LBJ Failing??

[RunningForNow]

I’ve been diagnosing an intermittent wobble issue for a year now, and I haven’t been able to pinpoint the culprit. It doesn’t help that I only put about 4,500 miles in the last year on the truck (I work from home). When I get on the freeway, the truck would intermittently develop a wobble between 55-70. The wobble isn’t consistent, so I doubt it’s a wheel balance issue, as unbalanced wheels would mean having the wobble consistently.

I don’t think it’s the U-joint, either, as it doesn’t have a harsh “clunk” when I shift into reverse or drive. I only mentioned this because when I did a search, some had previously suggested that a U-joint might be the culprit.

I have newer tires that were put on back in March, and the wheels and tires were balanced, and an alignment is done. The truck tracks straight when it’s not wobbling

Once the wobble stops, the truck is smooth as butter and an absolute joy to drive. Like I said, it’s an intermittent issue that only occurs at highway speeds.

What other areas should I look?

 

[STI_MECE]

An unbalanced wheel can be intermittent. Maybeeee brake related. Probably not the issue but something to keep in your mind.

What does the wheel do when you apply the brakes? Stop shaking?

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[brillo_76]

Unbalanced wheel or even a bent rim. I had 4 rims that wouldn't balance before on a 4 runner.

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[Captsolo]

Take it to another alignment shop. Could be a wheel bearing (front). How many miles?

Ball joint or lower arm bushings on front wheels. There are two assemblies that can be purchased AM for cheap. Both have two new bushings each.

 

[RunningForNow]

I had Les Schwab check the balancing of all four wheels, and they said the wheels are properly balanced.

I haven’t checked to see what the steering wheel does when I apply the brakes, but I didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary. It certainly doesn’t shake when I hit the brakes, so I know it’s not a warped rotor or drum. The shake was there before I did the TBU, BUT, I have not had a chance to take apart the rear brakes yet. I plan to overhaul the rear brakes in December when I have time, with new drums, shoes, and cylinders.

 

[RunningForNow]

Take it to another alignment shop. Could be a wheel bearing (front). How many miles?

Ball joint or lower arm bushings on front wheels. There are two assemblies that can be purchased AM for cheap. Both have two new bushings each.

It has 186k miles. When I picked it up last October, it had 180k miles and had the intermittent wobble already. During that time, I did the TBU, got all four new tires, and an alignment. Problem seems the same, no better or worse.

 

[brillo_76]

How about you lower control arm bushings? If the are warn out it would wobble but it probably wouldn't align if that was the case.

Your upper and lower ball joints within spec?

You CV joints dont have excessive play in them?

All your rear end control arms snug and not moving or wobbling in brackets?


Does this wobble happen at a certain speed?


Also if rotate tires from front to back does the wobble change?


The last few wobbles I had on vehicles turned out to be bent rims. What makes it bad is bent rims will sometimes still balance.. I noticed that it certain speeds it would resonate and really feel it.

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[Bad Luck]

I’ve been diagnosing an intermittent wobble issue for a year now, and I haven’t been able to pinpoint the culprit. It doesn’t help that I only put about 4,500 miles in the last year on the truck (I work from home). When I get on the freeway, the truck would intermittently develop a wobble between 55-70. The wobble isn’t consistent, so I doubt it’s a wheel balance issue, as unbalanced wheels would mean having the wobble consistently.

I don’t think it’s the U-joint, either, as it doesn’t have a harsh “clunk” when I shift into reverse or drive. I only mentioned this because when I did a search, some had previously suggested that a U-joint might be the culprit.

I have newer tires that were put on back in March, and the wheels and tires were balanced, and an alignment is done. The truck tracks straight when it’s not wobbling

Once the wobble stops, the truck is smooth as butter and an absolute joy to drive. Like I said, it’s an intermittent issue that only occurs at highway speeds.

What other areas should I look?

When you say "wobble" are you referring to the steering wheel shaking, the vehicle shaking, or both?

 

[Outrider]

When my driveshaft u-joint(s) was (were) going out, it sounded and felt like something major was about to explode in or outside of my engine. It would come & go at certain speeds (usually between 40-50, IIRC). It was extremely troubling to my mind. It didn't feel like a wobble, but more like a deep rumbling. Because your wobble may not be like that doesn't completely rule out u-joints.

If I have learned anything while owning this vehicle that I love dearly for 10+ years, but has giving me tons of serious trouble, it is that things are often not at all what they appear to be. That is very often the case in electrical problems, too. I learned that I must rule out something completely before I can't consider it anymore. My failing fuel injector taught me that. At that time, every single symptom I was experiencing seemed to be a blown head gasket. I ruled that out by doing 2 things: A coolant test for exhaust gas and swapping things around in my ignition system. I was extremely relieved to find that all I needed to do was replace one injector, and all of those symptoms went away.

