Lifting question

[totallypro]

I have read the huge all about lifts thread, and countless other threads of people asking their own specific questions, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to my question, so I am hoping someone can help me out with it.

I would like to lift my 4runner.

Why? For offroad performance, mainly for more clearance (that front skid hangs awfully low when aired down). As much as I would love my 4runner to handle like a trophy truck, I know that's not gonna happen with just a simple lift, so as long as I can retain at least stock ride quality offroad I'd be more than happy. I don't need $4,000 Icon shocks, just something that will work and be mostly comfortable.

How much? I really don' know. I drive a lot on road, it is my daily driver, so not so much that I can't take a corner at reasonable speed. But I also want to do it for more clearance, so enough that I can actually benefit from it. I originally though around 1.5-2"

My 4runner is currently sitting on KYB gas-a-justs on the front and the OG OEM shocks in the back. The back end has been getting really bouncy and I can only assume the 15 year old shocks are to blame, so I am looking to replace them. In my research I have found that some shocks state that they will work with a certain range of lift, for example the Billstein b8 series shocks say they will work with a 0-2" lift. When I do the lift, I would like to do it right, but I also have a tight budget so I can't just go out and drop $1,000 on one of the OME kits or something like that. So my thought was I could just get 4 taller springs and just simply put them on. Is this not the case? Do I need rear shocks that supposedly work with a lift, or can I just use stock-replacement ones like the KYBs? And would putting a taller spring on the front ruin my CVs? The front shocks are very new (only have about 7,000 miles on them, installed just before I bought it), so I would prefer to not have to replace them if I can. And obviously that would drive up the price.

Long story short: Is it possible to obtain about 1.5-2" of lift and still maintain mechanical integrity and a decent ride with just a set of 4 new, taller springs?
And if it isn't, what rear shocks should I be looking at to accommodate the lift? (since I need to be replacing them anyways)

Thanks!

 

[yella]

This was somewhat my goal when I first got my 4R as well; however I was mostly on road with some off road. I found the amount of suspension options exhausting and get ready for MANY different opinions.

However, and I am no expert, I think your best bet would be the OME 881/906 combo which I believe is around a 2" lift. I THINK you can run stock shocks, but someone else with more knowledge will chime in. I think at a 2" lift, the shock would be near its rebound limit.

99 tall springs would be about a 1" lift, but in my research, buying "new" 99 springs is more expensive than the OME springs.

I have a set of MOOG "99" springs that I just received but have not yet installed. Reviews of them are decent, especially for the price ( check rockauto.com or amazon ).

I am doing the MOOG springs with a 1.5" daystar spacer, and new KYB Gas a just shocks for the read. The spacer was not in my original plan and was an impulse buy. Along with new rear links and bushings, the whole rear set up will cost me less than $200.

Good luck with your research. I have subscribed to this thread to see what people have to say.

Edit : i also have a set of airbags going in the rear at the same time. Again, just receiving the parts and have not yet installed.


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[totallypro]

Yeah that's exactly what I found when I started searching, there are just way too many options and combinations for me to figure all out on my own. I'm looking to the OME combo and it looks good and isn't crazy expensive but I can't find anywhere a definitive answer on whether I can use the stock length shocks. My biggest concern is just the fronts, I am replacing the rears anyways so I can just make sure to buy ones that will accommodate the lift.

The airbag kits sound like a good idea, especially since my 4runner will go from an almost empty trunk on a day trip to a trunk full with 200+ lbs of camping gear on other trips. When we fully load up the truck sits almost 1.5" lower than when it's just two of us and a small tool box. I'm interested to know what you think of it once you get them setup. Since I would only plan on adjusting based on load, would it be possible to pump the bags up with my 12v compressor I use to air up tires? I would just pump them up to level the car at the start of a trip before we set off, then deflate them when we unload everything at the end of the trip.

 

[yella]

Yes the 12v compressor would work fine. I probably wont have them installed on the 4R for a bit - very busy. But I do have a 2011 dodge ram 1500 that is my daily driver work truck. It has airbags and I would never look back for this particular truck. On any given day i have 1000-2000 lbs of tools and material in the back. The airbags work great with 40psi.

I think the stock length shocks will work, but I cannot confirm that.

I believe Bilstein makes a 5100 series for 0-1.5" lift, and a 1.5-3" lift. Im sure there are other adjustable length shocks.


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[jgleit]

My goals for my suspension setup were very similar to yours: replace the tired and sagging OE suspension on a 2000 4Runner with new shocks and springs with a mild lift. I went with the Bilstein 5100's front & rear (the model specifically for 96-02 4Runners). For springs I went with the OME 880/906 combo.

So far I've only installed the rear shocks and 906 springs but the difference has been huge. Got the full amount of lift in the rear and no more sag.

