New power plant?
- Thread starter itr1275
- Start date
- Status
Blackwatch
New member
Maybe the detuned 3.44 tt that is in the Tundra SR? About 340 HP that way there's a separation between the GX and LX. The 4runner TRD Pro might see a better engine than the rest but given Toyota's boring nature I'm betting on the 2.4 turbo for all 4runners and a hybrid GX.
SoCalDriver
New member
There has not been any official confirmation from Toyota on the motor, or anything at this point. It’s far from a “foregone conclusion.” I’m not ready to give up!
If Toyota can reduce the weight of the 4Runner when it moves to TNGA-F, that may help — especially if they add a hybrid option and any weight loss is able to offset the battery.
If you asked me 7 years ago when I bought my 4Runner if I’d ever consider a 4-cylinder engine, I would have laughed. Now, I’m probably only going to consider a 6th-gen 4Runner if it’s available as a hybrid or PHEV. Granted, I’m probably not the typical 4Runner owner, and my priorities are different, so YMMV of course.
If you asked me 7 years ago when I bought my 4Runner if I’d ever consider a 4-cylinder engine, I would have laughed. Now, I’m probably only going to consider a 6th-gen 4Runner if it’s available as a hybrid or PHEV. Granted, I’m probably not the typical 4Runner owner, and my priorities are different, so YMMV of course.
Jetboy
New member
Well - looks like tundra hybrid is a bit of a flop. At $3500 for 1mpg improvement and 500lbs plus loss of storage. I was pretty positive about a hybrid option. But it'll probably be the same as the tundra. I'd rather not have it. It's a dog. I'm not sure how Toyota's project team did so poorly on this one. I'm not super optimistic about a hybrid option being very useful after the tundra.
rdruss
Senior Member
The 2.4T may be the way for serious off roaders, the V6TT has very complex cooling and intake systems, etc. and probably part of the reason seeing overheating in Dubai. They have coolers on top of coolers and operating at sustained load in 100F temps is going to show up any weakness. The 2.4T should be a lot less complex and therefore more reliable. If you are on road only like i am then a V6TT would be fine, except I don't like the complexity no matter what, way too many thing$ to go wrong and it doe$n't look like a DIY package to me!
Jetboy
New member
Where are you seeing reports of overheating? I've searched and can't find anything that shows anyone actually having an overheating issue. But maybe I'm looking in the wrong places?
Blackwatch
New member
I would love to know how reliable overall the new 4Runner will be with the 2.4 turbo. As far as I know it has been in service for a few months. aLso, will it have less horsepower and torque if it is tuned to run on regular gas. The Lexus 2.4 t is a premium fuel setup. Can't see that being popular in the 4Runners.
Not sure if you've ever driven a hybrid or a full electric vehicle. However, that instant torque from an electric motor cannot be reproduced by ICE. I do agree though, the gas mileage improvements were an after thought. It would have required equipping the vehicle with a much larger ev battery. Effectively increasing the curb weight and reducing even more storage.
Jetboy
New member
Driven many of them. Some are better than others. In a truck I DGAF about the difference between 6.86 and 7.02 seconds 0-60. In a car - maybe there's some value if the car is slow otherwise. The extra weight is a hindrance off-road towing, and hauling if it can't help with the go part. The instant torque is a low value addition in this case because the battery is too small. It's trading 12% more power for 8% more weight. That's why the acceleration difference is almost non-existent.
A 10kWh lithium pack would cost about $1k in battery costs. Would add 300ish lbs over the 1.9 kWh nimh. But it also would be capable of adding 40hp for 15 minutes continuously. About the same as 1 gallon of gas. So every big hill up and down you'd save a gallon of fuel. That starts to be worth the weight and storage penalty. Current battery gets you 90 seconds.
rdruss
Senior Member
I haven't seen the reports, was echoing what a previous post said. Maybe I should have checked for myself, as it could be false or overstated, my bad!
Jetboy
New member
It might happen. I have no idea. I just haven't been able to find any examples. There's an Australian reviewer who speculates that the new diesel with a hot v design is going to overheat, but he's never actually driven one from what I can tell. That's the closest I can find. I'm kinda fluent in Australian but I don't speak Arabic so I thought maybe there was a well known issue just not in English speaking countries.
Gas mileage definitely wasn’t a priority. I’m pretty sure that’s also why there’s no explicit “hybrid” branding on the Tundra (other than the blue Toyota logo).
Toyota did the opposite with the 4th gen Highlander Hybrid — they went with less power than the ICE version, but significantly better fuel economy. Different from the 3rd gen Highlander Hybrid, which was more powerful than the ICE version but with only marginally better fuel economy — it didn’t sell well. So it’s interesting to see the approach back with the Tundra.
