Need some help (multiple issues)

M

Morphyne

New member
Truck Facts: 2007 T4R 4WD V6 SR5 170,000 miles on suspension parts. Has newer Moog FJ springs and 5100s on them with about 55k on them.

Hey all, I am stumped. I recently replaced all the the rotors and pads on my t4r (two weekends ago). I also replaced one bad caliper on the driver's front. I bled the brakes and bed them in. All good. The next morning I heard a rotational popping on the drivers front under hard braking only.

Well, I thought it was a ball joint so I replaced the lower ball joints and the upper control arms (came of of an FJ with 3k on them) this past weekend. Now I have a different popping while making turns. Research says it make be the lower control arm bushings or the LCA bolt may need re-torqued. One thing I notices is how the UCAs sat when not attached and I may have torqued them on wrong. Also, I didn't really grease the ball joints as they appeared to be greased already. if I need to grease the lowers, no problem, they have zerks, but how do I grease the uppers?

PROBLEM 1: Popping under hard braking.
SOLUTION 1A: I am going to remove my brake pads and grease the backs and the pins. I never did this before but never had an issue. However, I have to rule out brake chatter.

SOLUTION 1B: I ordered new sway bar bushings and links. I will replace those this weekend and report back.

PROBLEM 2: Popping while turning:

Solution 2A: I will check the torque on the LCA bolts and re-torque as needed.

Solution 2B: I will loosen the UCA bolts and re-torque with the tires on and see if that makes a difference.


QUESTION 1: The UCA bolts seem like they would be well-served to be greased when reinstalling, but there was no grease on them. Can anyone offer an opinion why?

QUESTION 2: Can anyone offer any guidance to me on this issue?

Edit: found a pic of my brake job.
 
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A guy forgets a washer on his diff plug and he gets 416 veiws and 25 replies and I get nothin?

What'd I do? Call somebody's mother fat?
 
i had a similar noise and it went away when i got a new cv axle. get someone to drive up the street and take a listen and try to pinpoint exactly where it is coming from, this would be for problem 2
 
[MENTION=76583]Morphyne[/MENTION] a very in-depth top-down analysis of your findings; I do the same thing. you're a well respected name around here, so give if some time

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
This sounds like when my Lower Control Arm Bushings failed... at 170k miles, you gotta expect *some* suspension parts to go out.


Try crawling under your truck and pushing/ pulling on any suspension pieces. When I would essentially do a push-up on my LCA, it would pop the same noise that I was hearing from the cabin.

Also, look at any gaskets/seals/bushings for cracks. If any bushings have holes in them, they're probably full of dirt and need replacing.
 
As for greasing anything without zerks, they sell a needle attachment just stab it in there and grease away. You will get a little weaping out but it works 200,000 on my f-350 original ball joints!! If I am reading what you wrote correctly you didnt have this problem before you did the brake job? If so I would imagine it is something you did or defective parts you put on. Could also be a bushing but it could also be a problem with how the pads are sitting.
 
oldmansimek said:
As for greasing anything without zerks, they sell a needle attachment just stab it in there and grease away. You will get a little weaping out but it works 200,000 on my f-350 original ball joints!! If I am reading what you wrote correctly you didnt have this problem before you did the brake job? If so I would imagine it is something you did or defective parts you put on. Could also be a bushing but it could also be a problem with how the pads are sitting.
Click to expand...

Needle thingy is on its way. As for the brake job. That is what started this whole thing. It started the rotational popping under hard braking. Which lead to the ball joint replacements. Which resulted in pippin when turning at low speeds.
 
theMayor said:
This sounds like when my Lower Control Arm Bushings failed... at 170k miles, you gotta expect *some* suspension parts to go out.


Try crawling under your truck and pushing/ pulling on any suspension pieces. When I would essentially do a push-up on my LCA, it would pop the same noise that I was hearing from the cabin.

Also, look at any gaskets/seals/bushings for cracks. If any bushings have holes in them, they're probably full of dirt and need replacing.
Click to expand...

I was really hoping someone wouldn't mention those. That just does not sound like any fun. But you may be right.
 
blakem5 said:
i had a similar noise and it went away when i got a new cv axle. get someone to drive up the street and take a listen and try to pinpoint exactly where it is coming from, this would be for problem 2
Click to expand...