From what I read the 906 is supposed to match the 5100 pretty well, and from what I can tell the rear feels firm and planted. Will have to give you an updated when I tackle the front.

When going with this setup you don't have to worry about diff drop / extended brake lines and all that. It was also a pretty straightforward install - the hardest part was taking out the old parts.

 

[totallypro]

The Bilstein 5100s actually aren't all that expensive so I think I might go with those and then I won't have to worry about the shock size anyways. But for anyone who wants to do this with stock shocks, they Billstein's are almost the exact same measurements as the OEM shocks, they just have an extra inch of compression, their extended length is the same so it won't effect articulation really at all. I think they say they are "lift compatible" because the dampening circuit is specifically designed for a lifted truck instead of a stock height truck, so they might handle better than a stock shock on a lifted 4runner. I was thinking about the Rancho RS9000 series so that I can adjust the dampening when I don't have 200+ lbs of camping stuff in the trunk, the Bilsteins will probably be pretty stiff when the trunk is empty, but my truck is so bouncy now with the 15 year old OG shocks that anything will be an improvement over it, and the Ranchos are very very expensive.

Now that we have the back end confirmed (You do not need a special length shock for the OME 906 coil lift), anyone know about the front? Again, I have stock length KYB Gas-a-justs up front and they are fairly new so I will not be replacing them, so will they work with the OME spring?

 

[Bijan]

I have read the huge all about lifts thread, and countless other threads of people asking their own specific questions, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to my question, so I am hoping someone can help me out with it.

I would like to lift my 4runner.

Why? For offroad performance, mainly for more clearance (that front skid hangs awfully low when aired down). As much as I would love my 4runner to handle like a trophy truck, I know that's not gonna happen with just a simple lift, so as long as I can retain at least stock ride quality offroad I'd be more than happy. I don't need $4,000 Icon shocks, just something that will work and be mostly comfortable.

How much? I really don' know. I drive a lot on road, it is my daily driver, so not so much that I can't take a corner at reasonable speed. But I also want to do it for more clearance, so enough that I can actually benefit from it. I originally though around 1.5-2"

My 4runner is currently sitting on KYB gas-a-justs on the front and the OG OEM shocks in the back. The back end has been getting really bouncy and I can only assume the 15 year old shocks are to blame, so I am looking to replace them. In my research I have found that some shocks state that they will work with a certain range of lift, for example the Billstein b8 series shocks say they will work with a 0-2" lift. When I do the lift, I would like to do it right, but I also have a tight budget so I can't just go out and drop $1,000 on one of the OME kits or something like that. So my thought was I could just get 4 taller springs and just simply put them on. Is this not the case? Do I need rear shocks that supposedly work with a lift, or can I just use stock-replacement ones like the KYBs? And would putting a taller spring on the front ruin my CVs? The front shocks are very new (only have about 7,000 miles on them, installed just before I bought it), so I would prefer to not have to replace them if I can. And obviously that would drive up the price.

Long story short: Is it possible to obtain about 1.5-2" of lift and still maintain mechanical integrity and a decent ride with just a set of 4 new, taller springs?
And if it isn't, what rear shocks should I be looking at to accommodate the lift? (since I need to be replacing them anyways)

Thanks!

What's your budget?

 

[jbrentd]

Not sure on you questions regarding using the old shocks, but I just installed the OME 880/906 springs along with new shocks/struts and the diff drop kit too, since it's not expensive and easy to install. Made a huge difference in the ride and handling compared to the worn out original equipment they replaced. I netted about 1.5" in the front and about 2.5" in the rear (my rears were sagging quite a bit).

 

[traben27]

I wanted something very similar and on a similar budget. I've been very happy with my set up for mainly on road, but it's done great on everything from forest roads to minor rock crawling. Check out my thread here.

I think I was in it all for less than 500 as I got a good deal on the front 99 tall coils. I'm contemplating adding 10mm trim packers to the rear coils, but just because I have a RTT and other gear in the back all of the time.

 

[calimobber]

I wanted the same thing as you. I spent about $500 shipped and got 4 new 5100 shocks and OME rear coils. with the 5100's, you can keep the front stock coil and still get a lift by moving the plate what holds the coil.

I got about 2" maybe and everything feels good. I would skip the diff drop. I bought one but never installed it and its been a few yers with no issues.


I do have the air bags in the rear but don't need much air in them unless towing.

 

[Weagle2]

I know you will like the rear combination you are settled on because I just did the same and really like the ride.
Regarding the front, maybe you could find some used '99 springs to pair with your newer existing KYB shocks. I have existing '99 springs and OE shocks with 171K on my front and have a 1" rake that I like. I'm concerned with using OME 880's that you will not like using the existing shocks (too short). The '99 coils will give you some lift since your front OE springs are the lowest OE springs for 3rd gens.

 

[totallypro]

I wanted something very similar and on a similar budget. I've been very happy with my set up for mainly on road, but it's done great on everything from forest roads to minor rock crawling. Check out my thread here.

