Lift with good handling? - Mountain driving

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willo

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I can finally post!
I live around 9000ft and drive canyon roads all the time, typically with an elevation change of 4000ft or so in my commute. We have twisty roads so handling is key. (We normally murder tires in under 20k too)

I should be picking up a 16 Trail edition with KDSS this week.
I'm coming from a built Jeep Rubicon Unlimited.

On the Jeep I ran 35s on a 1.5 inch lift. (AKA Low center of gravity lift)
Thanks to progressive rate springs and fox ifp 2.0 shocks the handling on my mountain roads was excellent (for a lifted jeep)

I'm not terribly worried about tire size here. I am interested in good handling and off road ability. I will likely toss on some slightly larger all terrains for most of the year but run stock size snow tires in the winter. (I have a fresh set of blizzaks for the T4R in the garage already)

Sooo, I'm looking for suggestions for suspension changes that will offer improved clearance, articulation AND good handling. I will be adding a winch, and expect to need something to level the front after that. If I have to do that, then I may as well gain an inch or two of clearance at that time.
 
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I have a Toytec Ultimate that gave me what it sounds like you are looking for. It is on KDSS, gave me about 2.5" and has 650# springs in front for the SSO bumper and Smittybilt winch as well as upgraded springs in the rear. The shocks are Bilstein 5100's.

The ride and handling are better than the 2008 Rubicon that I had and I didn't sacrifice any off road capability.

Bill
 
willo said:
I can finally post!
I live around 9000ft and drive canyon roads all the time, typically with an elevation change of 4000ft or so in my commute. We have twisty roads so handling is key. (We normally murder tires in under 20k too)

I should be picking up a 16 Trail edition with KDSS this week.
I'm coming from a built Jeep Rubicon Unlimited.

On the Jeep I ran 35s on a 1.5 inch lift. (AKA Low center of gravity lift)
Thanks to progressive rate springs and fox ifp 2.0 shocks the handling on my mountain roads was excellent (for a lifted jeep)

I'm not terribly worried about tire size here. I am interested in good handling and off road ability. I will likely toss on some slightly larger all terrains for most of the year but run stock size snow tires in the winter. (I have a fresh set of blizzaks for the T4R in the garage already)

Sooo, I'm looking for suggestions for suspension changes that will offer improved clearance, articulation AND good handling. I will be adding a winch, and expect to need something to level the front after that. If I have to do that, then I may as well gain an inch or two of clearance at that time.
Click to expand...

If you're not worried about tire size, why lift?

Or, just ride out the stock lift and KDSS and see what you like and don't like before making changes.
 
I have the Toytec Boss. Handles great. Your tires are the deciding factor as far as handling goes. I have Firestone Destination MT,s. They handle great on dry roads but kinda iffy on wet roads.
 
willo said:
I can finally post!
I live around 9000ft and drive canyon roads all the time, typically with an elevation change of 4000ft or so in my commute. We have twisty roads so handling is key. (We normally murder tires in under 20k too)

I should be picking up a 16 Trail edition with KDSS this week.
I'm coming from a built Jeep Rubicon Unlimited.

On the Jeep I ran 35s on a 1.5 inch lift. (AKA Low center of gravity lift)
Thanks to progressive rate springs and fox ifp 2.0 shocks the handling on my mountain roads was excellent (for a lifted jeep)

I'm not terribly worried about tire size here. I am interested in good handling and off road ability. I will likely toss on some slightly larger all terrains for most of the year but run stock size snow tires in the winter. (I have a fresh set of blizzaks for the T4R in the garage already)

Sooo, I'm looking for suggestions for suspension changes that will offer improved clearance, articulation AND good handling. I will be adding a winch, and expect to need something to level the front after that. If I have to do that, then I may as well gain an inch or two of clearance at that time.
Click to expand...

if you want to spend the money i Highly recommend the OME BP-51 lift. it is a great ride and is designed to allow for extra weight.
 
I live on a mountain as well and have to drive canyon roads anywhere I go. I think the KDSS is going to help you more than any lift you put on, I have been very happy with that system and it keeps you flat through the corners. Once you add weight though you will want better suspension to handle that.