Since you said that you aren't getting a harsh clunk while shifting into drive or reverse (I wasn't either), to completely rule out a u-joint, have you tried crawling under it and giving all of the u-joints a good shake with your hands? If not yet, I would suggest doing that. If you can wiggle any of them, then I would strongly suspect that is the problem (or maybe also a problem, being that you could also still have a suspension problem). But at least you could rule out most all possibility of a u-joint.

 

[mtbtim]

Like others have mentioned, 9 times out of 10 when you get a vibration at highway speeds, it's a wheel balancing issue. I've had my wheels balanced, taken it for a test drive on the highway and gone right back to the shop because I know the balance wasn't right based on the shaking I got.

Try to find a shop in your area that does "Road Force Balancing". People have had good results getting there wheel balanced in this fashion. What Is Road Force Tire Balancing & Match Mounting? | America's Tire

By the way, is your rig lifted? What kind of tires are you running?

 

[RunningForNow]

When you say "wobble" are you referring to the steering wheel shaking, the vehicle shaking, or both?

The steering wheel shakes, which makes the entire truck shake.

 

[RunningForNow]

Like others have mentioned, 9 times out of 10 when you get a vibration at highway speeds, it's a wheel balancing issue. I've had my wheels balanced, taken it for a test drive on the highway and gone right back to the shop because I know the balance wasn't right based on the shaking I got.

Try to find a shop in your area that does "Road Force Balancing". People have had good results getting there wheel balanced in this fashion. What Is Road Force Tire Balancing & Match Mounting? | America's Tire

By the way, is your rig lifted? What kind of tires are you running?

It’s all stock, Tim. No lift and no other mods to the suspension. I want to go to a 2” lift with new springs and shocks soon, but I’m trying to track down this problem and solve it before I do the upgrade, so I’m not adding another layer of possibilities when I tackle this issue.

I will look into getting a road force balancing done on the wheels. Probably the easiest and cheapest thing to try, before looking into replacing the other parts. I don’t know how long the LBJs have been on the vehicle, and I do plan to swap that out around thanksgiving, when I have some time off from work. Our production schedule is absolute bananas right now all the way going into the third week of December.

 

[mtbtim]

It’s all stock, Tim. No lift and no other mods to the suspension. I want to go to a 2” lift with new springs and shocks soon, but I’m trying to track down this problem and solve it before I do the upgrade, so I’m not adding another layer of possibilities when I tackle this issue.

I would try out the road force balancing before doing anything further, because like I said, many many guys have had their tires balanced and thought they eliminated that possibility to only find out after they spent more time and money replacing everything under the sun on their front end that it was improper tire balancing after all.

If the road force balancing doesn't fix the issue, I'd start looking at your lower control arm bushings, upper control arm bushings, front differential mount bushings, check for play in your wheel bearings, check your inner and outer tie rods for play, and check your steering rack bushings.

 

[wtfemery]

Like others have mentioned, 9 times out of 10 when you get a vibration at highway speeds, it's a wheel balancing issue. I've had my wheels balanced, taken it for a test drive on the highway and gone right back to the shop because I know the balance wasn't right based on the shaking I got.

Try to find a shop in your area that does "Road Force Balancing". People have had good results getting there wheel balanced in this fashion. What Is Road Force Tire Balancing & Match Mounting? | America's Tire

By the way, is your rig lifted? What kind of tires are you running?

second this. i had the same awful wobbling steering wheel and vibrating truck a week or two ago. wheel balancing is really hard to get right without that machine. Most Discount Tires have that specific machine. you can search for stores that have it on the americastire website I believe.

once they were re-balanced properly everything is smooth as butter.

Just to mention, my wobble was also intermittent. It was hardly noticeable up until 45mph, then got worse until 65mph, and got better above that. It also changed based on the angle of the road, even which lane I was in...

last owner had them mounted and balanced at walmart... they did an awful job...

 

[RunningForNow]

Thanks everyone! This is all very good information. I will do a road force balancing like Tim said when I have time to get to it. Meanwhile, I’ve got a few things to check, so once I have time, I will crawl under the truck to start poking around.

 

[RunningForNow]

second this. i had the same awful wobbling steering wheel and vibrating truck a week or two ago. wheel balancing is really hard to get right without that machine. Most Discount Tires have that specific machine. you can search for stores that have it on the americastire website I believe.

once they were re-balanced properly everything is smooth as butter.

