KDSS Long term reliability?

[Vizguy]

My apologies ahead of time if this has been asked before,
but I did search and could not find much.

What kind of long term reliability does KDSS have?

I usually keep my vehicles for a long time (7+ years).
I've seen many posts where guys have ripped out their XREAS after a while.

I'm now looking seriously at purchasing a new Trail with KDSS.

It appears to fit my check boxes.
1) Daily driver
2) Good Off-road capabilities straight "out of the box"
3) Finally (and most important), I have the wife's blessing to by a new toy :biggrin2:

In my head it's become a SR5 vs Trail issue, as I don't want a Limited.

Thanks

Vizguy - long time lurker, soon to be official 4 Runner owner

 

[GrantK]

My apologies ahead of time if this has been asked before,
but I did search and could not find much.

What kind of long term reliability does KDSS have?

I usually keep my vehicles for a long time (7+ years).
I've seen many posts where guys have ripped out their XREAS after a while.

I'm now looking seriously at purchasing a new Trail with KDSS.

It appears to fit my check boxes.
1) Daily driver
2) Good Off-road capabilities straight "out of the box"
3) Finally (and most important), I have the wife's blessing to by a new toy :biggrin2:

In my head it's become a SR5 vs Trail issue, as I don't want a Limited.

Thanks

Vizguy - long time lurker, soon to be official 4 Runner owner

There are no known long term issues with KDSS. KDSS is different than XREAS both in what it does and how it works. Those that remove XREAS usually do so to install a lift kit. With KDSS you can install a lift and keep KDSS.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

I own a 2013 SR5 4x4, that being said XREAS seems like more of a headache long term than KDSS which is really larger diamtere sway bars and an electronic disconnect allowing more suspension travel. I can't imagine reapirs being costly, and if they were you could always lose it with a lift?

 

[Intruder]

What kind of long term reliability does KDSS have?

Still too early to say on the 4Runner because they've only had it since 2010. Some Land Cruisers have had it for longer so you might want to see if they've had issues. When I researched a couple years ago before buying mine I don't recall seeing anything major.

electronic disconnect allowing more suspension travel.

Actually it isn't electronic, it's hydraulic cylinders. It also doesn't allow more suspension travel, but rather easier articulation of the suspension when the sway bar is disconnected. The travel is limited by the UCA and bump stop, which is the same on all three 5th gen models.

 

[rebelbowtie]

Lexus has been using KDSS since 2004 so do a search on the Lexus forums to see long term reliability. Also I will get flamed by the KDSS fan boys on here but it's a silly gimmick that IMO is better suited for on road driving that off road. If you want maximum flex out of the stock IFS system it's easy to fab a set of quick disconnects and cheaper/more effective for off roading.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

Actually it isn't electronic, it's hydraulic cylinders. It also doesn't allow more suspension travel, but rather easier articulation of the suspension when the sway bar is disconnected. The travel is limited by the UCA and bump stop, which is the same on all three 5th gen models.

Sounds like a fairly simple system, I still can't imagine it having huge reliability issues? XREAS would be more a concern over the long term especially based on issues people have posted about the the extremely high cost of replacement parts.

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

Lexus has been using KDSS since 2004 so do a search on the Lexus forums to see long term reliability. Also I will get flamed by the KDSS fan boys on here but it's a silly gimmick that IMO is better suited for on road driving that off road. If you want maximum flex out of the stock IFS system it's easy to fab a set of quick disconnects and cheaper/more effective for off roading.

I have KDSS. It's a little more than just a gimmick but it does work best onroad and on mild, moderate speed wheeling. Kind of useless for hard core rock crawling but I don't do that with my 4runner anyway. On road, night and day more controlled and stable than the SR5 setup. For hardcore wheeling, get the SR5, add front & rear lockers, sway bar disconnects and you'll have a more capable wheeler.

Kind of the same for the crawl control feature. I don't use it any more but it was very effective in mild situations. Almost like magic. Used it mainly on the beach and it was a much better driver than me. Hard core wheelers would never even consider it.

 

[comp_engineer]

There has been a lot of talk on the forum lately about long term KDSS reliability. Searching, I only have seen a couple instances of failure.

How many people have experienced failures, and was there anything unusual done to the vehicle that could have contributed?

- concerned trail owner

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I think a better question is how do you feel about Toyota quality?

I'll stack up a Toyota (six 4Runners, two pickups prior and current) any day of the week against any other manufacturer foreign or domestic and 99.99% of the time I will win that Pepsi Challenge.

My Trail has KDSS. It only has 900 miles on it. Have I ever once worried that it would not be as dependable as every other Toyota and Toyota part I have owned?

Nope. Not for a minute.

My 2002 I traded in still had the factory exhaust and the factory battery lasted 11 years. My KDSS failing 5-10 years down the road? I am much more worried about the 2016 election.

 

[Greenamphibious]

personally I dont know why anyone would spend the money on it, but as recommended check out the lexus forums if you want a good feel for reliability

 

[Jetboy]

Toyota uses it on its own Baja 1000 race 4runner. Toyota puts it on every flagship SUV. Obviously Toyota believes in it.

I find it primarily beneficial on-road. A sway bar disconnect of the small diameter non KDSS factory sway bar isn't going to give you nearly as good of road manners as KDSS's giant sway bar does. The 5th gen 4runner is a big heavy SUV. After driving an SR5 without KDSS I decided not to buy a new 4runner. It wasn't until a few years later that I drove a Trail with KDSS that I considered buying one - and now I own one. If you came from driving a Suburban or similar - the non-kdss will feel right at home.

