KDSS and lift height question

I know nothing about lifts and suspensions and this is work I would not be comfortable doing myself. Anyone know of a good place to go in southern UT (St George / Zion area)? Is there anything specific I should request?


Got to rlt suspension. He’s in Utah. Miles is the owner. He’s sells my “ DRkdss”’parts too. He will take care of you.

If you go spacer lift. Don’t do the ones that sit on top of the coil. Get the spacer kit from westscott designs so you geometry in the shock is not changed.


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I have a 2011 TE that is currently stock. I am looking to get it lifted but do not plan on doing any crazy off roading or rock crawling. Probably 90% paved roads and 10% unimproved dirt roads.

I contacted the local Toyota dealer in St. George UT and they want to install a 3" Toytec lift for $3,400. I know nothing about lift kits, but the price seems high to me. I am some what concerned to take to an offroad shop that may not be familiar with KDSS and cause me other repair bills.

Any recommendations or comments on a getting this lifted?

$3400 is nuts. I had mine installed for $685 total. (parts, labor and alignment!!) Of course that was about 5-6 years ago, but I can't imagine the price has gone up 5x.
 
I talked with the Toyota dealer and they said they recommend and are installing the Toytec Aluma Series 2 and that it should be a little under $3,400 for parts and installation.
 
$3400 is nuts. I had mine installed for $685 total. (parts, labor and alignment!!) Of course that was about 5-6 years ago, but I can't imagine the price has gone up 5x.

See previous question for exactly what is included in the $3400 quote [MENTION=779709]cupanther[/MENTION] got. Need more info!

Parts cost will vary wildly depending on exactly what kit is installed —> not apples to apples. And again, $3400 better include complete lift kit parts & install - if not it’s bonkers…

In 2012 I paid +$1800 for my old Toytec Ultimate Lift kit + SPC UCAs - that was PARTS ONLY & I did the install myself. $685 for parts/install/alignment out the door, even 5-6 years ago, is a completely different parts setup on your rig (ie not a Toytec branded Complete Lift Kit) and/or you got a smokin’ deal on the setup and install. I’d believe $685 for a spacer lift parts/install/alignment out the door, not a complete lift kit.

[MENTION=779709]cupanther[/MENTION]’s original question stated “Toytec Lift” - need to clarify if that’s a complete lift kit or just other mfg parts Toytec distributes. If that’s a complete Toytec branded lift kit, that’s a starting point of +$1600 for parts only today (assuming Toytec Ultimate Kit w/o UCAs vs Bilsteins or other less expensive shock kits/parts).

Current 2024 Retail price on the PARTS ONLY for a Toytec Boss 2.5 Kit with Toytec UCAs is $3295:

25BOSS-FJP-ALM - Toytec Boss Aluma Series 2.5 Performance Suspension System (07+FJ Cruiser/03-09 4Runner)

Current 2024 Retail price on the PARTS ONLY for a Toytec Ultimate kit with SPC UCAs is $2358:

UL-FJ210 - 2010+ FJ Cruiser/4Runner Ultimate 3" lift package

Bottom line, gotta make sure it’s an apples to apples comparison for the parts prices first then factor in the labor, etc costs - which will definitely be priced at a premium at a dealership (& DEFINITELY WOULD NOT be my first choice for where to have the work done if it were me!).
 
I have not found a place yet better than the dealer (I have no love for the dealer, but know they do a lot of installs on 4runners). The one place that was recommended to me was not very helpful. Basically told me to figure out what equipment I want, let them know and they would order and install. I was looking for some guidance from a place. The other shop I was familiar with sold to a new owner and have heard only negative things since the change.
 
I talked with the Toyota dealer and they said they recommend and are installing the Toytec Aluma Series 2 and that it should be a little under $3,400 for parts and installation.

Disregard the previous post, didn’t see your update while I was typing!

Ask if it also includes new UCAs - parts retail price for that kit with Toytec UCAs is $2594:

TTBOSS-4R210ALM - Toytec BOSS Aluma Series Suspension System (10+ 4Runner)

If they guarantee the work and that a master mechanic does the install then I’d say it’s not completely unreasonable, especially w/o having another recommendation in Jeezy to suggest. Several top notch options for having the work done in SLC but that only adds extra travel/logistics cost & headaches.

Good luck!
 
Got to rlt suspension. He’s in Utah. Miles is the owner. He’s sells my “ DRkdss”’parts too. He will take care of you.

If you go spacer lift. Don’t do the ones that sit on top of the coil. Get the spacer kit from westscott designs so you geometry in the shock is not changed.


