New Front Calipers Rusty

[mchestnut]

So -

My front brake assembly was shot (verified by 3 different sources), and I replaced via a local garage that I have developed a great relationship with over the years. Unfortunately I'm not god's gift to mechanics, so even though I understand this job to be pretty straightforward I had the shop do it. The whole brakes and life safety thing...

Anyway - I'm 2-3 months post replacement and experiencing the following, and wanted to run this by you guys. I've had the runner back to the shop twice to look at these specific items, and they find no issues. But I'm having a hard time settling on that answer:


1. Both front calipers quickly rusted, see attached pic. Looks pretty bad and sticks out like a sore thumb when looking at the vehicle which is otherwise in new condition. Looked great/normal initially, but then went downhill quickly. Shop claims this to be normal as the calipers do not have the zinc anti rust coating to prevent this.

2. Brake dust - the pads are kicking out a high level of brake dust that cover the wheels in about a week. Did not previously have that problem. Shop says they installed pads 'with more semi-metallic formation' vs. a softer pad. They offered to swap out to a softer pad but recommend the metallic pad.

3. Braking is uneven - vehicle is noticeably braking unevenly. As I approach stops something is catching and releasing continuously until the vehicle comes to a stop. Its not a crazy experience, just noticeable. It is noticeable worse when raining/wet, nonexistent when dry. Shop says they can find nothing wrong.

4. Brakes screech/squeak loudly braking in either direction (forward or reverse), its the same sound that a pad makes when its expired. Also noticeably worse when raining/wet. Even more concerning is that the front end randomly screeches without braking - for example we were driving through a neighborhood last weekend on the way to dinner with friends and it was just screeching. It would stop when I tapped the brakes, and then start again for no apparent reason. Shop says they can find nothing wrong. To their credit, the unexplainable sudden screeching comes and goes without any way to predict when/why.


There's the full enchilada. Let me know what you guys think, thanks in advance.

 

[AuSeeker]

The only way to keep the calipers looking good and not rusting is to have them painted with high temperature paint, some people use black "grill" paint
but they make special caliper paint for painting them in just about any color you could want.

Not sure what to tell you about the pulsing/grabbing of the brakes, could be warped rotors or the rotors could have dirty/grease spots on them,
without seeing/checking them in person hard to say.

Many but not all metallic pads can make the squeaking even though they're new, you probably want be able to cure that short of replacing the pads
with another type, same with the dust.

If the 4Runner had OEM pads on it before replacing them and you liked the way they functioned, I highly recommend using OEM pads again.

 

[Slowgoat]

Yeah, they needed to be painted. Kind of annoying. I went through the same thing.

Search my posts and you can find me painting my calipers on the runner. Not easy, but a good weekend project. If you're handy you definitely can pull it off!

Could be a number of install mistakes causing this, and the easiest and free thing to do is to "bed in" your brakes.

You sound like that's what is going on.

Short of taking everything apart and inspecting them, that's a start. And I bet it'll work.

People talk about "warped" rotors. What happens a lot of times is some of the pad material gets stuck on a part of the rotor. Then as the wheel turns, and you brake, when the pad hits that high spot, it grips better, then hits a low spot, it grips less. Then you get pulsation.

You can have more grip right to left and it'll pull a bit.

Or that pulling could be a trapped air bubble in the brake line. Then you need to bleed your brakes.

If your brake pedal feels "mushy" after a bleed or caliper install there is a crazy procedure that is hard to explain. I'll shoot you a link if that is what's happening but do this first:

Did they talk about "bedding in" the brakes? Most shops skip it.

This link gives great info about every brands bedding in procedure:

Bedding in brakes by brand

1. Get brakes smoking hot, either by dragging them or slowing down rapidly bunch of times (not full stops, notice?).

2. Let them cool off.

If you come to a complete stop when they are still hot, you'll get a stamped impression of the brake pad on the rotor. That's where that pulsation/wobbly rotor deal comes from.

Good luck. Crap like this is why I do my own brake work.

BTW: I use semimetallic Akebono pads. $50 or so. Supposedly they make Toyota OEM pads.

 

[Slowgoat]

Just reread your post. I'm not liking the screeching. Odd. And even weirder that they couldn't find anything. Is this a reputable shop? Red flag there.

 

[AuSeeker]

Just to clarify what Slowgoat meant when he stated to let the brakes cool off after bedding them, this needs to be done by driving for a while (10 to 15 minutes)
and not using the brakes if possible, hence his last statement of not stopping if possible while the brakes are hot.

 

[Slowgoat]

Thanks [MENTION=149207]AuSeeker[/MENTION]!

Post #24 on a thread commented on today talks about this exact issue:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/213833-replacement-brake-options-2.html

 

[Beaumont67]

mchestnut - I suspect your garage did somewhat of a shitty brake job (taking short cuts) and used the cheapest of parts.
That is why I source my own premium parts & save huge garage markup / and just pay for the labor, to install.
- I even ask for the top mechanic by name, when booking job / no junior-apprentice or flunky, works on my vehicles
I control the Process, at the garage...always.