Offroad - depends on the situation. It's a body control vs flex tradeoff. A KDSS equipped vehicle will have better body control on side hills and opposing corner flex scenarios. Disconnected swaybars will have an advantage in total flex in most situations, especially with rear long travel.

I don't know that reliability is a big concern. It's not rocket science. Just hydraulic cylinders. It should be no more or less reliable than your brakes. A few have had issues. Most have not. It's not like Land Rover air springs that you just expect to replace one a year.

 

[K9trainer]

Wouldn't there be more concern between the SR5 4wd shift actuators vs TRAIL W/KDSS.

 

[Jetboy]

Wouldn't there be more concern between the SR5 4wd shift actuators vs TRAIL W/KDSS.

Neither are really deal killers. If KDSS fails you get a clunking sound. If SR5 shift actuators fail you get to crawl underneath and manually engage the shift fork. Both are trail repairable in a failure situation.

As far as repair cost - I'd expect both to serve the useful life of the vehicle. My last 4runner had 210k on the clock and never had an issue with push button 4x4. Toyota does electronics pretty well.

 

[wfo9]

KDSS is reliable. BUT....

When it does go bad, which it eventually will as everything else does. it is problematic to service. It is a unicorn in the world of standard suspension systems. Your typical mechanic is going to look at it and say " I can't help you with that". In fact, based on some posts here, many Toyota dealerships say the same thing. Once out of warranty, they won't work on it, since it requires rare expensive tools. Lexus dealerships supposedly have these tools, but most refuse to work on a Toyota.

Someone very innovative could probably figure it out, but if you are not one of those people.....or don't know anyone....

BTW, they make trails without KDSS. In fact, it just depends on your region. All the trails here do not have it.

With all that said, I would not be afraid to purchase one with it for a mild build. If you had plans to eventually go crazy and do long travel or something, then I would skip it for sure.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

About 1.5 years ago I bought a 2006 Lexus GX470, with 81k miles on it. It is one of those rare Sport models with KDSS. At about 83k miles, I noticed a clunk in the suspension when going over uneven road. I don't drive it much, so it was probley there when we bough it.

I finally tracked down the clunk to a leak in the rear KDSS Actuator. Lexus gave me a quote for $1,400 to replace the rear actuator, and bleed the system. The rear actuator itself is about $500, and Lexus charges about another $500 to bleed the system. I checked with a couple Toyota dealerships in my area don't have the tool to bleed the system, so I haven't gotten any other quotes. I have heard of a few people bleeding their KDSS themselves, but they had to buy a $500 tool, and the KDSS fluid isn't cheap either.

Now at 95K mi, we haven't fixed the KDSS leak. It hasn't gotten any worse, but I can still feel the clunking on uneven roads. My wife doesn't really notice it so we haven't done anything to fix it.

I haven't heard of many issues in the 5th Gens KDSS, but they are all repetitively new, and low mileage. I bought the GX470 with 81k miles, but I am sure it was just driven on road, like 99.999% of all GX470s out there. I haven't gone as far as to check part numbers on the GX470 KDSS, vs what is on the 5th Gen trails, but the basic design is the same. Maybe the 5th gen actuators are more durable, but who knows.

KDSS's huge roll bars make it handle surprising well on the back roads, especially when compared to my 5th Gen SR5. With the KDSS being low on pressure, it is basically un-driveable off road with the horrible clunking it is constantly doing. On-road the clunking is just annoying. At this point, I wish our GX470 didn't have KDSS, as I am sure we will HAVE to deal with the rear actuator leak at some point in the not too distant future.

 

[Thai]

Lexus has been using KDSS since 2004 so do a search on the Lexus forums to see long term reliability. Also I will get flamed by the KDSS fan boys on here but it's a silly gimmick that IMO is better suited for on road driving that off road. If you want maximum flex out of the stock IFS system it's easy to fab a set of quick disconnects and cheaper/more effective for off roading.

Yup, you totally missed the point of KDSS...again. :sad:

 

[RCFJ]

Yup, you totally missed the point of KDSS...again. :sad:

How so?...he pretty much nailed it...."better suited for on road driving than off"
Does it work on road? Yes. It is worth $1800? HELL MOTHER TRUCKING NO.

 

[Jetboy]

Are folks actually seeing $1800 price increase? I've never seen a non KDSS trail in the wild. I don't think many or any make it to my market area. For a KDSS Trail Premium I paid $37.5k OTD. Are you seeing non KDSS TEPs in the sub $36k range? Or is KDSS really more like a $500-1000 option that has an MSRP of $1800?

 

[K9trainer]

It funny how so many people wo KDSS worry about what it will cost to repair if needed, it's just like any thing else, AC, Tires, shocks etc, if it breaks fix it, what's the big deal?

 

[Engineer]

What is the concern if the system "fails"? In my mind the truck is 100% drive able if the system leaks and no longer functions? I would assume that the pressure on the cylinders would be reduced/gone and that you would essentially have an non effective sway bar as the one side could pivot on both the front and rear at the cylinders. Can you lock the cylinders so that if you wanted to disable the system you could essentially have a thick sway bar (IE on road performance wouldn't change but off road the suspension would be less willing/able to droop)

This thread is starting to get like the TRD Pro thread, I would never say my Trail with KDSS is going to get me further then your SR5 with out.........there are so many other variables that are more important....driver....tires (type and pressure) but I guess I have a feature you don't and have $x,xxx amount of money less because of it :flipoff:

Financially I can see the impact of the potential repair but I don't think it is going to leave you stranded on the trail/road.