I personally wanted something I didn't have to rebuild every now and then and went with a Dobinsons setup and have been very happy with it. If you haven't check them out, mike on this forum can help you with anything you need for your situation.
 
willo said:
Keep the ideas coming! I hadn't heard of a few of these and am enjoying looking at new choices.
Click to expand...

if you really want to improve your handling, drive to boulder and get fitted with king oem replacements, but keep your stock height; that matched with kdss is going to give you the best combination of on-road and off-road performance
 
Toffees said:
If you're not worried about tire size, why lift?

Or, just ride out the stock lift and KDSS and see what you like and don't like before making changes.
Click to expand...

I'll be driving it quite a bit before I start modding but I like to have a plan.
In jeep land, people lift with the statement of "I want to fit tire size X" and determine the lift from there.

In my case I know that I can go just about everywhere I need. As far as tires go, I'll probably run General All Terrain ATXs again. They are snow rated and good year round. (Blizzaks like to nearly melt off once the pavement warms up a bit.) Final size isn't a huge factor for me.

I know that when I add the weight of a winch and bumper/mount to the front, it's gonna dive a bit. The suspension mod will be to allow correction of that and then I'll mod the rear to match. As I said, I may as well add a bit of clearance while I'm buying parts.
 
willo said:
I'll be driving it quite a bit before I start modding but I like to have a plan.
Click to expand...

OK, that's a bit of a lie. The minute I get it into my driveway I'll be making measurements and ordering steel to start building a mid bumper to start. I'm trying to talk myself into a full width but don't have the design visualized yet.
 
I previously had a 2012 Trail w/ KDSS, Toyotec lift & E load 285s.

I swear that truck handled corners really well, I usually would whip through cloverleaf on and off ramps faster than most pedestrian cars would attempt.

I can't confirm, but my suspicion was that the heavy duty suspension combined with solid sidewall tires of the E-rated duratracs and the KDSS combined to make a damn near unflappable driving experience.
 
I'm currently rocking an 84k mile stock suspension non-KDSS trail on BFG C-rated tires and it's pretty bad. I'll likely re-suspension within the next 6-9mo and hope to recreate my experience from the previous truck.
 
willo said:
As I said, I may as well add a bit of clearance while I'm buying parts.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but my understanding is you only add clearance by increasing tire size, which shifts CG, which affects handling.

If you're adding weight, you'll definitely want stiffer springs, but I can't guess what else you should do. At some point it seems like you're going to have to decide what you actually want out of your rig.
 
willo said:
I should be picking up a 16 Trail edition with KDSS this week.
I'm coming from a built Jeep Rubicon Unlimited.
Click to expand...

I can only compare my stock '12 JKRU and my stock TE without KDSS. Unless the KDSS works some miracles, get ready for a more top-heavy, more body-roll experience. They both handle decently in mild curves but the JK was much more level and stable as the tires start complaining. Then the 4Runner's stability control and brakes can get very weird when pressed hard in sharp curves, especially when combined with changing grades. Sometimes the 4R just does what it thinks is best and it will scare the crap out of you. The Bilstein 5100s have helped some with the roll. Overall, the Jeep was a lot more predictable in that type of driving.

For me, I always liked the style of the early Trails and the 4Runner was a debt-reduction move. It is more comfortable for everyday driving and does most of what the Rubicon could do. I really miss that Jeep, though.

I live in the mountains of East Tennessee and we have lots of great roads.:D
 

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Toffees said:
I could be wrong, but my understanding is you only add clearance by increasing tire size, which shifts CG, which affects handling.

If you're adding weight, you'll definitely want stiffer springs, but I can't guess what else you should do. At some point it seems like you're going to have to decide what you actually want out of your rig.
Click to expand...

The only way to increase axle clearance is via larger tires, but you can add body clearance via suspension lifts. In many cases, lifted suspension is stiffer and will provide less body roll than stock, lower suspension did, leading to improved handling despite the increased COG.
 
IanB said:
The only way to increase axle clearance is via larger tires, but you can add body clearance via suspension lifts. In many cases, lifted suspension is stiffer and will provide less body roll than stock, lower suspension did, leading to improved handling despite the increased COG.
Click to expand...

But the better handing is due to the better suspension, which can be had at stock height as well, which should offer better handling than the same suspension lifted?
 
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