I once bought a used Volvo v70 wagon, that had new brake pads for safety check.
- and they throw off a lot of break dust
- I could clean the alloy rims 2-3/week / a real PITA
When next brake job was due, I ordered the Life Time warranty pads, from NAPA/UAP.
- from their pro line, semi-ceramic I believe
- now I'm clean the alloy rims 1/month / the brake dust is light

^^ Moral of the story:
OP - Your garage probably put on the inexpensive China "White Box" brand (1 year pads) / and may have charged you dearly ($$)
For all my break needs now, all I source is "ELITE xDS Series Kit"
Select Your Brake Kits
Got them on the wife's v6 RAV4 - alloy rim cleaning is once every few months.

My mechanic uses an expensive ceramic paste to lube Caliper pins & stainless steel shims (on pads).
- some garages don't give these two critical steps, enough attention
CeramAce is a high-temperature fitting and release anti-seize paste containing more than 30 percent solid ceramic base.
- Waterproof and resistant to salt water, acids and alkalis, the paste protects against corrosion and does not get gummy.
IGRALUB LUBRICANTS http://www.autosphere.ca/carcarebus...1/igralub-lubricants-cermacace-carbonlub-bss/

Finally, new pads & rotors need a proper 15-20 minute break-in.
- no set procedure / so read up on Brake Supplier web site
- I probably did 10 panic stops, at 60-70 mph & several slow downs, at half speed / and wife's brakes, perform perfect

 

[SaltyTan]

mchestnut-
I experienced this exact same problem. I had a front right caliper seize up on me while driving. The whole car was shaking driving down the road. Took it directly to a shop and they showed me the worn pad and caliper and I had to replace the front calipers, rotors, and pads totaling $800.
Within a month the calipers started rusting and I contacted the shop I had them done at, and was told that's what happens and I needed to paint them and that they don't do it. Fast forward a year and I have bright orange rusted calipers, which I decide to paint myself using high temp caliper paint. A month later and the front right caliper seized again. Called the shop and they said because I painted the calipers, paint most likely got in the piston and caused the seize, resulting in the shop not covering the warranty. I contacted the owner of the shop explaining the situation and he said his tech spoke incorrectly and they do paint calipers and he would honor the warranty. Although, I took it to another shop and had a complete front an rear brake job done (kept old rear calipers) totaling $1200. The shop put different color rotors on the front and back because they didn't have 4 of the same in stock; didn't look awesome, but not the end of the world. I asked if the calipers would rust and they said yes, but not as bad as the ones I had before. Fast forward a couple months and the rust is beginning to show like the previous calipers I had. The original calipers on the back still look great with no rust. My vehicle has had some vibrations in the steering wheel, now starts to squeal when the brakes are applied and haven't felt like the brakes have ever worked well. My gas mileage is low and seems to act like something is grabbing or seizing again. I had them put Aekebono pads on, so I thought I was safe. Maybe they put on bad rotors that warped.

I'm taking it back into the shop to have them look at them, but I may go with another route and look into getting the 5th gen calipers and replace the brakes lines to stainless steel and avoid this problem moving forward. Or maybe I'll sell it and get a newer model as I'm tired of dealing with these brakes.

 

[That_Titanium_4RNR]

mchestnut-
I experienced this exact same problem. I had a front right caliper seize up on me while driving. The whole car was shaking driving down the road. Took it directly to a shop and they showed me the worn pad and caliper and I had to replace the front calipers, rotors, and pads totaling $800.
Within a month the calipers started rusting and I contacted the shop I had them done at, and was told that's what happens and I needed to paint them and that they don't do it. Fast forward a year and I have bright orange rusted calipers, which I decide to paint myself using high temp caliper paint. A month later and the front right caliper seized again. Called the shop and they said because I painted the calipers, paint most likely got in the piston and caused the seize, resulting in the shop not covering the warranty. I contacted the owner of the shop explaining the situation and he said his tech spoke incorrectly and they do paint calipers and he would honor the warranty. Although, I took it to another shop and had a complete front an rear brake job done (kept old rear calipers) totaling $1200. The shop put different color rotors on the front and back because they didn't have 4 of the same in stock; didn't look awesome, but not the end of the world. I asked if the calipers would rust and they said yes, but not as bad as the ones I had before. Fast forward a couple months and the rust is beginning to show like the previous rotors I had. The original calipers on the back still look great with no rust. My vehicle has had some vibrations in the steering wheel, now starts to squeal when the brakes are applied and haven't felt like the brakes have ever worked well. My gas mileage is low and seems to act like something is grabbing or seizing again. I had them put Aekebono pads on, so I thought I was safe. Maybe they put on bad rotors that warped.

I'm taking it back into the shop to have them look at them, but I may go with another route and look into getting the 5th gen calipers and replace the brakes lines to stainless steel and avoid this problem moving forward. Or maybe I'll sell it and get a newer model as I'm tired of dealing with these brakes.

Or you could learn how to replace your own brakes and then you won't have to keep dumping a ton of money and having bad experiences.

 

[inscarguy]

Correct me if im wrong but dont our 4runners require ceramic pads vs semi metallic? At least that's what i have read and told by toyota techs.