Militiamen Occupy Oregon Wildlife Office in Protest of Ranchers' Prison Terms

So whats your stance on Eminent Domain?

Eminent Domain built the US Interstate Freeway System. I like it.

It is somewhat off topic but Eminent Domain and property rights is at this point irrelevant. Now, with property taxes, there is no such thing as a land owner... we are all land leasers. We all lease our land from the local, state, and federal governments... I own land. I have a property tax bill that increases every year to fund the local school systems and a whole host of other "services". If I fail to pay my property tax bill, regardless of the fact that my family has owned that land for generations, It would be confiscated by the local government and sold at auction if I do not pay the property taxes... To me that is crazy. The fact that I have to pay over $10,000 a year to retain the ownership of my property which has long been paid in full... is nuts. I don't own the land. I am only leasing it until I am no longer able to afford the lease...

Seems to me a 3 month or 1 year prison sentence for arson destroying over 5.5 million square feet of government land is a slap on the wrist.

You and others may disagree, I respect that.

Who measures land in square feet? Come you are just using that measurement to make is sound more drastic.


Hahahaha 5.5 million square feet of "government land" everyone's land. Government was supposed to be the steward/caretaker of the people's resources... not the people's master...

I think there should have been a lot more 3 month or 1 year prison sentences for the rioting fanatics in fergusen and baltimore who destroyed government infrastructure, police cars, traffic signs, traffic lights, etc...
 
It is somewhat off topic but Eminent Domain and property rights is at this point irrelevant. Now, with property taxes, there is no such thing as a land owner... we are all land leasers. We all lease our land from the local, state, and federal governments... I own land. I have a property tax bill that increases every year to fund the local school systems and a whole host of other "services". If I fail to pay my property tax bill, regardless of the fact that my family has owned that land for generations, It would be confiscated by the local government and sold at auction if I do not pay the property taxes... To me that is crazy. The fact that I have to pay over $10,000 a year to retain the ownership of my property which has long been paid in full... is nuts. I don't own the land. I am only leasing it until I am no longer able to afford the land..

Preaching to the choir over here. My family has owned land in northern MN since the 30s and it was paid off in the 80s. Every time the local schools ask for a tax hike my family makes sure to vote no. The taxes are ridiculous. Every adult pitches in just so we can continue to have it.
 
Seems to me a 3 month or 1 year prison sentence for arson destroying over 5.5 million square feet of government land is a slap on the wrist.

You and others may disagree, I respect that.

127 acres...to put out a fire that had destroyed how many acres because of BLM inaction?

Its easy to make a statement like this when you are not facing a fire that is about to burn you out and BLM is doing nothing.

I have done the same thing, and in fact I did on the border of a national park, and burnt about 200 acres of park land. They eventually commended my actions, the park service also set up, and funded, a training program for my volunteers.

But this did not occur until after, a near fist fight with a crew boss, certain persons trying to have me arrested, and a public outcry. The Crew Boss decided to back off when it was realized my crew of ten was about to beat the shit out of him.

The park service at the time decided that protecting property rights trumped the federal governments right to protect the public land.

This will never again be the case, because most Americans have been asleep at the wheel.

The facts in this case have nothing to do with arson and everything to do with removing the Hammonds from a bunch of posy sniffers federal funded personal playground, property rights be damned.

Its really easy to arm chair this when it is not your property rights in the fight, but when its your property, and it will be someday, you'll remember this.
 
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Cool story, Will. Using threats of violence to get your way makes you a super badass American.

Actually using threats of violence against an unlawful primary threat of violence, is as American as it gets.

When I get home from this road trip, I may post the whole chronology of events that led to this confrontation, I may not, because those who support the nanny state and the socialist public lands argument have a presupposition and will defend themselves with their circular logic in spite of the facts and the constitution.

As I watch thousands of miles of public roads (state) closed to the public and more and more attacks on wheeling, ranching, mining, and water rights, I wonder how anyone on this thread can support the BLM and the Forest Service.

