: no, who cares, you're weird, and Toyota sales have been ok.
I just laughed out loud at the 4 single s-10s that sold haha!
Toffees
Member
I'm sure I have some typos there, but that was an actual number! Surely leftover from 2003 trucks. I didn't look it up, but I'm guessing there were no 2013 Colorados as well, but maybe sold a few 2015s in late 2014? At any rate, terrible numbers for the Ranger and S10/Colorado for most of the last 12 or so years. Surely they will sell a few of the new models, but I'm more interested to see if they stick than what they're actually capable of doing off road.
And maybe the OP isn't weird, but this topic is certainly not a stimulating one
nimby
New member
As mentioned earlier, the 4Runner is not intended to be a top seller or a class leader for Toyota. It is more of a niche vehicle, but it still does pretty well in sales.
Tied to this is the fact that it's much cheaper for Toyota to do fewer upgrades on a vehicle. If something is proven, reliable, and people are still buying it then why change it?
But I understand what you're saying. I really wish I could get Safety Sense, Apple Carplay, and better gas mileage in a 4Runner. I'm sure this deters a few people from buying, but not enough to make a significant impact on sales.
Tied to this is the fact that it's much cheaper for Toyota to do fewer upgrades on a vehicle. If something is proven, reliable, and people are still buying it then why change it?
But I understand what you're saying. I really wish I could get Safety Sense, Apple Carplay, and better gas mileage in a 4Runner. I'm sure this deters a few people from buying, but not enough to make a significant impact on sales.
LandCruiser
New member
I paid 46,000 AUD for a 1.5 year old one 10 years ago.
They're like 50-60k right now which puts them in the same price range as 4Runners if we're talking about USD.
Jeep can make about 30,000 Wranglers a month, but that doesn't seem to keeping up with the demand. You might look at the high price and imagine FCA is overcharging. An economist would look at the backlog of orders and imagine FCA is undercharging.
Toyota is happy to sell a decade-old model as new as long as anyone is buying. I don't think they'll sell 360,000 of them this year. Probably not even half of that.
Why change it? To sell more vehicles.
nimby
New member
Toyota could play that game if they wanted to, but it doesn't fit their business model. Their main consumer is the repeat customer. How do they get them to be repeat customers? Reliability.
If Toyota was constantly changing things, reliability would surely go down. They use proven technology, even though it might be older and less sexy than some of their competitors.
toybox
New member
Exactly! Toyota shouldn't get a pass just because they're so reliable. You do have to update things once in a while.
Last year I was looking for a truck to replace my 2007 GMC Sierra. The Sierra gave me fairly reliable service, but not as reliable as I had hoped for. First, it started burning oil at about 80,000 miles. That was an issue GM said was normal usage (about a quart every 1500-2000 miles) and I lived with that until I got rid of it. I replaced the alternator at about 95,000 miles. The rear most u joint gave out at about 110,000 miles. Then there was little stuff I never fixed: radio display would blink at times, the glove box would open if I hit any kind of bump and the 4WD would take a minute or two to engage and was whining the last few months I owned it. It had about 135,000 when I got rid of it. The trade in value was $3900 (granted, the tailgate was damaged, it had a scrape along the driver side rear door and bed, and the tires and brakes were shot). Prior to that, I’d had a 1986 toyota pick up with a 5 speed manual and the venerable 22R motor. I purchased that truck used with 45,000 on the odometer for $4,500 in 1992 from a neighbor. That truck was incredible. I replaced the head gasket at about 240,000 miles and the alternator at some point after that. The bed had rusted away and I ended up selling it to my mechanic at 340,000 miles. He put a wooden box on it and drove it for several more years after that. So, when it came time to buy a new truck, I happily shelled out the coin and purchased a 2017 Crewmax Limited with the premium audio, BSM, TRad Off road package, etc. It was heavily discounted as the ‘18s were rolling in so I paid $42,800 for it. It’s still a baby, just rolled over 10,000 miles and no issues. The GM and Dodge products might be prettier and have better technology, but compare the market value of a used Sierra with 135,000 miles on it to the market value of a similarly equipped Tundra with the same mileage, even assuming equal reliability and durability. IMO, the Tundra is cheaper to run. Plus, it rides great and is great for family trips, everyone has so much space. I couldn’t be happier.
Fast forward to this month. My wife had a 2013 Pilot. We liked the Pilot but it was coming up for a timing belt change (it had 92,000 miles on it), needed new tires, and some other maintainance items. We decided to start looking at new SUVs. She didn’t like the styling of the new Pilot, she prefers the squared off look of old school SUVs. She drove the Acadia, the Highlander, 4Runner and a used Land Cruiser. Of those, she liked the 4 Runner best and we brought it home a SR5 Premium Saturday. I don’t know as much about the 4 Runners as I should but I’m learning. All that being said, both the Tundra and 4 Runner get dogged for being so long in the tooth. IDK, we’re anything but brand loyal, and have both old platform 2017 and 2018 Toyota’s in the garage. Toyota is doing something right.
Fast forward to this month. My wife had a 2013 Pilot. We liked the Pilot but it was coming up for a timing belt change (it had 92,000 miles on it), needed new tires, and some other maintainance items. We decided to start looking at new SUVs. She didn’t like the styling of the new Pilot, she prefers the squared off look of old school SUVs. She drove the Acadia, the Highlander, 4Runner and a used Land Cruiser. Of those, she liked the 4 Runner best and we brought it home a SR5 Premium Saturday. I don’t know as much about the 4 Runners as I should but I’m learning. All that being said, both the Tundra and 4 Runner get dogged for being so long in the tooth. IDK, we’re anything but brand loyal, and have both old platform 2017 and 2018 Toyota’s in the garage. Toyota is doing something right.
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