Knock Sensor 0330 with everything replaced...puzzled

[Rock_Rat]

Hate to throw this into a new thread but I'm really at wits end. I've exhausted all threads and forums and still no fix. OK I'm now flabbergasted and am asking for help. I have an 01 with 308K. I got tired of erasing the 0330 code and broke down and bought new sensors (napa) and harness (OEM). Figured I would replace the timing belt and everything it touches with OEM parts, (all pulleys and idler tensioner, water pump etc).

Took the top end apart and found the brittle wire broken to the sensor. Replaced both knock sensors and the harness. Rebuilt the top end with new gaskets including valve covers gaskets. (Heads never came off) Cleaned the MAF and the carb and replaced my black plastic wiring harness carriers with high temp tape, split poly loom, zip ties and clamps.

Only engine mods are an Airraid, deck plate, and equalized fuel injectors from LCE. After I was finished I still got the 0330 code along with the typical VSC lights putting the car in limp mode. Prior to all of the maintenance I did, once the engine warmed up I used to be able to erase the code a few times and it would drive OK for the rest of the day, unless it sat for a while.

Now, the code comes on after about six to ten miles and I have to constantly erase it. This morning I decided to splice the gray wire into the black wire using the FSM heading to the ECU. Took it for a test drive and went about 10 miles and the CEL came on and originally had both codes come on AFTER the splice. (0325 and 0330) This afternoon I'm back to just the 0330 code by itself with the VSC lights.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I've had the intake off twice. The second time was to clean all of the dielectric grease off the connectors and the sensors. I hate to start messing around with the ECU. Sure could use some suggestions... (Not sure why I'm still getting a 0330 after it's been spliced into the black wire unless there's an open on the way to the ECU or the ECU is bad.) :redbrick::redbrick::redbrick:

________________________
2001 4Runner SR5 Sport Package 308K miles
Airaid and Deck Plate, Toytec Coilovers 890's, OME rear Springs and Shocks, SPC Performance UCA's with a 1" diff drop, Weathertech, PIAA Lights
B&M Transmission Cooler, LC Engineering Equalized fuel injectors
Budbuilt skid plate

 

[awpsome]

I dont know how i feel about you redoing your new harness like that. Usually only do that for troubleshooting when you know your going to replace.

Only thing i can think of is that maybe the sensors you bought, that NAPA gave you, arent to spec. or are the wrong sensors.

After changing them out and to still show the code with new sensors and the harness you are left with either, wrong sensors or possible wiring issues via between the ECU and the new harness which is rare but possible.

At this point, im not sure what steps you want to take, but i think you are only left with taking it apart again which i know is not what you want to hear.

Maybe, before you take it apart once more, remove negative terminal and let it sit overnight. Have it all refresh new in the morning and try drive around.
Best of luck, if i think of anything ill let you know.

or maybe others have some info

 

[Rock_Rat]

Only thing i can think of is that maybe the sensors you bought, that NAPA gave you, arent to spec. or are the wrong sensors.

I thought the same thing as you, however, by splicing the gray wire (0330 bank 2 sensor) into the black wire (0325 bank 1 sensor) I've taken the bank 2 sensor out of the equation. Note the gray wire in pic#3 cut returning to the ECU. So if bank 2 sensor was bad, the ECU can't see it anyway.

It's generating a 0330 code off of bank 1 which makes no sense at all. (One knock sensor (bank 1) providing two inputs via the black wire) See attached photo. Obviously, it's all taped up now.

The battery had been disconnected for quite a few days while I did the suspension lift. I'll disconnect it again this afternoon. Thanks

________________________
2001 4Runner SR5 Sport Package 308K miles
Airaid and Deck Plate, Toytec Coilovers 890's, OME rear Springs and Shocks, SPC Performance UCA's with a 1" diff drop, Weathertech, PIAA Lights
B&M Transmission Cooler, LC Engineering Equalized fuel injectors
Budbuilt skid plate

 

[Rock_Rat]

Update: Reconnected the battery and drove 20miles - still getting codes

Reconnected the terminal and took it for a road test again. Put on 19.9 miles. Remember, this is after the splice. Both (0325/0330) codes came on at 6.2 miles into the drive (highway). Came back on about every .4 miles but bounced between the 0330 and the 0325 code.

I probably erased codes about 8-10 times. Speed was around 74 with tach at 21-2200 rpm. At around 14 miles, no CEL, no codes. Made it home almost six miles later at 19.9 miles without a CEL. The last code read was just the 0325 code (Black wire) alone. Yesterday it was the 0330 code (gray wire) after the splice. :frusty::frusty::frusty: Spurious indications.

I'm still at wits end on this. Troubleshooting 101 - Do the easy stuff first; power and grounds, gozinta's and gozouta's. Will continue troubleshooting without tearing the top end apart for a while. For now it's my emergency snow and ice vehicle until we're safely through winter. I'm dead in the water without a 4WD. I've got plenty to do with acoustic insulation (Dynamat)and new carpet sitting in the garage. Carpet came from Stock Interiors. As close to factory as you can get without the cost.

________________________
2001 4Runner SR5 Sport Package 308K miles
Airaid and Deck Plate, Toytec Coilovers 890's, OME rear Springs and Shocks, SPC Performance UCA's with a 1" diff drop, Weathertech, PIAA Lights
B&M Transmission Cooler, LC Engineering Equalized fuel injectors
Budbuilt skid plate

 

[Rock_Rat]

Quick update on the 0330 code. Went back to the original configuration and put the meter on everything. Continuity checks good and pulling less than an ohm from the ECM with the key turned on. Can't see voltage coming from the knock sensor unless I try and starve th engine and induce a knock. CEL comes on around 6mi after the car is warmed up and it's a battle to erase. The light comes on as soon as it's cleared. Only good thing, is it's constantly the 0330 (Bank 2) code. Heading to the dealer now so they can read the necessary waveforms and try and narrow down the problem before I tear the top end apart for the third time. At least $100 in troubleshooting...sucks. Will keep you posted as I always see someone out there with a KS problem.

