phattyduck
Elite Member
The last point about RWD with an LSD or engaged locker in the snow still stands though!
-Charlie
limited slip vs locker
- Thread starter 3bears
- Start date
The last point about RWD with an LSD or engaged locker in the snow still stands though!
-Charlie
Scramble
New member
The last point about RWD with an LSD or engaged locker in the snow still stands though!
-Charlie
Yep, these trucks have plenty of torque in 1st gear. I'm always in 4-Hi in the snow. This winter I'll have my e-locker installed useable in any mode & we'll see how it does.
ajordan1975
New member
an Elocker and an air locker are not as reliable as a detriot
i'll take an elocker over an air locker any day.
i've seen to many air lockers mess up. pump fails, air leaks, melted air lines, the brass inside the diff, etc.
nevada
Senior Member
I dont rock crawl, and this past winter I only had issues with snow or mud twice, but then again I did not play, explore back roads further than I felt safe in the snow.Plus I am usally by myself adn dont have a winch or a wench
I dont know if a locker is what I really need, with compressor and wiring etc for as limited as it would be used. Ive read about people doing limited slip, mtbtim even did a video of an install of one. Thoughts ?
sounds like a limited slip is more up your alley.
also, keep in mind there are several types of lockers. selectable, and automatic.
an automatic locker will require nothing extra after the install.
some will take a bit of getting used to, and possibly an adjustment to your driving style. they will work very similar to the LSD. except, unlike the LSD, they wont let one tire spin without the other. an LSD will, given the correct combination of tires/traction/terrain etc.
rkntoy
New member
My opinion after having e-locker, ARB, Detroit, True-Trac, Spartan, Aussie, spool, and open diffs in a variety of vehicles.
Snow - depends on if we are talking compact snow or 6+ inches of fresh or 6+ inches of fresh over compact and speed is also a factor. If we are talking compact or fresh over compact at speed I would rather be open front rear unless the snow is really getting deep. 6+ inches going slow I would rather have some kind of traction aid.
So I have set my vehicle up with selectable rear (e-locker) and hopefully down the road I can remove my front Aussie and get a selectable front.
ARB versus e-locker? I have seen both go out on a number of occasions so I lean toward what I can find and install cheaper.
Snow - depends on if we are talking compact snow or 6+ inches of fresh or 6+ inches of fresh over compact and speed is also a factor. If we are talking compact or fresh over compact at speed I would rather be open front rear unless the snow is really getting deep. 6+ inches going slow I would rather have some kind of traction aid.
So I have set my vehicle up with selectable rear (e-locker) and hopefully down the road I can remove my front Aussie and get a selectable front.
ARB versus e-locker? I have seen both go out on a number of occasions so I lean toward what I can find and install cheaper.
absalom
New member
Fine, so I got one thing wrong. OP, just make sure you get the V-10 option that started in 2002.
if you were able to back out and turn around you weren't "stuck" ( pedantic i know
) but it certainly sounds like you are running some gnarly trails. i don't think i would recommend pushing farther by yourself if you're being stopped with the rig you have now, even with lockers etc you can get into trouble, and you'll be farther up where it's going to be a nightmare to get out.
that being said, say you were wheeling with pals, a locker would be far more useful in your situation than limited slip. the main advantage of limited slip is that it doesn't have to be engaged / disengaged for normal dry road use. in true off road situations (which it sounds like you certainly have) a dedicated locker is better in every respect. my $.02
JayRolla
New member
All that stuff is usually user error because they don't maintain there rig. Many issues on e-lockers across all Toyota platforms.
Sean K.
New member
And out of the two, break an axle and the ARB tends to handle it much better with less internal breakage of the locker itself.
Sean K.
New member
That is NOT how the Toyota e-locker works....nor just about any other e-locker short of the gov-lok found in GM Corporate axles.
Sean K.
New member
It's generally not maintenance, but installation. If installed correctly, they generally are very reliable. The failures I've seen are often a result of bent housings.
lucky1-T4R
New member
So, how does the factory e-locker work? The actual mechanics of it? (asking out of ignorance, am new to Toyota)
SS_Syndicate
New member
I should have said, "most e-lockers I've dealt with". I didn't mean to claim this is how the Toyota ones work... I had/have no idea. The factory Jeep lockers don't need the rotation either but have other weaknesses that still makes the ARB more desirable.
The Eaton E-Lockers do require this rotation (at least the ones I've installed). It's for this reason I tend not to like them so it's good to know this isn't the case in Toy-land.
Sean K.