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RLT Suspension is probably a great option but they’re located in Salt Lake City. That’s +4.5 hours away from St George, UT where [MENTION=779709]cupanther[/MENTION] is located (Las Vegas would be a closer option than SLC for him fyi).
 
I have a 2011 TE that is currently stock. I am looking to get it lifted but do not plan on doing any crazy off roading or rock crawling. Probably 90% paved roads and 10% unimproved dirt roads.

I contacted the local Toyota dealer in St. George UT and they want to install a 3" Toytec lift for $3,400. I know nothing about lift kits, but the price seems high to me. I am some what concerned to take to an offroad shop that may not be familiar with KDSS and cause me other repair bills.

Any recommendations or comments on a getting this lifted?

There's really nothing special about installing a lift with KDSS. Any competent shop should have no problem working with it.

A few tips:

The lift height has no influence on tire fitment unless you're changing the mounting points on the IFS (bracket lift) or going to a long travel suspension.

The lower lift heights will drive better. The high angle front lower control arm position of taller lifts inherently transfers more bump into the chassis. There is nothing any shock setup can do about that. But the shock choice does matter a lot for ride quality. You will also have more useful suspension travel and articulation keeping the lift height relatively moderate. I think around 1-2 inches is ideal balance. YMMV.

KDSS solves the body roll issues generally. So I would not recommend matching KDSS with digressive valved shocks. It gets pretty harsh at that point. I would look for linear or progressive shock valving, and I would tend to look on the softer side. IMO the Fox 2.0 snap rings or ICON snap rings would be a great choice as a moderately priced lift option. ICON IIRC are digressive in rebound only, but nearly linear in compression and are pretty soft. Ride quality is excellent. And price is great too for what you get. There are other good options as well. Just depends on budget and needs. The best thing you could do is actually drive a few with different shock setups to see what you like.

I had Fox 2.5 Factory Race RR on mine. They worked well. If I were buying again - I would buy from Accutune or another similar shop and have them valved softer. I have the Fox 2.0 on my Tundra - it's not an offroad truck, just a daily driver and tow vehicle. The valving is excellent on them. Significantly nicer to daily drive than the 2.5s.

There are a lot of different lifts sold by toytec, so $3400 is either way overpriced or fairly priced depending on what setup they are installing.

If you lift over about 2 inches you'll want new upper control arms that fix the caster issue. The suspension loses caster angle as you lift it. It's due to the effect of the uneven A arm radius arcs and the axis of the two arms. The lower control arm adjustments run out of adjustment room and the most common "fix" is upper arms that have slightly different geometry. If you don't want a lot of maintenance - look for upper control arms with ball joints not spherical bearings (also called uniballs). Ive tested a variety of options.

I recommend looking for upper control arms with rubber OEM style bushings and ball joints that are not proprietary. There are a variety of reasons, but rubber has the benefit in this application due to the softer material reducing peak loading on the ball joint and the spindle and has plenty of range of flex for the travel of the front suspension.

You do not want Tuff Country upper control arms. If those are offered - ask for something else. They do not correct the geometry properly. Tuff Country Ball Joint UCA Review (Updated w/ specs vs JBA and OEM)

KDSS will always tend to lean some. It's inherent in the nature of the hydraulic system that is unbalanced. The pistons will always have a net force extending them via the accumulator gas pressure acting on the cylinders and the net force area differential of the piston shaft. So it will always push down on the driver's side and would need to be offset by shims or springs on the passenger side or accept a slight lean.

Plan on an alignment when it's done. If the shop isn't including that - make sure you have somewhere do it. Due to the age of your 4Runner, plan on having to replace all of the lower control arm adjustment bolts (cam bolts) and associated hardware. In most cases they will end up needing to be cut out to be removed and replaced. They almost universally seize within the first few years. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll free up, but I would plan on that in your budget.

Good luck!
 
Do I need new UCAs? That was not a part they listed as being included.

I say definitely (and so does Toytec for their Aluma Series lift kits with 2”-3” of front lift).

Lots of threads on this forum debating this exact topic & diving deep into the pros/cons of keeping stock UCAs, different aftermarket options, etc. Grab some popcorn for light reading or as deep of a dive as you want…

Do the angles of stock UCAs with 2”-3” of front lift look weird? Absolutely (at least imo)

Can you get by without them? Possibly (but debatable). Plenty of folks on here have said their lifted rigs drive fine w/o them.