________________________
2001 4Runner SR5 Sport Package 308K miles
Airaid and Deck Plate, Toytec Coilovers 890's, OME rear Springs and Shocks, SPC Performance UCA's with a 1" diff drop, Weathertech, PIAA Lights
B&M Transmission Cooler, LC Engineering Equalized fuel injectors
Budbuilt skid plate

 

[LookAtThatDog]

Is there such thing as a knock sensor simulator? Maybe that's an option?

 

[Rock_Rat]

No knock sensor simulator - don't we all wish!

Is there such thing as a knock sensor simulator? Maybe that's an option?

Not with the modern piezoelectric transducers used in most knock sensors.

In my situation, since I've already replaced the sensors, the sub-harness, and "ohm'd" everything out I was left with no other choice than to have the dealer hook up a scope to measure the output frequency and look at the wave form to the ECM. If the return frequency is not in limits then it's the sensor or the sub-harness. If the return frequency is within limits, then it's in the harness to the ECM. This is an extremely easy circuit.

Unfortunately, I think Awpsome is right in that I have a bad sensor from NAPA or it's just a real crappy brand to begin with. The ECM is only posting what it sees.

I'll keep you updated as I left it with the dealer on Wednesday. Waiting for a phone call soon once they get with the head Toyota technicians. The tech at the local dealer was scratching his head on Wednesday when I left him...haha
________________________
2001 4Runner SR5 Sport Package 308K miles
Airaid and Deck Plate, Toytec Coilovers 890's, OME rear Springs and Shocks, SPC Performance UCA's with a 1" diff drop, Weathertech, PIAA Lights
B&M Transmission Cooler, LC Engineering Equalized fuel injectors
Budbuilt skid plate

 

[Rock_Rat]

Back from the dealer - suspect bad knock sensor

After reading the diagnostics and consulting with TAS (Toyota's tech services) they believe I have a bad bank 2 knock sensor. Bank 1 was pretty consistent with a good wave form. Bank 2 was 100% spurious. It was good, then completely disappeared, came back again, disappeared etc. At least it eliminated the ECM harness.

Bottom line picked up two OEM (Denso) sensors for $135 ea, and another sub-harness for $25 and will begin work on it this upcoming week. I'll see if NAPA will take the others back.

It was really sad to see the sales guys preying on all the customers in the service area waiting for their cars to be repaired. Friggin vultures. One approached me and try to sell me a a new 2015 TRD even after I told him I'm not even the slightest bit interested in a new vehicle.
________________________
2001 4Runner SR5 Sport Package 308K miles
Airaid and Deck Plate, Toytec Coilovers 890's, OME rear Springs and Shocks, SPC Performance UCA's with a 1" diff drop, Weathertech, PIAA Lights
B&M Transmission Cooler, LC Engineering Equalized fuel injectors
Budbuilt skid plate

 

[LookAtThatDog]

That's interesting. Eric the car guy on youtube did a video about an o2 sensor that did the same thing you described (good waveform, suddenly dies, comes back, etc) last week. Cosmic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuCYJufwGAA

 

[Doc2012]

That's why you stick with OEM parts in these trucks.

Aftermarket shit isn't in the same league as far as sensors and shit.


OEM or nothing.

 

[Rock_Rat]

Knock Sensor Update - Success

Genuine Toyota (Denso) sensors for $135 ea, and another sub-harness for $25 and will begin work on it this upcoming week. I'll see if NAPA will take the others back.

Update on the Knock Sensor Codes - Took advantage of the MLK weekend and R² my sensors and sub harness assembly. Took all of about four hours. Drove the car for about 20 miles and the CEL never came on. I had the OBD ready just in case but...There is a distinguishable difference in the after market sensors from NAPA and the OEM sensors. See the attached photos.

Although NAPA did take take the sensors back without any questions asked, (Thank You) I was still into the job for a new intake manifold gasket kit, since I really didn't feel like chasing a vacuum leak with the others being crushed. (Not really needed I'm sure but ...no chances). I was also into the car for yet another four hours of labor. I also replaced the Wire Sensor harness again.

Sensor Harness - 82219-34010
Knock Sensor - 89615-12090
FELPRO Manifold Set - MS 95898 (Not OEM but it's good gasket set)

I appreciate all of the input in this forum and my only hope is that you too may learn from my input. Stick to OEM.


________________________
2001 4Runner SR5 Sport Package 308K miles
Airaid and Deck Plate, Toytec Coilovers 890's, OME rear Springs and Shocks, SPC Performance UCA's with a 1" diff drop, Weathertech, PIAA Lights
B&M Transmission Cooler, LC Engineering Equalized fuel injectors
Budbuilt skid plate

 

[allwheeldrive]

Sucks you went through all that because of crap aftermarket parts. But sometimes it's worth the money to stick oem. Especially on sensors and electronics.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Thanks for posting. These 4runner love their OEM or OE made sensors and nothing else it seems like. My eight year old NAPA starter (replaced by the previous owner) is still doing well.

I guess the sales folks and the service managers work in tandem where as if the service manager comes back with an astronomical fix to repair a car, a nice deal of the day for a new car or truck is on the table for the taking.