New member
Are you sure you're not talking about Eaton's Gov-Loks? The regular e-locker from Eaton may take a small amount of rotation to lock, just like Toyota's can.....but once they lock, they are spooled until you unlock them (which can also take a few rotations). What neither does is continue to lock and unlock once you press the button and the unit engages.
Ya, the Jeep air lockers have been problematic....and most get replaced with ARBs/Zips.
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ndex.htm#tabs-5?playlistVideoId=2225944143001
About the 2:20 mark the video shows how the dowels line up to the drive cog....it would only take enough "slippage" to allow those dowels to align to their respective holes once the electro magnet is activated.
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SS_Syndicate
New member
I've mostly been a JK guy, Their lockers are all electric. They actually work really well but if not maintained and cleaned regularly the sludge and metal floating around makes the magnet weak and it will bind or fail to actuate. This can happen in both the locked and unlocked state.
Any other axle I've installed a locker in has been either ARB or OX with exception to the Eaton E-lockers for our 2-door... I put them in both the D30 front and D44 rear. WE HATED how the locked. I would be okay with rotation to lock if it stayed locked, but every time we changed directions it would slip and for equal or more rotation before locking again. The caused us to regularly bend the pins and ultimately I replaced the carriers.
We host/lead a lot of trail rides. I've seen this operation on several aftermarket e-lockers", but it is possible they were all JKs and this operation is isolated. I honestly never kept track. I just knew that if I was spotting someone with a aftermarket e-locker I couldn't count on a tire to grab and rotate immediately.
I'm still learning on the Toys... But I do plan to re gear and add lockers soon so this has been a handy conversation. I love the ARBs but it's tough to find good diff oil that doesn't have friction modifier. If you run friction stuff with an ARB you will eventually eat the seals on the slip ring and start spitting oil out the solenoid. Then there is the whole on-board air thing... Out JKU has two compressors, one dedicated to the lockers. Our other rigs just get a Powertank chucked in. If the rotation thing isn't an issue it makes the type of locker more desirable.
living in the snow/rust belt and having LSD and a eaton locker diff on vehicles the locker locks when the tire spins then you can move .. on a LSD if one tire is on some icy spot your not gonna move. just how LSD works its limited on the traction lock ..
I made a good amount of money being able to get to work with my locker truck ... no shoveling/snow removal get to work nice and safe..
some that only use vehicles for easy driving conditions , no need for these type diff's... open diff is all they need ..
SS_Syndicate
New member
...having now watched the video, I can say that (at least for the JK) it isn't exactly accurate...
The pins are nowhere near that beefy. There are 4 and they are 1/4" in diameter at best. Also, the magnet pushes the pins into place but they are spring loaded. There is a ramp that they follow before reaching the locked position. It is this ramp that has to be undone and then go up the other side where the rotation is needed for direction changes.
Long ago (at a show) I spoke with Eaton about this and they claimed it made for a "set it and forget it" experience. Essentially the slip was to make turning easier for users that use the lockers all the time on the trail. This said, The guy didn't answer some other questions accurately so there is no telling if this was true.
The pins are nowhere near that beefy. There are 4 and they are 1/4" in diameter at best. Also, the magnet pushes the pins into place but they are spring loaded. There is a ramp that they follow before reaching the locked position. It is this ramp that has to be undone and then go up the other side where the rotation is needed for direction changes.
Long ago (at a show) I spoke with Eaton about this and they claimed it made for a "set it and forget it" experience. Essentially the slip was to make turning easier for users that use the lockers all the time on the trail. This said, The guy didn't answer some other questions accurately so there is no telling if this was true.
Sean K.
New member
No, not all electric....the first few years of Rubicon used pneumatic...and had lots of problems. The electrics haven't been good either....but somewhat better than the pneumatics.
Agreed...OX sucked when it first came out....I'm still not a fan but there are people who swear by them now. I lost interest in them after their initial release and haven't kept up with reliability since.
If you're hosting events, and watching closely enough to be apparently spotting and needing the locker to lock specifically to grab one line on the trail, why aren't you having the person lock their diff before they actually get to that point?
Mobil 1 full synth 75W-90 gear oil doesn't have friction modifiers....Redline and other more exotic full synth gear oils don't either you just have to spec if out before ordering....you shouldn't have much trouble finding a GL4 or 5 rated gear oil for an ARB.
Sean K.
New member
That looks more like the D60 version but regardless....even with 4 pins, that's 90º of motion before lock....again, user error if people are waiting to engage their locker until they have a problem.