Will it be an extra pain in the a$$ to have to add them later if you can’t get a good alignment post lift? Absolutely. Lots of other folks have experienced this scenario.

Science and data aside - for me, if you’re not also getting new UCAs with a complete suspension lift to “do it right” just save a bunch of your $$ and get a much cheaper spacer lift installed to level things out.
 
There's really nothing special about installing a lift with KDSS. Any competent shop should have no problem working with it.

A few tips:

The lift height has no influence on tire fitment unless you're changing the mounting points on the IFS (bracket lift) or going to a long travel suspension.

The lower lift heights will drive better. The high angle front lower control arm position of taller lifts inherently transfers more bump into the chassis. There is nothing any shock setup can do about that. But the shock choice does matter a lot for ride quality. You will also have more useful suspension travel and articulation keeping the lift height relatively moderate. I think around 1-2 inches is ideal balance. YMMV.

KDSS solves the body roll issues generally. So I would not recommend matching KDSS with digressive valved shocks. It gets pretty harsh at that point. I would look for linear or progressive shock valving, and I would tend to look on the softer side. IMO the Fox 2.0 snap rings or ICON snap rings would be a great choice as a moderately priced lift option. ICON IIRC are digressive in rebound only, but nearly linear in compression and are pretty soft. Ride quality is excellent. And price is great too for what you get. There are other good options as well. Just depends on budget and needs. The best thing you could do is actually drive a few with different shock setups to see what you like.

I had Fox 2.5 Factory Race RR on mine. They worked well. If I were buying again - I would buy from Accutune or another similar shop and have them valved softer. I have the Fox 2.0 on my Tundra - it's not an offroad truck, just a daily driver and tow vehicle. The valving is excellent on them. Significantly nicer to daily drive than the 2.5s.

There are a lot of different lifts sold by toytec, so $3400 is either way overpriced or fairly priced depending on what setup they are installing.

If you lift over about 2 inches you'll want new upper control arms that fix the caster issue. The suspension loses caster angle as you lift it. It's due to the effect of the uneven A arm radius arcs and the axis of the two arms. The lower control arm adjustments run out of adjustment room and the most common "fix" is upper arms that have slightly different geometry. If you don't want a lot of maintenance - look for upper control arms with ball joints not spherical bearings (also called uniballs). Ive tested a variety of options.

I recommend looking for upper control arms with rubber OEM style bushings and ball joints that are not proprietary. There are a variety of reasons, but rubber has the benefit in this application due to the softer material reducing peak loading on the ball joint and the spindle and has plenty of range of flex for the travel of the front suspension.

You do not want Tuff Country upper control arms. If those are offered - ask for something else. They do not correct the geometry properly. Tuff Country Ball Joint UCA Review (Updated w/ specs vs JBA and OEM)

KDSS will always tend to lean some. It's inherent in the nature of the hydraulic system that is unbalanced. The pistons will always have a net force extending them via the accumulator gas pressure acting on the cylinders and the net force area differential of the piston shaft. So it will always push down on the driver's side and would need to be offset by shims or springs on the passenger side or accept a slight lean.

Plan on an alignment when it's done. If the shop isn't including that - make sure you have somewhere do it. Due to the age of your 4Runner, plan on having to replace all of the lower control arm adjustment bolts (cam bolts) and associated hardware. In most cases they will end up needing to be cut out to be removed and replaced. They almost universally seize within the first few years. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll free up, but I would plan on that in your budget.

Good luck!

I always thought this too, KDSS if anything will lean to the passenger side (right side). Then I noticed our GX leans to the driver's side lol! I have no explanation.
 
I always thought this too, KDSS if anything will lean to the passenger side (right side). Then I noticed our GX leans to the driver's side lol! I have no explanation.

Factory springs and shocks are location specific (this depends on year with the 4Runner). Toyota corrects for the lean with the OEM suspension and it will vary slightly to either direction a bit. But the slightly longer factory coils on the passenger side should result in a pretty level setup.

I could probably search it on here where I did a more precise calculation of it. But my memory is that the KDSS piston is about 20mm diameter shaft. With 500psi in the accumulators it would have a downward force on both pistons of about 300lb. That doesn't translate to 300lbs of lift because it still has a lever arm to the axle that will make it less net lean. I'd have to do a beam force calculation, but my memory is that it would be something like 100ish lbs of force at the end of the sway bar resulting in around 1/2" net lean to the passenger side if there was no suspension correction with stock 180lb/in rear springs and 580lb/in front coils. It's not a lot of lean.
 