I thought of that but I am guessing not. They were replaced a year or two ago.
 
Morphyne said:
PROBLEM 1: Popping under hard braking.
SOLUTION 1A: I am going to remove my brake pads and grease the backs and the pins. I never did this before but never had an issue. However, I have to rule out brake chatter.

SOLUTION 1B: I ordered new sway bar bushings and links. I will replace those this weekend and report back.

PROBLEM 2: Popping while turning:

Solution 2A: I will check the torque on the LCA bolts and re-torque as needed.

Solution 2B: I will loosen the UCA bolts and re-torque with the tires on and see if that makes a difference.


QUESTION 1: The UCA bolts seem like they would be well-served to be greased when reinstalling, but there was no grease on them. Can anyone offer an opinion why?

QUESTION 2: Can anyone offer any guidance to me on this issue?
Click to expand...


Here's my two cents. We can't hear your pops or diagnose them remotely, we can all say throw this part or that part at it, "it fixed it for me" but really some good diagnosis will save you labor and money.

PROBLEM 1: Could be after market brake pads with holes too big for the pins, mine always click forward at first application when I stop. Power stop pads. Next time around I'll be getting something different, they stop great just annoying click that even doubling up the pad springs doesn't fix. As for sway bars, easy check is to remove it and try to replicate the noise.

PROBLEM 2: If your popping under braking sounds the same as popping on turning it's the same part. My LCA bushings popped under braking and then "unpopped" on hard accel. You can simulate this by putting a floor jack under your lower ball joint and lifting one all the way up, full compression, then jack under the frame and lifting tire off the ground, full droop. I was able to make my LCA bushings pop repeatably in the garage this way, targeting the problem. This will be easier with the sway bar disconnected. A 3+ foot pry bar is your friend in finding where the play is allowing a separation and pop, forcing each joint in every direction to see where it moves.

QUESTION 1: UCA's aren't really designed to flop around meaning the bushing shouldn't really be rotating loosely on the bolt that would make slop and be a "bad bushing". They clamp the bushing on either end and the rubber flexing soaks up small rotations while reluctantly sliding around the bolt takes up larger angles. The UCA should be able to hold itself up when torqued up and nothing else attached to it. Some grease wouldn't hurt for operation or removal again later on. These should be torqued at ride height 115Nm (85 ft/lbs) or "lug nut tight"

QUESTION 2: I don't know, did I?
 
I would also check to make sure the Caliper Bolts are tight. I had one loose and it made a popping noise when I would back up and stop and then when I would go forward. I also had a loose bolt on the steering rack from when I changed the intermediate shaft and that caused a pop when I would turn.
 
Morphyne said:
Truck Facts: 2007 T4R 4WD V6 SR5 170,000 miles on suspension parts. Has newer Moog FJ springs and 5100s on them with about 55k on them.

Hey all, I am stumped. I recently replaced all the the rotors and pads on my t4r (two weekends ago). I also replaced one bad caliper on the driver's front. I bled the brakes and bed them in. All good. The next morning I heard a rotational popping on the drivers front under hard braking only.

Well, I thought it was a ball joint so I replaced the lower ball joints and the upper control arms (came of of an FJ with 3k on them) this past weekend. Now I have a different popping while making turns. Research says it make be the lower control arm bushings or the LCA bolt may need re-torqued. One thing I notices is how the UCAs sat when not attached and I may have torqued them on wrong. Also, I didn't really grease the ball joints as they appeared to be greased already. if I need to grease the lowers, no problem, they have zerks, but how do I grease the uppers?

PROBLEM 1: Popping under hard braking.
SOLUTION 1A: I am going to remove my brake pads and grease the backs and the pins. I never did this before but never had an issue. However, I have to rule out brake chatter.

SOLUTION 1B: I ordered new sway bar bushings and links. I will replace those this weekend and report back.

PROBLEM 2: Popping while turning:

Solution 2A: I will check the torque on the LCA bolts and re-torque as needed.

Solution 2B: I will loosen the UCA bolts and re-torque with the tires on and see if that makes a difference.


QUESTION 1: The UCA bolts seem like they would be well-served to be greased when reinstalling, but there was no grease on them. Can anyone offer an opinion why?

QUESTION 2: Can anyone offer any guidance to me on this issue?
Click to expand...