Toyota ruined the highlander for anyone but flatlanders. We have the same engine in my wife's Rav4 and while its fun driving around the city, it's screaming going over mountain passes. The highlander weighs over 800 lbs more than the Rav4 but they stuck the same engine in it. WTAF?
Thebeastlives
New member
Not sure why someone who doesn't use a full size truck to do truck stuff would say the hybrid 2022 Tundra is a flop? Why because it doesn't get 30 mpg like some pos Pruis? A truck needs lots of torque to tow heavy 10k plus loads and that is what a hybrid tundra has. Toyota built it to have plenty of power to tow and manage those heavy loads and still get decent mpg doing it. Towing heavy loads it does it better than any other half ton and gets better mpg doing it. Using my neighbors non hybrid 2022 tundra to tow my 10k enclosed trailer it destroys my 08 Tundra in every measurable category. The hybrid beats the non hybrid towing especially when you need and want that 100 lbs of extra torque it has. If you use your truck to tow and you want significant more power and improve mpg doing it get the hybrid. If you want a high mpg vehicle buy a Prius because you can't have both.
Jetboy
New member
I occasionally use full size trucks to do truck things. I had a diesel F250 until November of last year that I used pretty much only for towing and hauling. It's not a good daily driver. I'll buy another truck in the next few months once I start needing to tow heavier stuff again. Was planning on a tundra. Not sure now given the relatively weak effort from Toyota. It's just kinda meh. The turbo failures are not confidence inspiring, nor is Toyota's response so far. Toyota needs to get out in front of this and they're not doing a very good job so far. So I'm still on the fence. It's certainly not the "world beater" I was expecting. I thought at a minimum it would match the current domestic trucks on payload and towing. The F150 can come configured for a 5th wheel and be rated for 14k lbs.
The issue with tundra is that it's effectively built to 3/4 ton specs in most areas - engine output, transmission, axle size, brakes, steering and suspension components, etc. But they put spring rates like a 4Runner on it (IIRC the 2nd gen tundra has lower spring rates than the 4R - and lower payload). So the base vehicle could probably tow and haul a lot more than it's rated for, but Toyota doesn't seem to be all that interested in targeting towing or hauling big stuff.
The new tundra unfortunately isn't really setup for towing heavy trailers like a backhoe or even larger dump trailer, so it's not really a good replacement for my F250. I'm okay with that. I can borrow an HD truck when I need to move the backhoe or just drive it up to my property on the backroads. I don't know yet if a 5th wheel hitch is even an option for the new Tundra. If you wanted to tow heavy stuff, the hybrid's weight is likely a problem especially for using a 5th wheel that requires higher truck load capacity. Hybrid has a larger rear axle, but lower payload.
The hybrid system adds 12% more power (in short bursts) for an 8% weight penalty. It offers 1mpg net benefit over the non-hybrid. And the battery is too small to offer any meaningful assistance towing up long grades where that higher output number on paper would be most useful if it were capable of delivering it. It can deliver 40hp for about 60-90 seconds. Considering the relatively low tow capacity, it's not meaningfully different than the base TTv6 for towing the kinds of trailers a tundra is rated to pull. It's around 0.2 seconds faster 0-60 empty. I'd guess it'll be pretty comparable difference with a trailer. And highway towing it presumably offers zero mpg benefits. We'll need to see a side by side test to know for sure. It has no mpg highway improvement in the EPA cycle empty. On a long grade the hybrid will perform worse than the non-hybrid in most cases. Once the battery is depleted after roughly the first mile it's now an extra 500lbs of dead weight to haul up the rest of the hill.
For a fraction of a second 0-60 the extra hp is probably pretty nice to have. I'm sure it pulls better in a drag race by a fraction of a second. But with even the heaviest trailer it can tow, an extra 12% of power will be pretty meaningless for real world use. It just can't pull enough trailer to put you in any scenario where you'd need 437hp vs 380 to get up to speed. With 20k lbs behind a diesel HD truck? Sure, there are times I need everything she's got. Even then it's very rate to go full WOT. But only 10k lbs? I can't think of any time I'd need WOT to get up to speed with a 10k lb trailer and the base TTV6.
I think the turbo 6 makes a big improvement in power delivery over the outgoing 5.7. It's a lot more powerful at lower rpms, has a modern transmission behind it, and at least on paper is significantly more fuel efficient. But the hybrid is disappointing because it could have been so much better with a bigger battery. It could have actually pulled like a diesel out on the highway. It could have had an inverter to power your camp. It could have had enough power (with more battery) to do things like ford rivers in EV mode so you don't ever need a snorkel for water crossings. It could have been offered with an add-on battery pack for the bed to make effectively a convertible PHEV option. There's a whole world of possibilities that Toyota could have looked at if it wanted to innovate rather than offer the bare minimum it could get away with still calling a "hybrid".
Last edited:
- Status