I think I was in it all for less than 500 as I got a good deal on the front 99 tall coils. I'm contemplating adding 10mm trim packers to the rear coils, but just because I have a RTT and other gear in the back all of the time.

I wanted the same thing as you. I spent about $500 shipped and got 4 new 5100 shocks and OME rear coils. with the 5100's, you can keep the front stock coil and still get a lift by moving the plate what holds the coil.

I got about 2" maybe and everything feels good. I would skip the diff drop. I bought one but never installed it and its been a few yers with no issues.


I do have the air bags in the rear but don't need much air in them unless towing.

I looked into the front shocks, and the Bilstein 5100s are only about 1" longer. It obviously is a difference, but I can't imagine it makes much of a difference, especially since it's split almost exactly 0.5" at fully extended and fully compressed. I don't fully understand the front end geometry, wouldn't moving the coil perch to a higher setting just cause the shock to sit farther out of its travel? And I would guess that that is the same thing that happens when you put a longer coil onto the OE length shock. Anyways, I just would really love to not replace the front shocks but I can if I need to, one of you said you can just get the 5100s and use the stock coils, I assume that won't be as good of a ride as the OME coils but would it be bad? If buy front shocks instead of front springs it would basically be the same price.

I know you will like the rear combination you are settled on because I just did the same and really like the ride.
Regarding the front, maybe you could find some used '99 springs to pair with your newer existing KYB shocks. I have existing '99 springs and OE shocks with 171K on my front and have a 1" rake that I like. I'm concerned with using OME 880's that you will not like using the existing shocks (too short). The '99 coils will give you some lift since your front OE springs are the lowest OE springs for 3rd gens.

Is the amount of rake you ended up with crazy noticeable? I don't think I want any rake mainly for looks and on road handling. I understand a rake can improve handling off road but 90% of my driving is on road. If it isn't very noticeable then I guess it would be ok, are 99 front springs really much cheaper than OME springs? I probably wouldn't buy used because I wouldn't want to get sagged springs.

 

[calimobber]

looked into the front shocks, and the Bilstein 5100s are only about 1" longer. It obviously is a difference, but I can't imagine it makes much of a difference, especially since it's split almost exactly 0.5" at fully extended and fully compressed.

Its not as much about the shock length but its ability to move the clip to gain lift from the shock. Basically your moving the coils bottom bracket higher up on the shock, so the coil it stiffer and raises the front end to desired level .

If you don't have a shock with adjustments you rely 100% on the coil and if that coil wears out you have to replace it to get lift back verses adjust the clip.

 

[totallypro]

Its not as much about the shock length but its ability to move the clip to gain lift from the shock. Basically your moving the coils bottom bracket higher up on the shock, so the coil it stiffer and raises the front end to desired level .

If you don't have a shock with adjustments you rely 100% on the coil and if that coil wears out you have to replace it to get lift back verses adjust the clip.

True, but springs shouldn't wear out very quickly. The front springs on mine are the OE ones and from the measurements I can find they haven't sagged at all in 15 years, and the backs have only sagged about 1". Obviously over time the fatigue on the metal will stop it from returning to its original length when it is compressed, but that takes years and isn't exactly something I'm worried about. Plus, if after a few years the OME front springs have sagged, by then it would make some sense to upgrade the front struts and then I'll have the perch adjustment to fix the sag. I'm concerned that the Bilsteins coupled with the stock front springs and lifted by the spring perch adjustment will result in a worse ride than the KYB shock and OME spring, and considering they are about the same price I'd rather choose the one with the better ride.

 

[phattyduck]

Its not as much about the shock length but its ability to move the clip to gain lift from the shock. Basically your moving the coils bottom bracket higher up on the shock, so the coil it stiffer and raises the front end to desired level.

The pre-load on the spring doesn't change the rate at ride height. The weight of the truck will compress the spring to the same length.

The stiff/harsh ride issues come from topping out the front shocks or too much preload when jumping (unloading the suspension). The harshness comes from problems at the extremes of travel. If the shock is correctly designed for it (let's hope the 5100's are!), then changing preload to change ride height isn't a problem.

-Charlie

 

[totallypro]

The pre-load on the spring doesn't change the rate at ride height. The weight of the truck will compress the spring to the same length.

The stiff/harsh ride issues come from topping out the front shocks or too much preload when jumping (unloading the suspension). The harshness comes from problems at the extremes of travel. If the shock is correctly designed for it (let's hope the 5100's are!), then changing preload to change ride height isn't a problem.

-Charlie

Oh ok, it's all starting to make a little sense now. I'll look into getting the front Bilsteins instead of OME springs. Maybe I can sell the KYBs for a little bit too, I just hate to replace them so early.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[yella]

Depending on when, I would be interested in buying the front struts


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