Just to mention, my wobble was also intermittent. It was hardly noticeable up until 45mph, then got worse until 65mph, and got better above that. It also changed based on the angle of the road, even which lane I was in...

last owner had them mounted and balanced at walmart... they did an awful job...

Your description matches what I’m experiencing to the T. I’ll definitely do a road balancing test. I might shop around and see who else does it, as I’ve had a bad experience with Discount Tires. There should be a few other shops in town (I live in Fresno) capable of doing this.

Thanks!

 

[Bad Luck]

The steering wheel shakes, which makes the entire truck shake.

That narrows it down to something in the front end causing the vibration. Like others have said I recommend road balancing your tires. Tires can balance out just fine, but road balance off.

 

[cahilc]

Road force balancing...

Ask the shop if possible to provide the 'road force numbers'.

Ideally we're looking for a number (lower the better) somewhere between 3 - 7.

Your gonna get a reply that an acceptable road force spec for your tire size is up to 11 maybe 13 to 15.

Nope. Lower the better 3 - 5 ideal. Single digits way prefered.

Yes it's possible to break down the tire rotate 1/4 turn, re-inflate, rebalance and repeat for a lower road force number.

This process takes time and a good tech who understands what's happening.

The higher the road force number the more likely the tire is moving into what is called 'out of round' condition.

Be courteous to the shop too. Customer walks in off the street asking for a road force balance and even if they're charging $50+ for the service there's not a lot of money on the table if the tech spends the required time to do the road force "correctly", breaking the tire down and dialing in the road force.

Usually a small out of balance issue would appear within a 5 - 10 mph window. One of the previous posts indicated a 20mph window. Leads me to believe yes there's a balance issue but once the balance issue is felt its being complicated and/or exacerbated by something else in the suspension.

Find a good shop that will take the time to do the road force balance correctly. Tell them your concerns with all the information you've gather. Let them know you want them to break down the tire and "dial" in the road force.

Talk to the tech if at all possible doing the job.

If you get the classic 'deer in headlights' look... Well, politely pushon to the next shop.

Go after the balance issue first and take that out of the equation. Then go after the rest.

Hope this helps,
Cahil

 

[RunningForNow]

Road force balancing...

Ask the shop if possible to provide the 'road force numbers'.

Ideally we're looking for a number (lower the better) somewhere between 3 - 7.

Your gonna get a reply that an acceptable road force spec for your tire size is up to 11 maybe 13 to 15.

Nope. Lower the better 3 - 5 ideal. Single digits way prefered.

Yes it's possible to break down the tire rotate 1/4 turn, re-inflate, rebalance and repeat for a lower road force number.

This process takes time and a good tech who understands what's happening.

The higher the road force number the more likely the tire is moving into what is called 'out of round' condition.

Be courteous to the shop too. Customer walks in off the street asking for a road force balance and even if they're charging $50+ for the service there's not a lot of money on the table if the tech spends the required time to do the road force "correctly", breaking the tire down and dialing in the road force.

Usually a small out of balance issue would appear within a 5 - 10 mph window. One of the previous posts indicated a 20mph window. Leads me to believe yes there's a balance issue but once the balance issue is felt its being complicated and/or exacerbated by something else in the suspension.

Find a good shop that will take the time to do the road force balance correctly. Tell them your concerns with all the information you've gather. Let them know you want them to break down the tire and "dial" in the road force.

Talk to the tech if at all possible doing the job.

If you get the classic 'deer in headlights' look... Well, politely pushon to the next shop.

Go after the balance issue first and take that out of the equation. Then go after the rest.

Hope this helps,
Cahil

Appreciate the pointer, Cahil. I'm always courteous to whoever provides a service for me. Never treat anyone rudely, because that person can decide how your day is going to go. I will ask them and be insistent on those numbers. $50 isn't a big deal at all if I can take care of this annoying problem.

 

[Bad Luck]

Ideally we're looking for a number (lower the better) somewhere between 3 - 7.

Your gonna get a reply that an acceptable road force spec for your tire size is up to 11 maybe 13 to 15.

Nope. Lower the better 3 - 5 ideal. Single digits way prefered.

As a technician that does road force balancing, most tires that road balance enough for a vibration will not be able to road force down to 7lbs or less.

Yes it's possible to break down the tire rotate 1/4 turn, re-inflate, rebalance and repeat for a lower road force number.

I don't know why you say it's "possible". That's literally how road force balancing is done. Put the tire on the balancer, spin it with road force option on, the machine will give you current road force amount/predicted road force amount/where to mark the rim and tire. Then you break the bead, line up the marks, reinflate and retest.