Within 2 years I expect the entire Arizona strip to be closed to wheeling, as well as the Grand Stair Case Escalante. Our access to ancient and established roads and trails gets smaller and smaller each year, and under the current BLM/FS plan, they will all be gone very soon.

As a side note, nothing I say here is either in support or non-support of the current occupation in Oregon. I support the Hammonds and careful review of the actual facts indicate that they did not in fact violate the law for which they have been tried, convicted and incarcerated for. I am neutral, but I also know, that our land and property rights are gone.
 
Cool story, Will. Using threats of violence to get your way makes you a super badass American.
you're correct. its actually what makes YOU an American as well.

you should be thanking someone for their choice to do violence in your favor...
 
Cool story, Will. Using threats of violence to get your way makes you a super badass American.

Heavens to besty, another solid condescending contribution. Keep up with the personal attacks as your platform for argument is collapsing. Your screen name is proving more and more accurate.
 
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I don't necessarily agree with the tactics of the militia folks but I do think they have some basis for being there in order to protest the government's actions. Evidently the Fish and Wildlife department bought up all the land around the Hammond's property to create a wildlife sanctuary and then took a number of retaliatory actions against them when they refused to sell. The first fire was a result of a planned burn on their property to reduce Juniper trees (for which they received permission). It burned 138 acres of unfenced federal land in 2001 but no BLM firefighters were needed to extinguish the fire. The second one alleged was 1 acre in 2006 with lightening induced fires burning all around. For that they're facing 5 years in Federal Prison (at least the son is). The dad apparently is facing 1 year. The feds already own more than 53% of the land in Oregon but that doesn't appear to be sufficient for them.

As far as I know, the land used to establish the refuge was purchased over 100 years ago, when both Hammond men were a twinkle in someone's eye.

I have also not heard of any "retaliatory actions" against the Hammonds. What you list as the first of those actions - the fire of 2001 - was actually an action that was taken by the Hammonds, to cover up the evidence of their deer poaching activities. That's very clear, as a jury of their peers convicted them at trial and a relative even testified against them.

Killing deer on a federal wildlife refuge without a license is a crime. In some jurisdictions - depending on the size of the deer/trophy status, the penalties are extremely high, especially out west.

Destroying the evidence of those crimes makes it even worse. And committing another crime (arson) in order to do so is simply icing on the cake. In my opinion, there's a reason why neither of the Hammonds were noted to be kicking and screaming while beginning their prison term.

They're actually lucky they weren't charged with false statements regarding their "we-were-just-trying-to-kill-the-invasive-plants" story.

I think we should all be thankful that the government owns 53% of the land in Oregon. That means it belongs to ALL of us and we can all enjoy it whenever we want.

Who do you think owns the rest? Cattle barons and ranchers who fence it all off, then charge outrageous usage fees to wealthy hunters from out of state. I guarantee that if that refuge was divvied up and handed out to the locals, today, that's exactly what would happen to the land.

Apologies to all if any of this has been pointed out, already - late to the thread and not enough time right now to read the rest of it!
 
I think we should all be thankful that the government owns 53% of the land in Oregon

You obviously neglected to peruse the chronological list of retaliatory actions taken by the BLM and Fish and Wildlife departments outlined in the link I provided in a later post that have negatively affected the private land owners in close proximity to the wildlife refuge. I, as do many others, think the federal government owns and controls far too much land in the western US. Over 84% in Nevada, 69% in Alaska, 57% in Utah, 53% in Oregon, 50% in Idaho, 48% in Arizona, 45% in California, 42% in Wyoming, 41% in New Mexico and 36% in Colorado that total 1,641,923 square miles. I think the people’s interests would be much better served if the states owned and controlled that acreage. If that were the case I doubt the abuses listed in the article I linked to would have occurred. But if you’re comfortable with the feds in Washington dictating how local acreage is utilized then good luck to you.
 
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OK, so school me.....if I graze my cattle on public land, it should be for free and legal?

Ah but you are forgetting they had rights to the land, but that is a whole other LEGAL issue(and we all know how honorable the justice system is now). So no I would disagree with your comment as I do not believe that is what is trying to be purveyed in this thread.
 
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