So you did a brake job and did not bother to grease the backs of the pads or pins, which is a standard practice and included in many of the how-to's on this forum. This resulted in a new-to-you noise. The logical connection here is that the work you did somehow caused the noise to appear.

So instead of going back and investigating your work and what changes could have resulted in the new noise, you decided to swap out the lower ball joints and UCA's on a hunch and you now have even more noises. And you're mad that people on the forum didn't respond to your post quickly enough... GTFOH!

I'm just giving you a hard time, someone here's gotta point out the obvious. As suggested above, I would add grease to the backs of your pads and the slide pins. Torque your UCA bolts with the weight of the vehicle on the wheels/tires. And if you still have the noise check UCA and LCA bushings for play. In my experience, squeaks usually come with a failing ball joint.
 
sonerick said:
So you did a brake job and did not bother to grease the backs of the pads or pins, which is a standard practice and included in many of the how-to's on this forum. This resulted in a new-to-you noise. The logical connection here is that the work you did somehow caused the noise to appear.

So instead of going back and investigating your work and what changes could have resulted in the new noise, you decided to swap out the lower ball joints and UCA's on a hunch and you now have even more noises. And you're mad that people on the forum didn't respond to your post quickly enough... GTFOH!

I'm just giving you a hard time, someone here's gotta point out the obvious. As suggested above, I would add grease to the backs of your pads and the slide pins. Torque your UCA bolts with the weight of the vehicle on the wheels/tires. And if you still have the noise check UCA and LCA bushings for play. In my experience, squeaks usually come with a failing ball joint.
Click to expand...

Fair statement. I just have never needed to do it. I never made the connection that the front retaining pins are also slides. So it is very likely that the first noise is brake chatter. Which would be embarrassing to say the least. BUT...i still needed new ball joints...
 
DanielMaat89 said:
I would also check to make sure the Caliper Bolts are tight. I had one loose and it made a popping noise when I would back up and stop and then when I would go forward. I also had a loose bolt on the steering rack from when I changed the intermediate shaft and that caused a pop when I would turn.
Click to expand...

Very good point. already checked. I have that happen to me before. did some brake work and noticed a thumping sound when I was out of town. it was a loose caliper bolt. not fun.
 
blackoutt said:
Here's my two cents. We can't hear your pops or diagnose them remotely, we can all say throw this part or that part at it, "it fixed it for me" but really some good diagnosis will save you labor and money.


PROBLEM 2: If your popping under braking sounds the same as popping on turning it's the same part. My LCA bushings popped under braking and then "unpopped" on hard accel. You can simulate this by putting a floor jack under your lower ball joint and lifting one all the way up, full compression, then jack under the frame and lifting tire off the ground, full droop. I was able to make my LCA bushings pop repeatably in the garage this way, targeting the problem. This will be easier with the sway bar disconnected. A 3+ foot pry bar is your friend in finding where the play is allowing a separation and pop, forcing each joint in every direction to see where it moves.

Very cool! I will give this a try and report back.
Click to expand...
 
OH and also, yes add grease to your new greaseable ball joints! I always find them light for my liking. Somewhere in the 5-10 pumps range, you'll see the boot start to bulge out when it's getting full, a pump or two past that.
 
Ok so here are the answers. The suspension popping during backing, turning steering wheel, and whatnot was all created because I torqued the ucas on the vehicle with the spindle hanging. You need to have the tires on the vehicle and on the ground and ready go before you tighten those uca bolts.


As for as the rotational popping. It had been reducing in severity and reproducibility overy the week. But I replaced my sway bar bushings and end links anyway. I can still make it thump. But it is very much reduced and honestly down to the point where I just don't care.

Effort: retorqued uca bolts, greased front brake pads and retaining pins, replaced and greased all connection points on sway bar.

Edit: I tried to grease my ball joints but even though I oriented the lbjs in the best possible orientation I could latch on. But I still got a few pumps in.
 
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Ok, well apparently my issue is back. popping when backing and low speeds in the parking lot.

It's only the drivers side. Tie-rod maybe? I don't want to do the lower control arm bushings if I can help it. But since I already replaced: UCAs, LBJs, sway bar bushings and links. So the only things I have left is tie-rods, LCA bushings and then its on to the steering rack?
 
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