Factory springs and shocks are location specific (this depends on year with the 4Runner). Toyota corrects for the lean with the OEM suspension and it will vary slightly to either direction a bit. But the slightly longer factory coils on the passenger side should result in a pretty level setup.

I could probably search it on here where I did a more precise calculation of it. But my memory is that the KDSS piston is about 20mm diameter shaft. With 500psi in the accumulators it would have a downward force on both pistons of about 300lb. That doesn't translate to 300lbs of lift because it still has a lever arm to the axle that will make it less net lean. I'd have to do a beam force calculation, but my memory is that it would be something like 100ish lbs of force at the end of the sway bar resulting in around 1/2" net lean to the passenger side if there was no suspension correction with stock 180lb/in rear springs and 580lb/in front coils. It's not a lot of lean.

100lbs sounds about right from the old laying on my back and a grunt and fart to get it to line up.

pro tip: use the floor jack under the piston to line up passenger side first and then line up driver side. and switch to drkdss brackets to make it even easier to line up.
 
There's really nothing special about installing a lift with KDSS. Any competent shop should have no problem working with it.

A few tips:

The lift height has no influence on tire fitment unless you're changing the mounting points on the IFS (bracket lift) or going to a long travel suspension.

The lower lift heights will drive better. The high angle front lower control arm position of taller lifts inherently transfers more bump into the chassis. There is nothing any shock setup can do about that. But the shock choice does matter a lot for ride quality. You will also have more useful suspension travel and articulation keeping the lift height relatively moderate. I think around 1-2 inches is ideal balance. YMMV.

KDSS solves the body roll issues generally. So I would not recommend matching KDSS with digressive valved shocks. It gets pretty harsh at that point. I would look for linear or progressive shock valving, and I would tend to look on the softer side. IMO the Fox 2.0 snap rings or ICON snap rings would be a great choice as a moderately priced lift option. ICON IIRC are digressive in rebound only, but nearly linear in compression and are pretty soft. Ride quality is excellent. And price is great too for what you get. There are other good options as well. Just depends on budget and needs. The best thing you could do is actually drive a few with different shock setups to see what you like.

I had Fox 2.5 Factory Race RR on mine. They worked well. If I were buying again - I would buy from Accutune or another similar shop and have them valved softer. I have the Fox 2.0 on my Tundra - it's not an offroad truck, just a daily driver and tow vehicle. The valving is excellent on them. Significantly nicer to daily drive than the 2.5s.

There are a lot of different lifts sold by toytec, so $3400 is either way overpriced or fairly priced depending on what setup they are installing.

If you lift over about 2 inches you'll want new upper control arms that fix the caster issue. The suspension loses caster angle as you lift it. It's due to the effect of the uneven A arm radius arcs and the axis of the two arms. The lower control arm adjustments run out of adjustment room and the most common "fix" is upper arms that have slightly different geometry. If you don't want a lot of maintenance - look for upper control arms with ball joints not spherical bearings (also called uniballs). Ive tested a variety of options.

I recommend looking for upper control arms with rubber OEM style bushings and ball joints that are not proprietary. There are a variety of reasons, but rubber has the benefit in this application due to the softer material reducing peak loading on the ball joint and the spindle and has plenty of range of flex for the travel of the front suspension.

You do not want Tuff Country upper control arms. If those are offered - ask for something else. They do not correct the geometry properly. Tuff Country Ball Joint UCA Review (Updated w/ specs vs JBA and OEM)

KDSS will always tend to lean some. It's inherent in the nature of the hydraulic system that is unbalanced. The pistons will always have a net force extending them via the accumulator gas pressure acting on the cylinders and the net force area differential of the piston shaft. So it will always push down on the driver's side and would need to be offset by shims or springs on the passenger side or accept a slight lean.

Plan on an alignment when it's done. If the shop isn't including that - make sure you have somewhere do it. Due to the age of your 4Runner, plan on having to replace all of the lower control arm adjustment bolts (cam bolts) and associated hardware. In most cases they will end up needing to be cut out to be removed and replaced. They almost universally seize within the first few years. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll free up, but I would plan on that in your budget.

Good luck!

So much much info in this one post thank you!

I'm in the market right now as well for a suspension kit, what would you recommend nowadays? Don't really have a budget, I have a 21 Venture with KDSS. 90% pavement princess and 10% offroad (nothing extreme really just off the beaten path) I want the best ride possible since this is my daily driver, would eventually get front and rear bumper (but thats much later down the road as I start to do more disperse camping etc)
 

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